TC Report Day 8

[mbrg]

 

 

 

 

Who should be there than TBurg than? Who should not?

Not my call. Haven't been to camp to see them. Don't have access to the meetings, film, etc. Coaches make those decisions.

Coaches make the decisions and you criticize those decisions even though you don't have access to practices, meetings, film, etc.

The old 'the coaches know more than anyone else' argument. Bomber coaches have crafted 1 winning season since 2008, or 1 in the last 7 seasons, so I don't feel bad about not blindly accepting their decisions. If they can eek out some better records, then I'd put more trust in their decisions.

Where did I say that? You are arguing using circle logic. You say you can't say who should play because you haven't been to TC, etc yet you feel qualified to criticize who will be playing even though you haven't been to TC, etc. You're criticizing for the sake of criticizing.

 

 

You think?

 

To be fair, I don't think you should accuse him of using any kind of logic.

 

It's quite masterful to be able to dig your heels into nothing.

[bearpants]

I think the word "bromance" needs to be permanently retired...

[mbrg]

I think the word "bromance" needs to be permanently retired...

 

Way ahead of you.  Retired unused.

 

Can I nominate "being proactive"?

[GCn20]

 

 

 

 

If the opposing defence plays contain, they'll have to commit more players to the LOS.  That should open up receivers downfield.  The key is finding them and getting the ball to them.  Can Marve do that?  Don't know for sure yet, but he certainly has the arm for it.  

 

You want to compare Marve to Printers who looked like a world beater in Wally's offense which got him an NFL shot.  Marve's no where near that yet.  I'd compare him more to Reilly when he was in BC.  Not ready yet, but I've seen a spark that makes me want to see more.

The point is that when he looked good the book wasn't out on Printers yet and teams didn't play to just keep him in the pocket. Once he came back and people knew what he was about they took away his legs and he couldn't beat them with his arm. We simply don't know if Marve can do that yet. Being able to scramble and run is a good asset for a qb to have, but they still need to be able to pass from the pocket first and foremost. 

 

Agree to disagree.  There's more than one way to be a good QB.  If you're a Ricky Ray type, that's from the pocket.  If you're a Flutie or Reilly type then it's from moving the pocket around and using your legs when needed.

 

Printers had a great year, went to the NFL, wasn't the same when he came back.  He turned out to be a one trick pony.  His biggest problem wasn't throwing from the pocket, it was that he wasn't the brightest bulb in the box and his team wouldn't go the extra mile for him.

 

Marve's had less than 60 minutes of playing time behind a horrid O line.  Of course we don't know if he can pass from the pocket yet. Being a pocket passer is a good asset to have, but it's not the be all and end all of playing QB.

 

You still fail to grasp the point. Flutie and Reilly could and also can pass from the pocket so keeping them there really doesn't limit how effective they can be. That's what makes them so dangerous, they can hurt you any which way you like. Same deal with Burris or Durant currently. Can you name a qb that was effective who wasn't able to pass from the pocket but could run? They usually have a good stretch and then get figured out. There is more than one way to be a qb, but a qb that can't pass from the spot where qbs spend most of their time is a guy that won't be any good. 

 

 

What in the less than a game of playing time behind a horrid O line makes you think that Marve's one dimensional and can't throw from the pocket?  

 

 

 

I think Marve will be more than capable of passing from the pocket. However, after watching both his performances and reviewing them a couple nights ago, it became pretty clear that he missed reads and had happy feet at times. When a QB never sets his feet on drop back, it is a pretty clear indicator he is not comfortable with one of two things....contact or his knowledge of the offence. Go back watch the film. It's there. The proof is in the pudding. No one is criticizing him for the play breakdowns where it was on the offensive line. However, one thing after reviewing his performances became abundantly clear, he went into scramble mode at times he was well protected in the pocket.

I have no doubt that IF he can learn to set his feet, feel comfortable in the pocket, and make his reads that he could be a very good QB in this league. I, also, have no doubt that if he doesn't he will never have success.

Scramble ability is a great asset for a QB to have but alone a QB can't have success. This isn't sandlot football. The more broken plays that happen, the more chance for turnover and the less chance for success. Might as well throw the playbook out the window if a QB is going to go sandlot every 2nd play.

