Odds and Sods.....X2 Game, Hamilton at Winnipeg

[Yourface]

Marve has gotten the garbage time in pre-season bro, he's playing against guys who are no longer on the teams he played against. To suggest Marve played in more demanding situations is complete BS really... 

 

Marve has played against the other teams 3rd stringers for the most part, he's been the qb that got the reps in the 3rd and 4th quarters, more so the 4th quarter. As a matter of fact this past week, he was the last guy in the game playing against guys who were just cut by Hamilton. 

 

In the regular season he played in much more difficult situations, and no one can dispute that. The competition that Marve and Brohm faced in the preseason are probably about equal. 

[kelownabomberfan]

Marve has gotten the garbage time in pre-season bro, he's playing against guys who are no longer on the teams he played against. To suggest Marve played in more demanding situations is complete BS really... 

 .

Who won the game in Calgary last year? I'm trying to remember...

[Yourface]

I'll take the pros words over the Joes anyday of the week and twice on Sundays. This is what i'll never understand on these fan forums, we are fans, that's what we are, yeah we have some knowledge but, our knowledge combined is nothing compared to what the guys who actually do it for a living have. I think sometimes, we may forget that and think we have all the answers when in reality, we have very little answers. 

 

We base our thoughts on what? 10 15 30 plays? The pros base their thoughts on hours upon hours upon hours of film and practice reps.. videos, all sorts of things, just cuz a guy goes out there and moves the ball, doesn't mean he's doing what he's supposed to do... 

 

 

15 20 30 plays... vs hours upon hours of film and practice . 

 

Well that's very naive of you... I understand being optimistic that the coaching staff makes the right decisions, but that's not always how it works.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with questioning the management's decisions, not one thing.

[do or die]

Well, this business of "amateurs" deferring to the "professional" coach stuff.....makes plenty of sense, in the abstract main.   But over time, plenty of guys with that title have come down the pipe.....and have made what have been proven to be many mistakes in on field/personnel decisions.

 

Our job on MorningBigBlue...is to merely separate the wheat from the chaff.....which requires a certain amount of discussion and....dare I say it....debate.  Besides, it's not like any of us are going to get the opportunity to prove otherwise....

[Mr Dee]

MOS on why Marve is 3rd on the chart (via Wpg FP):

 

"The fans see great excitement (in Marve) and moving the ball, especially with his feet. We’d like (Marve) to wait the extra second and make that throw if it’s open. And he sees that himself... He still has some growth."

 

 

... And Marve did make good throws from the pocket after that. In fact he showed more of an ability to throw the ball than Brohm did.

Marve gives the Bombers a much better chance to win than Brohm. That's why he should be the primary backup.

You're funny.

After all that has just been written regarding Marve and the reason he is still #3, you proceed to follow the same line of reasoning.

Makes me think you don't chew your food before swallowing either.

 

Well excuse me for wanting the Bombers to win more than anything. The words of the coaching staff aren't flawless you know.... Unlike some of you, I realize that O'Shea and Bellefeuille have their biases too.

Nah, I'm just funning with you.

But when you speak of words from the coaching staff, it is the reason I quoted them again.

They know Marve's exciting, but they're also subtly saying he needs a little more polish.

Take their words under advisement. (Or chew on them a little longer, if you will)

We all love Marve and want him to succeed - he's on our team.

We're just more patient.

[deflated balls]

Let's see, one QB stands in the pocket and can't move the team, the other runs around more and moves the team rather consistently. Comparing both guy's stats during their time in Winnipeg, Marve has more PASSING yardage with more TDS than Brohm in addition to all the extra yards he gains on the ground. The only way Marve will ever get the pocket experience he needs to take his game to the next level would be to actually play more often. Everyone already knows what they'll get with Brohm, possibly a first down (more likely not) and another punt. He's 30 and hasn't been able to win a starting spot anywhere he's been after leaving college for a reason.........he isn't good enough! Marve hasn't been able to win a starting spot largely because of inexperience due to the injuries he's sustained. Marve is actually exciting to watch (football after all is supposed to be entertaining, right) and gets the fans buzzing when he enters a game while Brohm has many people wondering what kind of pictures he's in possession of that allows him a spot on this roster. Bombers have absolutely nothing to lose by using Marve ahead of a guy that has proven to have no future in the game, it's only a matter of time until the powers that be come to that conclusion as well.

