NHL To Announce Expansion

[johnzo]

went to seattle a few years ago by car, planned a night stay there, almost got hit by a bus on tracks, couldn't believe how horrendous the traffic was, left immediately. I've driven around Los Angeles, it's much easier than Seattle.

That place is not laid back.

Yeah. Our traffic is worst in the nation right now. We're expecting to add a Winnipeg to our population in the next couple decades and we're absolutely terrible at building infrastructure. How terrible? We're replacing a downtown viaduct with a boondoggle waterfront tunnel that was conceived by the creationist goofballs at the Discovery Institute.

On top of that, our geography is awful for traffic, we're nothing but hills and lakes, so traffic is funneled onto a few choked thoroughfares. Also, we have very little mass transit. Our one downtown-airport train line covers maybe 5% of the population. When we bought our house last year, I made damn sure it was located on that train line.

It's like iso said, any NHL team here would have transportation issues playing weeknight games.

(sorry to rant but holy crap Seattle is bad at transportation and infrastructure.)

[kelownabomberfan]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775295&navid=nhl:topheads

[kelownabomberfan]

went to seattle a few years ago by car, planned a night stay there, almost got hit by a bus on tracks, couldn't believe how horrendous the traffic was, left immediately. I've driven around Los Angeles, it's much easier than Seattle.

That place is not laid back.

Yeah. Our traffic is worst in the nation right now. We're expecting to add a Winnipeg to our population in the next couple decades and we're absolutely terrible at building infrastructure. We're replacing a downtown viaduct with a boondoggle waterfront tunnel that was conceived by the creationist goofballs at the Discovery Institute.

Our geography is awful for traffic, we're nothing but hills and lakes, so traffic is funneled onto a few choked thoroughfares. On top of that, we have no effective mass transit system. Our one downtown-airport train line covers maybe 5% of the population. When we bought our house last year, I made damn sure it was located on that train line.

It's like iso said, any NHL team here would have transportation issues playing weeknight games.

(sorry to rant but holy crap Seattle is bad at transportation and infrastructure.)

Went to a Seahawks game in 2012. Never driving again! What a disaster.

[johnzo]

Monday night Seahawk games here are an absolute disaster. The stadium is downtown so you have a bunch of people trying to get into downtown right around rush hour. If you ever try that again, look at parking in Everett or another northern place and catching the Sounder train down -- I think they run the commuter trains on game days....

Anyway, bonne chance to Quebec! Vive les Nordiques nouveau!

[iso_55]

 

Seattle is virtual gridlock anywhere on the best of days

 

 

 

went to seattle a few years ago by car, planned a night stay there, almost got hit by a bus on tracks, couldn't believe how horrendous the traffic was, left immediately. I've driven around Los Angeles, it's much easier than Seattle.

 

That place is not laid back.

 

My son's girlfriend lives in Renton, WA & she loves it. Renton is part of Metro Seattle. He drives down from Vancouver to see her & he hates Seattle because of the traffic. It's a beautiful city, don't get me wrong but it's almost gridlock everywhere.

[The Unknown Poster]

the NHL has said they will focus on Vegas and Quebec now.  So i'd say its as much a done deal as can be.  As long as both parties have the cash.  Who's the prospective owner in Vegas?  MGM is a part of it, no?  But not the primary? 

[johnzo]

Interesting (if stale) article about the NBA in Seattle that has NHL ramifications:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kings_staying_in_sacramento_to_wring_out_more_stadium_subsidies.html

According to the article, the NBA rejected moving the Sacramento Kings to Seattle because the proposed Seattle arena would have been mostly privately funded, whereas Sacramento was building its new NBA arena with public money. The league didn't want a precedent on the books of a team owner funding his own arena. They like public money too much for this, and they also like having Seattle as an empty chair for when the music stops again.

(mods, feel free to tell me to shut up about Seattle)

[Mark F]

edit

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

Interesting (if stale) article about the NBA in Seattle that has NHL ramifications:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kings_staying_in_sacramento_to_wring_out_more_stadium_subsidies.html

According to the article, the NBA rejected moving the Sacramento Kings to Seattle because the proposed Seattle arena would have been mostly privately funded, whereas Sacramento was building its new NBA arena with public money. The league didn't want a precedent on the books of a team owner funding his own arena. They like public money too much for this, and they also like having Seattle as an empty chair for when the music stops again.

(mods, feel free to tell me to shut up about Seattle)

 

I understand this from the NBA's pov but damn that is sleazy. Not surprising though.  And as the article points out, it's good for the NBA to have Seattle in the back pocket for when/if another team needs to relocate asap.  But it means poor Seattle could be left hanging for years to come.  As a Jets fan I know the feeling.

[iso_55]

 

Interesting (if stale) article about the NBA in Seattle that has NHL ramifications:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/30/kings_staying_in_sacramento_to_wring_out_more_stadium_subsidies.html

According to the article, the NBA rejected moving the Sacramento Kings to Seattle because the proposed Seattle arena would have been mostly privately funded, whereas Sacramento was building its new NBA arena with public money. The league didn't want a precedent on the books of a team owner funding his own arena. They like public money too much for this, and they also like having Seattle as an empty chair for when the music stops again.

(mods, feel free to tell me to shut up about Seattle)

 

I understand this from the NBA's pov but damn that is sleazy. Not surprising though.  And as the article points out, it's good for the NBA to have Seattle in the back pocket for when/if another team needs to relocate asap.  But it means poor Seattle could be left hanging for years to come.  As a Jets fan I know the feeling.