[Brandon]

At least Marve has a strong arm.. It killed me watching guys like Brink, Dinwiddie, Hall struggle to make any throws over 15 yards all while being slow as hell.

[bryan35]

At least Marve has a strong arm.. It killed me watching guys like Brink, Dinwiddie, Hall struggle to make any throws over 15 yards all while being slow as hell.

 

Ya I preffered watching Mickael Bishop.

[Brandon]

At least Marve has a strong arm.. It killed me watching guys like Brink, Dinwiddie, Hall struggle to make any throws over 15 yards all while being slow as hell.

Ya I preffered watching Mickael Bishop.

He won more then those guys did despite coming in with no training camp!

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

At least Marve has a strong arm.. It killed me watching guys like Brink, Dinwiddie, Hall struggle to make any throws over 15 yards all while being slow as hell.

Ya I preffered watching Mickael Bishop.

He won more then those guys did despite coming in with no training camp!

 

 

Look at who he won against though.  2009 was the year Count Chocula was coaching Toronto, so that was a gimme on the bingo card.  And he won a nothing game at the end of the year when Montreal played their water boys.

[Y2C]

Hey, that game against the Argos was the last Bomber road game I attended and will always have a special place in my heart. Yes it was a terrible football game, but if you recall it was far better than the sad state of affairs the week before between the teams at Canad Inns.

 

Great stuff.

 

[johnzo]

Bishop beat every team in the league in 2009 except for Saskatchewan and Calgary.

(We beat Calgary that year, but it was a LeFors victory)

And his win against Montreal was a beauty. Bomb after bomb after bomb. 411 yards on just 17 completions. And it wasn't a nothing game, that win kept us in playoff contention for another week.

I often wonder what the history of the Bombers would have been if Kelly had won the Boat Bowl against the TiCats...

[JuranBoldenRules]

At least Marve has a strong arm.. It killed me watching guys like Brink, Dinwiddie, Hall struggle to make any throws over 15 yards all while being slow as hell.

 

Marve was skipping passes all over the place tonight.  Doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you can't settle your feet down.  Major happy feet, needs a ton of work to be a CFL QB.  He's closer to Alex Brink in 2010 than Michael Bishop.

[Adrenaline_x]

Bishop did amazingly well considering the circus that was Mike kelly that year.. And missing training camp and coming in during the season,

 

[SPuDS]

Yes but bishop was essentially a throwing machine on a go kart with a heart beat.. Athletic as all hell but football sense of a hockey goon..

[johnzo]

Yes but bishop was essentially a throwing machine on a go kart with a heart beat.. Athletic as all hell but football sense of a hockey goon..

For all his faults, he was better than just about every other quarterback we've rolled out since.

Only recent Bomber QBs I'd take over Bishop would be first-half-of-2014 Drew Willy or the 2010 model of Buck Pierce, before he wrecked his elbow.

[rebusrankin]

I was at the Argo/Bomber game in 09 too. When Medlock hit the uprights on the field goal, I yelled in excitement and am pretty sure you could hear it all around the stadium as it echoed.

[SPuDS]

Yes but bishop was essentially a throwing machine on a go kart with a heart beat.. Athletic as all hell but football sense of a hockey goon..

For all his faults, he was better than just about every other quarterback we've rolled out since.

Only recent Bomber QBs I'd take over Bishop would be first-half-of-2014 Drew Willy or the 2010 model of Buck Pierce, before he wrecked his elbow.

Yea I agree.. But speaks more to the deplorable situation we had finding QB and QB prospects more so then his talents..

I didn't mind him when he was a bomber to be honest, I was just waiting for smart DCs to scheme him to death. He was a beast and you know you were in the game when he was in unlike many others before and after him..

[Fatty Liver]

Oops wrong thread.

[Adrenaline_x]

Yes but bishop was essentially a throwing machine on a go kart with a heart beat.. Athletic as all hell but football sense of a hockey goon..

disagree

 

He was mobile, and read defences better than some, but his accuracy was less then desired.

[SPuDS]

Yes but bishop was essentially a throwing machine on a go kart with a heart beat.. Athletic as all hell but football sense of a hockey goon..

disagree

 

He was mobile, and read defences better than some, but his accuracy was less then desired.