[TBURGESS]

I was paraphrasing.  Typed it before the quote was put into the thread.  

 

Waiting an extra second to see if a throw is open is great only if there is a throw that's actually open. Otherwise, Marve loses the ability to make anything happen with his running and ends up having to throw the ball away or take the sack.  I'm not sure where some of you think Marve will wait that extra second if it's not in the pocket.  On the run behind the LOS?  Then you'll complain that he can't throw from the pocket.

 

Marve hasn't surprised anyone with his running ability since the first time he played last year.  DC's can't take that away from him unless they bring more people towards the LOS which opens up the receivers down field.  Marve's completed passes effectively both from the pocket and on the run.  Needs to learn to read defenses better?  Sure he does, but so does every 3rd string QB in the league and most of the 2nd strings and several of the starters.  He's a Reilly style QB, not a Ray.  Both can be very effective in the CFL. 

 

I'm not sure why there are so many arguments about our 3rd string QB around here. Everyone should want him to succeed. 

[mbrg]

I'm not sure why there are so many arguments about our 3rd string QB around here. Everyone should want him to succeed. 

 

There are moments when we are in complete agreement.

[deflated balls]

With respect to coaches making the right decisions, they screw up constantly and get fired all the time. In fact, it's often said that a coach is usually much better in his second opportunity at leading a team because he's learned greatly from all the mistakes he's made during his first kick at the can. O'Shea leaving the offense in the hands of MB may well turn out to be his downfall; let's hope that's not the case.

[Fatty Liver]

Only thing I'll say about Marve is the guy has tons of potential and definitely brings a spark to the team, he's a good change of pace QB however, with that being said, if you want to ruin a prospect QB in the CFL, you play him before he's actually ready. Marve isn't ready yet, he might be soon but he isn't there yet. What JBR said is true, teams now have film on him, he won't surprise them anymore, he needs to learn to pass first, needs to go through his reads, not just the first one but all of them, then if nothing there, go ahead and take off.. but for the most part, it's one read and then run... yeah it's exciting he gets a 15 20 yard run, awesome but if he went through his other reads, maybe just maybe he would have gotten a 20 30 40 yard pass out of it. 

 

The worst thing you can do is rush a qb before they are ready, that's the way careers are ruined.. You want him to be a good one in the future? You develop him slowly and let him learn the game and learn to become a CFL qb, that means reading the D, standing in the pocket, going through all your reads... 

 

 

 

You make some good points but this isn't always the case and really doesn't explain how Collaros managed to succeed in T.O. and doesn't relate to how he currently plays the game.  His first game last season against Edm. or Cgy. was the only game in which he tried to operate from the pocket and he ended up being concussed after being hammered all game long.  When he came back Austin made adjustments to allow him to move and he has demonstrated how effective a non-pocket passer can be in the CFL if provided the support. 

[max power]

Of course coaches make mistakes all the time.  But the point someone made above is valid about them basing their decisions on hours watching tape of games and practices, and actually knowing what the plays were vs. us just watching a few plays in the game.  If anyone here ends up being right about a player and the coaching staff is wrong, I would chalk that up to pure luck more than anything.

 

And the Bombers haven't cut Marve - they obviously don't think he's terrible and they do want him on the team. So it's not exactly a cut and dried either/or thing here.

[Fatty Liver]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that any QB standing in the pocket and than choosing to escape from a standing start can rarely escape a DE bearing down on him with full momentum.  Close your eyes and imagine Willy in this scenario, it happened a lot in 2014. 

