Politics (Split Thread)

[17to85]

When did Norway replace Albania as the socialists model country?

When people were looking for a country with a similar population and oil reserves to Alberta to talk trash about Albertans. 

[Rod Black]

Hopefully the NDP win federally. This country needs a shakup. We've been stagnating for the past 20 years.

 

What the hell does that even mean?  Canada has been leading the world in economic growth consistently and are one of the best countries in the world to live in.  If that's stagnation I'll take it.  Go travel the world a bit and come back, and you'll appreciate what we have a lot more.  Have a look at those idiots in the EU, trying to prop up those lazy commies in Greece.  Now THAT"s stagnation.

 

Perhaps be a tad less patronizing? You don't know what I've done or experienced.

 

The economy isn't the be all and end all (and we're nothing special in that regard) - we're stagnating in social progress, environmental progress and healthcare among other things. I didn't say Canada is a bad country to live in.

Raginice, your the one that that brought up the economy. What I have said is who I would vote for. Does that bother you that it's not the NDP? Does it bother you that I'm doing better under this government than any other?

You are welcome to join any organization you want, have them tell you how to vote. I'm voting with my conscience.

 

No, actually KBF is the one that brought up the economy. I don't care who you vote for or how successful you are.

And actually, there will be others that vote like me. And actually, there are others that are better off now than before.

[Rod Black]

When did Norway replace Albania as the socialists model country?

When people were looking for a country with a similar population and oil reserves to Alberta to talk trash about Albertans.

Why would they need to feel they need to trash talk Albertans. Oh, envy. Got it.

Maybe it has to do with Albania being one of the most corrupt countries. Can't get anything done there because there is that crooked underground economy. But there's tons of oil in Albania also. How's that working out for them? Ironically, the socialists would have turned Canada into an Albania, and the most important city in Albania is, Terana. See what I did there. Terana, Albania, Terana Canada as pronounced in Toronto. Try and buy a legal anything there without waiting. "No bread today". Not even a "sorry".

[Rod Black]

What stagnation?

2014 growth rates:

Turkmenistan 11.1% (Wouldn't want to live there)

Poland 3.2% ( Canada has more Poland nationals immigrating here than Canadians going to Poland)

Canada 2.3%. ( lots of resources including the best hockey players in the world)

Albania 2.1% population 4 million - corrupt as hell. Oh, is hell on earth.

Norway 1.6% population 5 million - will be one of the first Nordic countries to be overtaken by Putin.

Russia .5% tons of resources. Proof socialism fails. Proves Putin is an A hole.

[Rod Black]

Here's how the socialism, the NDP, works. You have two cows and the Socialsts takes them from you. They hire ex-chicken farmers to look after the cows. You get hired to look after the chickens. The Socialists gives you the amount of milk the regulations say.

[Fatty Liver]

 

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

This morning when I came into work there was a homeless guy sleeping in front of the front door of our office building. When someone woke him up he pissed and **** himself simultaneously, then walked away. If he refuses to elevate himself by trying to use the myriad social programs available in this country to get help, are you saying that everyone should just sleep in front of buildings and piss and **** themselves, because no one deserves to be elevated above him? That's what you are saying?

 

 

That's a poor example to highlight in your argument without knowing what the cause of his homelessness is.  Very high probability that he has base mental health issues that are not being treated by our current health system and he is left to fend for himself.  Withn MB. I know of mental health facilities that have been shut down in both Portage and Selkirk as cost savings without reasonable support being provided to the evictees. 

 

If grandpa loses his mind the immediate family can usually step up to ensure his well being but there are a lot of people in this world that don't have that family support to begin with.  Don't know anyone that could have ended up homeless???  Just dig into your family tree, you won't have to dig very deep..

[Rod Black]

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

This morning when I came into work there was a homeless guy sleeping in front of the front door of our office building. When someone woke him up he pissed and **** himself simultaneously, then walked away. If he refuses to elevate himself by trying to use the myriad social programs available in this country to get help, are you saying that everyone should just sleep in front of buildings and piss and **** themselves, because no one deserves to be elevated above him? That's what you are saying?

 

That's a poor example to highlight in your argument without knowing what the cause of his homelessness is.  Very high probability that he has base mental health issues that are not being treated by our current health system and he is left to fend for himself.  Withn MB. I know of mental health facilities that have been shut down in both Portage and Selkirk as cost savings without reasonable support being provided to the evictees. 