Go karts are essentially cars.. And are pretty mobile too..

His defensive reading skills tho... Negative.

[do or die]

Well, Mike Bishop looked like a million bucks.... every 4-5 games or so.....

[17to85]

Bishop threw the ball deep and eventually someone caught it for a big play. Guy was a terrible qb I don't care how many ill gotten wins he had. 

[Brandon]

Bishop threw the ball deep and eventually someone caught it for a big play. Guy was a terrible qb I don't care how many ill gotten wins he had. 

 

Much more then Goltz, Elliott, Hall, Brink, Boltus, Dinwiddie had combined......

[Atomic]

If we had kept Bishop after 2009 until 2013 we would have had a lot more wins in that timespan

[do or die]

I advocated getting rid of Bishop, so we could develop the young QB's.   Correct in theory, but we were so lousy in finding, evaluating and developing young QB's....that it became a bit of a moot point.

 

But, none of this meant Bishop was a good QB....

[dmillerywg]

 

 

 

 

 

If the opposing defence plays contain, they'll have to commit more players to the LOS.  That should open up receivers downfield.  The key is finding them and getting the ball to them.  Can Marve do that?  Don't know for sure yet, but he certainly has the arm for it.  

 

You want to compare Marve to Printers who looked like a world beater in Wally's offense which got him an NFL shot.  Marve's no where near that yet.  I'd compare him more to Reilly when he was in BC.  Not ready yet, but I've seen a spark that makes me want to see more.

The point is that when he looked good the book wasn't out on Printers yet and teams didn't play to just keep him in the pocket. Once he came back and people knew what he was about they took away his legs and he couldn't beat them with his arm. We simply don't know if Marve can do that yet. Being able to scramble and run is a good asset for a qb to have, but they still need to be able to pass from the pocket first and foremost. 

 

Agree to disagree.  There's more than one way to be a good QB.  If you're a Ricky Ray type, that's from the pocket.  If you're a Flutie or Reilly type then it's from moving the pocket around and using your legs when needed.

 

Printers had a great year, went to the NFL, wasn't the same when he came back.  He turned out to be a one trick pony.  His biggest problem wasn't throwing from the pocket, it was that he wasn't the brightest bulb in the box and his team wouldn't go the extra mile for him.

 

Marve's had less than 60 minutes of playing time behind a horrid O line.  Of course we don't know if he can pass from the pocket yet. Being a pocket passer is a good asset to have, but it's not the be all and end all of playing QB.

 

You still fail to grasp the point. Flutie and Reilly could and also can pass from the pocket so keeping them there really doesn't limit how effective they can be. That's what makes them so dangerous, they can hurt you any which way you like. Same deal with Burris or Durant currently. Can you name a qb that was effective who wasn't able to pass from the pocket but could run? They usually have a good stretch and then get figured out. There is more than one way to be a qb, but a qb that can't pass from the spot where qbs spend most of their time is a guy that won't be any good. 

 

 

What in the less than a game of playing time behind a horrid O line makes you think that Marve's one dimensional and can't throw from the pocket?  

 

 

 

I think Marve will be more than capable of passing from the pocket. However, after watching both his performances and reviewing them a couple nights ago, it became pretty clear that he missed reads and had happy feet at times. When a QB never sets his feet on drop back, it is a pretty clear indicator he is not comfortable with one of two things....contact or his knowledge of the offence. Go back watch the film. It's there. The proof is in the pudding. No one is criticizing him for the play breakdowns where it was on the offensive line. However, one thing after reviewing his performances became abundantly clear, he went into scramble mode at times he was well protected in the pocket.

I have no doubt that IF he can learn to set his feet, feel comfortable in the pocket, and make his reads that he could be a very good QB in this league. I, also, have no doubt that if he doesn't he will never have success.

Scramble ability is a great asset for a QB to have but alone a QB can't have success. This isn't sandlot football. The more broken plays that happen, the more chance for turnover and the less chance for success. Might as well throw the playbook out the window if a QB is going to go sandlot every 2nd play.

 

Did Marve miss read yes however every QB misses reads at times...

And Willy missed many reads and had happy feet at times in the the second half of 2014 why not just be happy that Marve can move the team and put point on the board ?