Politics (Split Thread)

[RagingIce]

 

 

 

Hopefully the NDP win federally. This country needs a shakup. We've been stagnating for the past 20 years.

 

What the hell does that even mean?  Canada has been leading the world in economic growth consistently and are one of the best countries in the world to live in.  If that's stagnation I'll take it.  Go travel the world a bit and come back, and you'll appreciate what we have a lot more.  Have a look at those idiots in the EU, trying to prop up those lazy commies in Greece.  Now THAT"s stagnation.

 

Perhaps be a tad less patronizing? You don't know what I've done or experienced.

 

The economy isn't the be all and end all (and we're nothing special in that regard) - we're stagnating in social progress, environmental progress and healthcare among other things. I didn't say Canada is a bad country to live in.

Raginice, your the one that that brought up the economy. What I have said is who I would vote for. Does that bother you that it's not the NDP? Does it bother you that I'm doing better under this government than any other?

You are welcome to join any organization you want, have them tell you how to vote. I'm voting with my conscience.

 

 

No, actually KBF is the one that brought up the economy. I don't care who you vote for or how successful you are.

[RagingIce]

Oh please not this nonsense. Worst talking point ever. I ain't talking about balancing budgets which is all you are referring to because quite frankly simply balancing the budget isn't what I'm looking for out of a government. I want a balanced budget WITHOUT having to tax more to do it. I want the government stream lined and cuts made AND a lower tax burden on us the tax payers. I am not interested in having my finances raided just so the idealists in the NDP can fund whatever half baked program pops into their head. Being highly taxed stagnates an country. There is a reason why both the Conservatives and Liberals agree that taxing people isn't the solution to the country and are in favour of lower taxes for the most part. Promotes investment in the country and if people have more money in their pockets at the end of the day they have more to spend which keeps the economy going. The NDP would have us all be utterly dependent on the government for everything. 

 

 

 

 

Taxes aren't objectively bad - just because you don't want tax doesn't make the NDP bad fiscal managers. Your post is full of right wing talking points that aren't backed up by any evidence. You should examine your preconceptions more critically.

 

Just look to the Nordic countries for what a higher level of taxation can do for a country. Norway has a huge heritage fund that they created by responsibly regulating the oil industry (taxation) that Alberta could learn a thing or two from. Norway also has one of the best health care systems in the world. All of them have made far more progress on environmental issues than Canada has. No one would argue that they are stagnant.

[rebusrankin]

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

 

What innovative product or dynamic company has Norway produced?

[Atomic]

Norway is a physically tiny country with what, 6 million people? Doesn't seem like a great comparison to me.

[kelownabomberfan]

Just look to the Nordic countries for what a higher level of taxation can do for a country. Norway has a huge heritage fund that they created by responsibly regulating the oil industry (taxation) that Alberta could learn a thing or two from. Norway also has one of the best health care systems in the world. All of them have made far more progress on environmental issues than Canada has.

LOL. How did I know that Norway would creep back into the discussion. Every socialist wet dream begins and ends with Norway. Their high taxes suck.

 

No one would argue that they are stagnant.

For example, when a childhood friend goes from rags to riches, people often feel extreme envy and reflect negatively on their own comparative lack of success.

Norway has created a system that makes it virtually impossible to pull ahead of your peers financially. People are excused for not working hard and squandering the opportunities they could have grabbed.

Everyone is the same status, and such equality imbues a unique socialist variety of happiness.

This attitude has been deeply inculcated in Norwegian society through what’s known as Jante Law; this is an informal dictate which essentially says ‘You’re only as good as everyone else.’

Consequently, Norwegian culture limits aspirations of achievement. Workers come to the office, punch a clock, shuffle papers, and go home. There is no cultural drive to work hard and get promoted. Work is viewed as what you have to do for 30% of your life, not an opportunity to achieve more and do something that actually matters.

 

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/why-norway-is-a-bs-argument-for-higher-taxes-8235/

[kelownabomberfan]

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

 

What innovative product or dynamic company has Norway produced?

 

Their sick time rates are so high (if you get a sniffle you go home for two weeks) that even the national automaker had to leave Norway to find a country where people actually wanted to work.

[RagingIce]

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

 

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

[17to85]

 

Oh please not this nonsense. Worst talking point ever. I ain't talking about balancing budgets which is all you are referring to because quite frankly simply balancing the budget isn't what I'm looking for out of a government. I want a balanced budget WITHOUT having to tax more to do it. I want the government stream lined and cuts made AND a lower tax burden on us the tax payers. I am not interested in having my finances raided just so the idealists in the NDP can fund whatever half baked program pops into their head. Being highly taxed stagnates an country. There is a reason why both the Conservatives and Liberals agree that taxing people isn't the solution to the country and are in favour of lower taxes for the most part. Promotes investment in the country and if people have more money in their pockets at the end of the day they have more to spend which keeps the economy going. The NDP would have us all be utterly dependent on the government for everything. 