 

If grandpa loses his mind the immediate family can usually step up to ensure his well being but there are a lot of people in this world that don't have that family support to begin with.  Don't know anyone that could have ended up homeless???  Just dig into your family tree, you won't have to dig very deep..

selkirk and portage getting closed without reasonable support being provided to evicted patients would never happen in Manitoba. No way. Impossible. It never happened here. The NDP built their following back from Tommy Douglas days on a health care platform. I call BS.

The NDP has now called the evicted "Being served from the community". Which is another way of saying, "I don't give two hoots about grandpa" and the homecare workers refuse to help grandpa because he called one a *****. 70 grand a year and doesnt have to empty a colostomy bag of a wheelchair bound weakling diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and delirium. That's socialists systemic elder abuse. Rather than Norway let's look at the socialists performance right here.

[Mark H.]

 

Working hard will in many situations not help you advance in life.  Just ask the working class of the 19th and early 20th century.  They worked harder then any of us do, and had very little to show for it.  There plenty of countries around the world where this is still the case. As some have already said, Canada seems to strike a nice balance.

 

Yeah, I specifically meant today's Canada.  Hard work in 1917 Russia wouldn't get you much lol.

 

 

The problem still exists. But it's a across the ocean so we can pretend it doesn't.  A large chuck of North American prosperity is on the backs of working poor in other countries.  

[Atomic]

Working hard will in many situations not help you advance in life. Just ask the working class of the 19th and early 20th century. They worked harder then any of us do, and had very little to show for it. There plenty of countries around the world where this is still the case. As some have already said, Canada seems to strike a nice balance.

Yeah, I specifically meant today's Canada. Hard work in 1917 Russia wouldn't get you much lol.

The problem still exists. But it's a across the ocean so we can pretend it doesn't. A large chuck of North American prosperity is on the backs of working poor in other countries.

Ok for a third time I'll clarify that I'm talking about Canada specifically. Geez this is painful.

[Mark H.]

Okay, broader discussion is painful. Cool then

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

Ah Norway, tax everybody to the hilt, tons of state intervention to keep everybody at the same level. Socialist BS.

I would argue that keeping everyone at the same level is a worthy goal. Wealth and income inequality are not things a country should aspire to.

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach.

 

 

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

 

You're sort of implying that we are all equal.  That we are all equally as intelligent, gifted, educated and give an equal level of effort and the only reason some rise above others is due to some sort of political or societal issue.  We all know people that are higher than us at work that we think (or know) we are smarter than or would do a better job.  Some of us probably get upset when we apply for a position and the guy with the greater education gets it even though we'd do just as good a job.  But any idea that everyone should be equal just doesnt work.  Dont you deserve to make more money than the guy who doesnt put in the same effort as you?

[The Unknown Poster]

This sort of dovetails to the debate about minimum wage.  Im actually torn on this.  When I was young and worked minimum wage jobs, ofcourse, I valued any increase.  When I began making a little bit more than minimum wage, the one thing that irked me was I didnt also get a raise.  So if minimum wage was, say, $9/hour and I made $10/hour, when minimum increased .25 cents, it just put me closer to minimum wage than I had been before.

 

Jobs like flipping burgers, serving coffee etc, when the debate comes up about how these positions dont pay a living wage, my initial feeling is, why should they?  Why should you make $35,000-$40,000 doing a job like that?

 

By conflict comes when I hear stories about a person being a hard worker and good company person who works for McDonalds for 20 years and makes $8/hour.  A lot of people will do that job when they are kids, go to school, move on.  Some will rise up in the company and go into management.  Can the company really not afford to pay a better wage for those good employees that work there for years and years?

[Fatty Liver]

This sort of dovetails to the debate about minimum wage.  Im actually torn on this.  When I was young and worked minimum wage jobs, ofcourse, I valued any increase.  When I began making a little bit more than minimum wage, the one thing that irked me was I didnt also get a raise.  So if minimum wage was, say, $9/hour and I made $10/hour, when minimum increased .25 cents, it just put me closer to minimum wage than I had been before.

 

Jobs like flipping burgers, serving coffee etc, when the debate comes up about how these positions dont pay a living wage, my initial feeling is, why should they?  Why should you make $35,000-$40,000 doing a job like that?

 

By conflict comes when I hear stories about a person being a hard worker and good company person who works for McDonalds for 20 years and makes $8/hour.  A lot of people will do that job when they are kids, go to school, move on.  Some will rise up in the company and go into management.  Can the company really not afford to pay a better wage for those good employees that work there for years and years?

 

This sort of dovetails to the debate about minimum wage.  Im actually torn on this.  When I was young and worked minimum wage jobs, ofcourse, I valued any increase.  When I began making a little bit more than minimum wage, the one thing that irked me was I didnt also get a raise.  So if minimum wage was, say, $9/hour and I made $10/hour, when minimum increased .25 cents, it just put me closer to minimum wage than I had been before.