[Adrenaline_x]

Marve made the pre-season exciting.. he can throw accurately on the run, he can escape the end rush by rolling out and still complete passes.

 

will can be great, at least i hope he can, but Marve almost wills the team to win/move down the field.  He made a few really great runs last game where there was no one around him.. He also looked like he was going to be sacked before he rolled out and through to the reciever in the end zone.. 

 

 

Marve extends plays consistently and why he seems more successfull then Brohm last year IMO because when our oline couldn't stop the rush Brohm and even willy were sacked.. Marve has the ability to escape.

 

I don't suggest willy is replaced by Marve, but i would like it to be Marve that comes in when willy isn't able to move the ball for the first 30 minutes of the game.

[Brandon]

Maybe if we had an o-line like Calgary then a guy like Brohm would make more sense.... We will have to wait and see how the line holds up after a few games.

[SPuDS]

MB's offence is based on standing in the pocket and delivering the football. His is a game management style where we dink and dunk down the field and stretch it when we can. willy and brohm are "built" to run this offence.. Hence, 1 and 2. Marve can definitely be the change of pace guy who moves the sticks with moxy and ad libbing when the offence is stagnant BUT the whole concept is not designed with his skills in place..

Maybe one day the offence will be retooled if it's deemed willy and brohm are not the answer but I assume that would also mean MB's departure.

[Mark F]

 if you want to ruin a prospect QB in the CFL, you play him before he's actually ready.

 

 

no offence, but I think this idea is overrated.

 

I'm not commenting on Marve specifically,  I don't know much about him, …. but how many plays did Drew Willy run before he got here?

 

How much experience did Ricky Ray have when he took over in edmonton? 

 

 

Now people like Collaros. How many plays did he run before taking over last year?

 

How bout Reilly in Edmonton? 

 

Pretty sure lots of successful quarterbacks had very little pro experience prior to succeeding in the CFL, and the NFL. There are all kinds of

 

examples.

 

unrelated but

 

The thing about willy that  I wonder about, is holding the ball too long.  There were a few people posting here that said this was part of his problem last season, and part of the reason he got killed. Not simply bad Offensive line.

 

   I don't think he'll have the O line excuse this year.

[Fatty Liver]

Marve made the pre-season exciting.. he can throw accurately on the run, he can escape the end rush by rolling out and still complete passes.

 

will can be great, at least i hope he can, but Marve almost wills the team to win/move down the field.  He made a few really great runs last game where there was no one around him.. He also looked like he was going to be sacked before he rolled out and through to the reciever in the end zone.. 

 

 

Marve extends plays consistently and why he seems more successfull then Brohm last year IMO because when our oline couldn't stop the rush Brohm and even willy were sacked.. Marve has the ability to escape.

 

I don't suggest willy is replaced by Marve, but i would like it to be Marve that comes in when willy isn't able to move the ball for the first 30 minutes of the game.

I suspect they will have plenty of opportunity to do this in their first five games but doubt that they will.

[mbrg]

This ongoing debate just seems like the strangest thing to me.

 

Here's what the coaches want - to call a play and have the QB execute that play.

 

The current positioning of QBs on our roster very accurately reflects their ability to do that.

 

Coaches also understand that plays break down and QBs will have to take matters into their own hands.  They want these occurrences to be in the minority, not multiple times per series.

 

If the coaches want their QBs to "go wing it" on almost every play, then they are being mule-headed, because Marve is easily best at that.

 

Marve has a special set of athletic skills.  Hopefully the mental side of it catches up.  That is not an insult to his intelligence.  Dunnigan said he didn't feel entirely comfortable in the CFL game until his 7th year in the league.  It doesn't work to make a QB in the microwave.

[17to85]

The Marve fan club needs to pump their brakes a bit. Even Marve understands he needs to get better at some things, why can't the fanbois accept that? I like the guy too, I hope he does keep progressing, but pretending that he doesn't have things to work on is just getting annoying. 

[Doublezero]

Maybe if we had an o-line like Calgary then a guy like Brohm would make more sense.... We will have to wait and see how the line holds up after a few games.