 

 

 

 

Taxes aren't objectively bad - just because you don't want tax doesn't make the NDP bad fiscal managers. Your post is full of right wing talking points that aren't backed up by any evidence. You should examine your preconceptions more critically.

 

Just look to the Nordic countries for what a higher level of taxation can do for a country. Norway has a huge heritage fund that they created by responsibly regulating the oil industry (taxation) that Alberta could learn a thing or two from. Norway also has one of the best health care systems in the world. All of them have made far more progress on environmental issues than Canada has. No one would argue that they are stagnant.

 

Do you know what the tax rate on the people in Norway is? It's ******* HUGE. Easy to save all that oil money when you tax your population out the ass. Alberta may not have a huge oil fund (though they do have one and it's not exactly tiny) but we also enjoy a pretty low tax rate (which is going up now thanks to the NDP) 

 

The Nordic countries are exactly what I want to avoid here in Canada. Obscene tax rates. Yeah you're taken care of cradle to grave but you're paying out the ass for it and forgive me for not thinking the government is the best at spending money efficiently. Those countries also have stupidly high costs of living. They might be socialist paradises but it comes at a cost that I want no part of. 

 

I'm not opposed to taxes, I am opposed to excessive taxes. There are some things that governments should be taxing people for and paying for, having people be totally dependant on the government though? No thanks. 

[Atomic]

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach.

[17to85]

 

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

 

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

 

but people aren't equal. Once this silly idea is purged the less we'll have to hear about what a noble goal this is. Some people are just flat out smarter than others or harder workers or better athletes or whatever. Some people are lazy lumps who are happy to accomplish nothing, why should they be equal to someone driven to succeed? 

[kelownabomberfan]

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

I bet you got an "A" in your "cross-cultural" studies class. Just barf-inducing. Yet more and more automatons are turned out of our universities every day who are fed this same load of drivel.

[kelownabomberfan]

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach.

I get the same feeling when I read the NDP's platform.

[RagingIce]

but people aren't equal. Once this silly idea is purged the less we'll have to hear about what a noble goal this is. Some people are just flat out smarter than others or harder workers or better athletes or whatever. Some people are lazy lumps who are happy to accomplish nothing, why should they be equal to someone driven to succeed? 

 

 

This implies that people who are smarter or who work harder are the ones who get ahead in our society.

 

A hallmark of advanced society is the ability to feel empathy for your fellow human. If not, then why have things like socialized healthcare, education, and social assistance. Without those, those who are "smarter and harder workers" could gain even more advantages.

[RagingIce]

 

 

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach.

 

 

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

[kelownabomberfan]

A hallmark of advanced society is the ability to feel empathy for your fellow human. If not, then why have things like socialized healthcare, education, and social assistance. Without those, those who are "smarter and harder workers" could gain even more advantages.

Who told you that the "hallmark" of an advanced society was to give everyone everything for free? Seriously. What idiot fed you this mass of bullshit? Nothing comes for free. Someone has to do the work, to pay the bills. That's what they don't teach you in school.

 

The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long outside Edmonton, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

The CBC shows up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

RagingIce is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

The NDP stages an "anti-poverty" demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news stations film the group chanting, “This is not the hallmark of an advanced society.”

Jennifer Notley condemns the ant and blames capitalism for the grasshopper’s plight.

Thomas Mulcair exclaims in an interview with Anna Maria Tremonte that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the Alberta government drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of grasshoppers and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn’t maintain it.

The ant has disappeared, last seen boarding a bus for BC.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, burns down.

MORAL OF THE STORY: If you choose to become a parasite, don’t kill your victim.

 

[kelownabomberfan]

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

This morning when I came into work there was a homeless guy sleeping in front of the front door of our office building. When someone woke him up he pissed and **** himself simultaneously, then walked away. If he refuses to elevate himself by trying to use the myriad social programs available in this country to get help, are you saying that everyone should just sleep in front of buildings and piss and **** themselves, because no one deserves to be elevated above him? That's what you are saying?

[Atomic]

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach.

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

Because people elevate themselves. We should help those who are unable to work and support themselves but we should also allow those who want to be great, to be great. Everyone gets what they earn.