 

Jobs like flipping burgers, serving coffee etc, when the debate comes up about how these positions dont pay a living wage, my initial feeling is, why should they?  Why should you make $35,000-$40,000 doing a job like that?

 

By conflict comes when I hear stories about a person being a hard worker and good company person who works for McDonalds for 20 years and makes $8/hour.  A lot of people will do that job when they are kids, go to school, move on.  Some will rise up in the company and go into management.  Can the company really not afford to pay a better wage for those good employees that work there for years and years?

 

Companies like Walmart, McDonalds and such don't expect multi-year commitment so they don't value it.  It is what it is, a low paying entry level job.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yes.  But, I dont think its that simple anymore.  i felt the same way: "If you want more money, get a better job".  But in some cases, we're talking people that are doing the job they can do.  And if they are loyal, hard working, pleasant and do that job well, shouldnt they get more for 10, 15, 20 years on the job?  How many McD's employees have been there 20 years?  Paying a premium at certain anniversaries cant cost that much.  And quite frankly, I'll pay an extra 50 cents for my quarter pounder...

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

 

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

This morning when I came into work there was a homeless guy sleeping in front of the front door of our office building. When someone woke him up he pissed and **** himself simultaneously, then walked away. If he refuses to elevate himself by trying to use the myriad social programs available in this country to get help, are you saying that everyone should just sleep in front of buildings and piss and **** themselves, because no one deserves to be elevated above him? That's what you are saying?

 

That's a poor example to highlight in your argument without knowing what the cause of his homelessness is.  Very high probability that he has base mental health issues that are not being treated by our current health system and he is left to fend for himself.  Withn MB. I know of mental health facilities that have been shut down in both Portage and Selkirk as cost savings without reasonable support being provided to the evictees. 

 

If grandpa loses his mind the immediate family can usually step up to ensure his well being but there are a lot of people in this world that don't have that family support to begin with.  Don't know anyone that could have ended up homeless???  Just dig into your family tree, you won't have to dig very deep..

selkirk and portage getting closed without reasonable support being provided to evicted patients would never happen in Manitoba. No way. Impossible. It never happened here. The NDP built their following back from Tommy Douglas days on a health care platform. I call BS.

The NDP has now called the evicted "Being served from the community". Which is another way of saying, "I don't give two hoots about grandpa" and the homecare workers refuse to help grandpa because he called one a *****. 70 grand a year and doesnt have to empty a colostomy bag of a wheelchair bound weakling diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and delirium. That's socialists systemic elder abuse. Rather than Norway let's look at the socialists performance right here.

 

 

Honestly, I used the example of MB. cause that's what I'm most familiar with but I believe this has happened in each and every province since the 80's, increasing homelessness dramatically.  So you can't really point the finger at the NDP specifically as it is a federal problem.

[Fatty Liver]

Yes.  But, I dont think its that simple anymore.  i felt the same way: "If you want more money, get a better job".  But in some cases, we're talking people that are doing the job they can do.  And if they are loyal, hard working, pleasant and do that job well, shouldnt they get more for 10, 15, 20 years on the job?  How many McD's employees have been there 20 years?  Paying a premium at certain anniversaries cant cost that much.  And quite frankly, I'll pay an extra 50 cents for my quarter pounder...

 

Yes.  But, I dont think its that simple anymore.  i felt the same way: "If you want more money, get a better job".  But in some cases, we're talking people that are doing the job they can do.  And if they are loyal, hard working, pleasant and do that job well, shouldnt they get more for 10, 15, 20 years on the job?  How many McD's employees have been there 20 years?  Paying a premium at certain anniversaries cant cost that much.  And quite frankly, I'll pay an extra 50 cents for my quarter pounder...

 

I agree, but the fact is they don't honour such commitment.  Ask yourself why there needs to be a minimum wage set at all and the answer is clear.  Many companies would pay as close to zero as possible for labour and don't have the integrity to regulate themselves.  Dog eat dog is the motto.

[17to85]

Yes.  But, I dont think its that simple anymore.  i felt the same way: "If you want more money, get a better job".  But in some cases, we're talking people that are doing the job they can do.  And if they are loyal, hard working, pleasant and do that job well, shouldnt they get more for 10, 15, 20 years on the job?  How many McD's employees have been there 20 years?  Paying a premium at certain anniversaries cant cost that much.  And quite frankly, I'll pay an extra 50 cents for my quarter pounder...