Actually it is running QBs like Marve who benefit most from a quality O-line. Especially at the Centre position. You have to wonder if the mediocrity of Winnipeg's O-line has previously constrained Bellefuelle's ability to really reach into the option style offence.

[deflated balls]

The Marve fan club needs to pump their brakes a bit. Even Marve understands he needs to get better at some things, why can't the fanbois accept that? I like the guy too, I hope he does keep progressing, but pretending that he doesn't have things to work on is just getting annoying. 

Who's saying Marve doesn't have things to work on? All people are suggesting is that he should be getting the nod over a player like Brohm who show's absolutely no ability to move the team (one td drive in all the opportunities he's had) if/when Willy gets injured or has trouble in a particular game.  

[TrueBlue4ever]

This ongoing debate just seems like the strangest thing to me.

 

Here's what the coaches want - to call a play and have the QB execute that play.

 

The current positioning of QBs on our roster very accurately reflects their ability to do that.

 

Coaches also understand that plays break down and QBs will have to take matters into their own hands.  They want these occurrences to be in the minority, not multiple times per series.

 

If the coaches want their QBs to "go wing it" on almost every play, then they are being mule-headed, because Marve is easily best at that.

 

Marve has a special set of athletic skills.  Hopefully the mental side of it catches up.  That is not an insult to his intelligence.  Dunnigan said he didn't feel entirely comfortable in the CFL game until his 7th year in the league.  It doesn't work to make a QB in the microwave.

All of the other debate aside, one thing I noticed that no one has brought up yet:

 

On the one series of plays in the first quarter where Marve was brought in and did run the plays exactly the way the coaches wanted them run, it was the QB sneak at the goal line. And he struggled mightily. Not sure where the blame lies, but it was so predictable it was frustrating to watch. he doesn't take the ball and just push the pile behind centre, he likes to take it left or right for about 3-5 steps before cutting in, and the club has run the same play every time in goal line situations with him going back to last year. Teams have figured it out now (they started to last year, IMO) and rather than plunge over the centre the linebackers just hold back, read which way Marve runs and then collapse the line on that side, and he hasn't shown great strength in pushing the line forward. Hope either he changes his approach, the club disguises it better, or they just leave Willy in to give the illusion of a pass. That's one area I thought Portis looked OK in as a big QB who could surge on a QB keeper. Just my 2 cents, any other opinions?

[Jaxon]

 

 

He never got a chance to punt during the game (probably insurance reasons for that) but the punter from the Rifles was hoofing a few at halftime and he looked decent.  Great arc and hang time, decent distance.  I could see him getting a contract offer from the Bombers in the future, something along the lines of a territorial exemption thing like Goodrich.  If it applies.

Brad Mikoluff  #74.    

 

He still has eligibility for the Rifles, so if the Bombers like him, they can keep him as a non-counter all year.  He is able to practise with the Bombers and play with the Rifles.   It's a nice insurance deal for the Bombers because if they need a punter in a pinch, they can sign and dress him and he already knows the playbook, the players, and the coaches.  This is a special deal open to all CJFL players who didn't play CIS.   Each CFL team can have up to 4 local junior players in camp under this program.   I suspect that the Bombers will keep both Mikoluff and Braedy Will  around this year.

 

 

Self edit:  If he does dress for a regular season game, he loses the special status.  At that point he would have to sign a contract and be a "counter".

[kelownabomberfan]

That guy has the butt of an o-lineman...

[Noeller]

Of course coaches make mistakes all the time.  But the point someone made above is valid about them basing their decisions on hours watching tape of games and practices, and actually knowing what the plays were vs. us just watching a few plays in the game.  If anyone here ends up being right about a player and the coaching staff is wrong, I would chalk that up to pure luck more than anything.

 

And the Bombers haven't cut Marve - they obviously don't think he's terrible and they do want him on the team. So it's not exactly a cut and dried either/or thing here.

Like this a whole lot.......