My question to you would be, why should we stifle the best and brightest in order to elevate those who aren't willing to work for their rewards?

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

 

 

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach.

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

Because people elevate themselves. We should help those who are unable to work and support themselves but we should also allow those who want to be great, to be great. Everyone gets what they earn.

My question to you would be, why should we stifle the best and brightest in order to elevate those who aren't willing to work for their rewards?

 

 

So by this logic then, Peluso should have been offered the same contract as Andrew Ladd or Tyler Myers, because otherwise if Ladd makes more money he is elevated above Peluso.  Just unbelievable.  I'd like to say that this guy is just trolling, but I have met too many like him to just assume that this is trolling.  The brain-washing that goes on nowadays in our universities and high schools is unparalleled in this country's history.  Communism lost, but it's making a come-back in our education systems.

[RagingIce]

 

Because people elevate themselves. We should help those who are unable to work and support themselves but we should also allow those who want to be great, to be great. Everyone gets what they earn.

My question to you would be, why should we stifle the best and brightest in order to elevate those who aren't willing to work for their rewards?

 

 

In a perfect meritocracy where those who put in more effort got equivalent rewards, I would agree with you, but our society doesn't reward people like that.

 

Often times, those on the lowest rung of society have mental illness or come from underprivileged backgrounds or are visible minorities. One of the largest predictors of a child's Socio Economic Status is that of their parents.

 

I have no problem rewarding people for hard work, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the disadvantaged in society.

[Fraser]

They do have a pretty cool seed bank though

[Atomic]

 

 

Because people elevate themselves. We should help those who are unable to work and support themselves but we should also allow those who want to be great, to be great. Everyone gets what they earn.

My question to you would be, why should we stifle the best and brightest in order to elevate those who aren't willing to work for their rewards?

 

 

In a perfect meritocracy where those who put in more effort got equivalent rewards, I would agree with you, but our society doesn't reward people like that.

 

 

Not always, but often, yes that's the way it works.  If you work hard, you will get results, 99% of the time.

 

Do some people start off with more privileges?  Of course!  But that's just the way it is.  Life's not fair and no government can make it fair.  Removing the potential of great rewards for great work... the thought of that disgusts me.  I think Canada has struck a nice balance, to be honest.  If you strive for greatness, you will have every opportunity to achieve it.  If you are disabled or otherwise unable to work, you can usually find the help you need to get by.  Not always, but usually.

[Mark H.]

Working hard will in many situations not help you advance in life.  Just ask the working class of the 19th and early 20th century.  They worked harder then any of us do, and had very little to show for it.  There plenty of countries around the world where this is still the case. As some have already said, Canada seems to strike a nice balance.

[Atomic]

Working hard will in many situations not help you advance in life.  Just ask the working class of the 19th and early 20th century.  They worked harder then any of us do, and had very little to show for it.  There plenty of countries around the world where this is still the case. As some have already said, Canada seems to strike a nice balance.

 

Yeah, I specifically meant today's Canada.  Hard work in 1917 Russia wouldn't get you much lol.

[Rod Black]

When did Norway replace Albania as the socialists model country?

[17to85]

 

but people aren't equal. Once this silly idea is purged the less we'll have to hear about what a noble goal this is. Some people are just flat out smarter than others or harder workers or better athletes or whatever. Some people are lazy lumps who are happy to accomplish nothing, why should they be equal to someone driven to succeed? 

 

 

This implies that people who are smarter or who work harder are the ones who get ahead in our society.

 

A hallmark of advanced society is the ability to feel empathy for your fellow human. If not, then why have things like socialized healthcare, education, and social assistance. Without those, those who are "smarter and harder workers" could gain even more advantages.

 

Not all by many of them do.

 

I have empathy for my fellow humans, but let me tell you about my situation... I work a job that pays very well. Most people in my peer group aren't in a financial position I am. I'm not rich, far from it but I never have to worry about money and have a nice savings going. The reason for that is that I have stayed in a job that is very volatile and unpredictable and requires long stretches away from home and makes having a real normal life difficult. I have made sacrifices to be in the position I am in financially, why should I be equal to people who can not make those same sacrifices? 

 

I'm not trying to boast about having a lot of money here, I'm simply pointing out that not everyone is willing to do the same things when it comes to earning money so equality should be right out the window just based on that. One of the things that makes Canada a great country is that you do have the opportunity to better yourself if you are willing to sacrifice and work at it. A lot of people though are content to coast through life. Why should those people be equal to the ones with the drive and willingness to sacrifice? Yeah we should help support the people who are incapable of supporting themselves, but not the people who have the means but not the will.