The problem is that it's a low skill easily replaceable job. You won't do it for 8 bucks an hour? Ok fine we'll hire some high school kid who is desperate for a paycheque to do it for 8 bucks an hour. 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Yes.  But, I dont think its that simple anymore.  i felt the same way: "If you want more money, get a better job".  But in some cases, we're talking people that are doing the job they can do.  And if they are loyal, hard working, pleasant and do that job well, shouldnt they get more for 10, 15, 20 years on the job?  How many McD's employees have been there 20 years?  Paying a premium at certain anniversaries cant cost that much.  And quite frankly, I'll pay an extra 50 cents for my quarter pounder...

The problem is that it's a low skill easily replaceable job. You won't do it for 8 bucks an hour? Ok fine we'll hire some high school kid who is desperate for a paycheque to do it for 8 bucks an hour. 

 

I agree with that.  But isnt this part of the problem?  A segment of the population, or a segment of a location that generation after generation will never get ahead.  Public perception could help change things.  Its just a shame.  Working anywhere for 20 years and working hard and being trustworthy, loyal and good at what you do...it should mean something.

[kelownabomberfan]

Yes.  But, I dont think its that simple anymore.  i felt the same way: "If you want more money, get a better job".  But in some cases, we're talking people that are doing the job they can do.  And if they are loyal, hard working, pleasant and do that job well, shouldnt they get more for 10, 15, 20 years on the job?  How many McD's employees have been there 20 years?  Paying a premium at certain anniversaries cant cost that much.  And quite frankly, I'll pay an extra 50 cents for my quarter pounder...

The problem is that it's a low skill easily replaceable job. You won't do it for 8 bucks an hour? Ok fine we'll hire some high school kid who is desperate for a paycheque to do it for 8 bucks an hour.

 

And that's what those jobs are supposed to be for, for the high school kids.  Not for grown adults.  One of my first non-farm labour jobs was working at a cadet camp in Banff when I was 17.  It was great because it paid $6.50 an hour, I had a free place to stay, and all I could eat, which at 17 was a huge bonus.  I think I probably accounted for half of the Canadian defence budget that year.  What I couldn't believe was that there were people working with me in the kitchen who were in their 30's, making barely more than I was.  I couldn't understand being that old, and still working for peanuts.  Yet all these people wanted to do was work the most boring job possible, and then go get drunk every night.  It didn't make sense to me.  Anyway, to each their own.

 

Now the issue in our society is that high school kids don't want to work these minimum wage jobs, and they don't have to, as mom and dad and grandpa and grandma give them everything.  I have a 16 year old nephew in that boat.  Doesn't want to get a part-time job because he doesn't need one.  And that's fine, but he doesn't play any sports, and instead just video-games all the time, in fact, he's already looking forward to summer so he can video game 7 days a week, 15 hours a day for two straight months.  So who's left to fill the fast-food jobs?  Temporary foreign workers.

[Rod Black]

 

 

 

 

Why does it make you sick to your stomach - why does anyone deserve to be elevated over anyone else?

This morning when I came into work there was a homeless guy sleeping in front of the front door of our office building. When someone woke him up he pissed and **** himself simultaneously, then walked away. If he refuses to elevate himself by trying to use the myriad social programs available in this country to get help, are you saying that everyone should just sleep in front of buildings and piss and **** themselves, because no one deserves to be elevated above him? That's what you are saying?

 

That's a poor example to highlight in your argument without knowing what the cause of his homelessness is.  Very high probability that he has base mental health issues that are not being treated by our current health system and he is left to fend for himself.  Withn MB. I know of mental health facilities that have been shut down in both Portage and Selkirk as cost savings without reasonable support being provided to the evictees. 

 

If grandpa loses his mind the immediate family can usually step up to ensure his well being but there are a lot of people in this world that don't have that family support to begin with.  Don't know anyone that could have ended up homeless???  Just dig into your family tree, you won't have to dig very deep..

selkirk and portage getting closed without reasonable support being provided to evicted patients would never happen in Manitoba. No way. Impossible. It never happened here. The NDP built their following back from Tommy Douglas days on a health care platform. I call BS.

The NDP has now called the evicted "Being served from the community". Which is another way of saying, "I don't give two hoots about grandpa" and the homecare workers refuse to help grandpa because he called one a *****. 70 grand a year and doesnt have to empty a colostomy bag of a wheelchair bound weakling diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and delirium. That's socialists systemic elder abuse. Rather than Norway let's look at the socialists performance right here.

 

 

Honestly, I used the example of MB. cause that's what I'm most familiar with but I believe this has happened in each and every province since the 80's, increasing homelessness dramatically.  So you can't really point the finger at the NDP specifically as it is a federal problem.

 

I will point the finger at the NDP, cunning devils that hey are. its happening in MB on their watch. this is the evidence. but you are free to extrapolate.

If your involved in this story, you have my sympathies.

[basslicker]

Yea I'm done talking to you. If you want to have a civil discussion on politics, you should be a little less hostile to people that hold different views than you.

Don't forget to take your ball with you when you pout and go home.

He was simply pointing out the flaws in your misinformed logic.

[kelownabomberfan]

That's a poor example to highlight in your argument.

 

I totally agree.  It was meant to be an exaggeration.  That fellow that pooped himself in front of us was obviously not indicative of the median standard for our "enhanced" society, but that being said, when some brain-washed leftist tells me that no one should be elevated above anyone else, where's the bottom line then?  What's the standard?  That's where I get a million different opinions from these people.  I had one English major tell me one day that no one in Canada should make over $75,000.  Anything above that should just be "given" to the government.  And she is telling me this with a straight face.  Like good grief, Lord help us all if our country's tax policy is ever handed over to English majors.  Yet if you look at Norway's tax policy, they almost have such a system in place, in that if you make over $100K in Norway, you get to keep almost none of the money above that $100K mark.  And that's a sure-fire way to encourage stagnation, as the best and brightest leave your country for greener pastures elsewhere.  And rightly so.

 

As for a more common story, my neighbours next door to me won the inheritance lottery and were able to buy the house next door.  The mom, grown adult son and grown adult daughter all live together, and all are on welfare.  The only time I see the son when he's not video-gaming is when he is outside lighting up a joint.  When I ask the mom if the kids are going to get a job or go to school, I am given the mantra that "it's really hard to find work out there" and "the kids don't really want to go to university".  Of course not.  They can survive on the government teat, so why go and make something of their lives?  Meanwhile, the grass in the back yard is 3 feet high because they refuse to mow it (I wrecked my mower last year trying to mow it for them) and the fence is crumbling.  These are the kind of people that take advantage of our already extremely generous social safety net.  It bugs me to no end that somehow idiots can claim that Canadians don't have enough empathy, or should be more like crappy countries like Norway.  Canadians spend billions of dollars every year propping up people like my neighbours, who make enough off the government to not even bother trying to find work.  I think that there should be some sort of way of monitoring able-bodied people who are perpetually on welfare, as they just have no incentive to ever go off of it, if there is no one telling them they have to.  That's not right.

[kelownabomberfan]

A large chuck of North American prosperity is on the backs of working poor in other countries.

Mark - I've toured factories (known as "sweat shops" to guilt-laden liberals) in Egypt, Myanmar and Cambodia. I can tell you this - if it wasn't for us horrible North Americans buying up goods manufactured by these "working poor" from these countries, they wouldn't be "working poor", they'd be dead and starving poor. When it comes down to options for these people, it's work in these factories, or sell their bodies. It's that basic. When I was in Myanmar, I asked what the skilled ladies running the machines were making, and they told me $5 a day, which of course, given the North American mindset, made me recoil in horror. But then they told me that these ladies were really well-paid, given the cost of living was low enough that they had money left over to help support their families. My guide in Myanmar told me he could feed his whole family, including wife, parents and kids, on $50 a month. So I gave him a tip of $50 US so he could feed them all for a month. He showed me his house, which was by North American standards just plain awful - no electricity, bamboo walls etc. but he and his wife were happy. Could it be better? Yup. But that's the thing. We'd be hurting these people much much more by boycotting their products then by continuing to buy them. They are extremely happy to have jobs, which wouldn't exist, without us horrible exploitive evil North Americans. It's a process, and it takes time.

[The Unknown Poster]

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

[17to85]

Its not just lazy people choosing to flip burgers unto their 40's.  Many of those people have very limited options.  Those are the people Im talking about.  The people that choose to do the best they can instead of being on welfare or crime or whatever.  People who maybe had tough lives, were born into tough situations.  Maybe never received the education needed to advance past a certain point.  But they work hard, are trust-worthy and loyal.  Should they make $6/hour at age 40 after 20 years?  I dont think so.

 

It happens.  Trust me.

but the thing is, they have opportunities to improve themselves if they want to put in the work. Go get educated, find an entry level job with some upward mobility. Work in a field that pays higher without a lot of skills required. This country is great because you CAN improve your situation if you want to. Tough life? No education? Just excuses when it comes right down to it. The people who do the best in this country are the ones who know what they want and have the drive to go out and get it.