 

How about the fans in QC? They have a brand new building going up that holds 3,000 more seats than ours & Bettman has hung them out to dry for years. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont think the NHL cares as much about who pays for an arena.  They've helped lobby government for tax payer assistance for sure and one of the reasons they fight so hard in Glendale is because they did lobby so hard to get the taxpayer to build the place and they dont want any other city using that example to say the NHL cut and run.

 

Its beneficial to the league for the government to own an arena.  Look at Atlanta.  Spirit of Atlanta (or whatever they were called) had exclusive rights to operate the arena and since they didnt want to own an NHL team, that killed it.  It wouldnt have mattered if someone else in Atlanta wanted to own the team, there was nowhere to play.

 

Bettman has been pretty consistent in saying a city needs 1) a building 2) an owner 3) fans.  The Jets left Winnipeg because they essentially only had 1 of the three.  The Coyotes are close to having none of the three.

[johnzo]

I dont think the NHL cares as much about who pays for an arena. They've helped lobby government for tax payer assistance for sure and one of the reasons they fight so hard in Glendale is because they did lobby so hard to get the taxpayer to build the place and they dont want any other city using that example to say the NHL cut and run.

I think it's simpler than that. If the Coyotes are on the market and available, that's one less $500MM expansion cheque for the NHL to cash.

The market for half-billion-dollar NHL franchises is super soft. The NHL contacted a number of potential ownership groups and only two could get a bid together. Kansas City, Markham, and Seattle were all supposed to be in the mix but none of them emerged.

I really suspect the league announced expansion when they did because the Coyotes are likely finished in Arizona and the league needs to grab the sweet expansion money before they formally come onto the market.  The timing looks right: expansion was announced less than two weeks after Glenndale terminated the Coyotes' lease.

If I were a prospective NHL owner, I'd say to hell with expansion and wait for the Coyotes to finally get evicted. I'd get a far better team for less money.

[rebusrankin]

How did Quebec finance that arena. Their debt level is brutal.

[The Unknown Poster]

Wiki:

The arena will cost $400 million; 50% of the cost will be covered by the city and province each.[10] On March 1, 2011 Quebecor entered into an agreement to acquire management rights to the new arena, a deal expected to be between $33 million and $63 million up front, plus between $3.15 million and $5 million in annual rent. The value of the deal will increase if an NHL franchise moves into the arena; Quebecor has actively backed an expansion franchise for Quebec City.[11][1] This arrangement was made without public tender, for which the provincial government provided legal immunity.[12]

This is an interesting tidbit about the design:

In an interview for the American magazine Sports Illustrated, Populous architect and lead project designer Kurt Amundsen said that the arena was "absolutely a hockey-first design with the intention of them securing an NHL team in the near future."[15] Amundsen added that the design was specific to Canadian hockey preferences:

It is a steeper and more intimate bowl than you see in the U.S. In Canada they are more about the game than the surrounding events and experiences. They were very adamant they wanted it as steep and tight as it could possibly get. . . . You feel like you are on top of the ice. It is about going into the arena and sitting in a seat and not getting up until the game is over.[15]

The angle of the upper seating bowl is so steep that rails had to be installed at every row to satisfy local building code requirements.[15]

[FrostyWinnipeg]

In an interview for the American magazine Sports Illustrated, Populous architect and lead project designer Kurt Amundsen said that the arena was "absolutely a hockey-first design with the intention of them securing an NHL team in the near future."[15] Amundsen added that the design was specific to Canadian hockey preferences:

It is a steeper and more intimate bowl than you see in the U.S. In Canada they are more about the game than the surrounding events and experiences. They were very adamant they wanted it as steep and tight as it could possibly get. . . . You feel like you are on top of the ice. It is about going into the arena and sitting in a seat and not getting up until the game is over.[15]

The angle of the upper seating bowl is so steep that rails had to be installed at every row to satisfy local building code requirements.[15]

That is crazy.

[iso_55]

In an interview for the American magazine Sports Illustrated, Populous architect and lead project designer Kurt Amundsen said that the arena was "absolutely a hockey-first design with the intention of them securing an NHL team in the near future."[15] Amundsen added that the design was specific to Canadian hockey preferences:

It is a steeper and more intimate bowl than you see in the U.S. In Canada they are more about the game than the surrounding events and experiences. They were very adamant they wanted it as steep and tight as it could possibly get. . . . You feel like you are on top of the ice. It is about going into the arena and sitting in a seat and not getting up until the game is over.[15]

The angle of the upper seating bowl is so steep that rails had to be installed at every row to satisfy local building code requirements.[15]

That is crazy.

We had that at the old Arena. We had railings in front of us where I sat. It was nuts & dangerous. I stumbled once going down the stairs where I had my season tickets in the east upper deck & tumbled forward down the stairs for about five rows. Luckily other than a few scrapes & bruises I was okay. That was scary as the upper decks in the Winnipeg Arena were steep.

[The Unknown Poster]

I always found the old arena so steep that if you fell down the stairs there was a real risk of going over the side to the lower bowl which would surely kill you and potentially anyone below you.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

The railings kind of remind me of old Maple Leaf Gardens.

[The Unknown Poster]

SI article suggests an All Canadian division.  Isnt that pretty much the worst thing for those team as far as travel goes?

[FrostyWinnipeg]

SI article suggests an All Canadian division.  Isnt that pretty much the worst thing for those team as far as travel goes?

Me no like but then I remember the Smythe Division.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

SI article suggests an All Canadian division.  Isnt that pretty much the worst thing for those team as far as travel goes?

Me no like but then I remember the Smythe Division.

 

I could handle Winnipeg sharing a division with the Alberta teams.  *Maybe* even throw Vancouver in there (though Vancouver wouldnt like it) but a cross continent division?  Jets might as well go back to the South East division.  Not gonna happen, I'd suspect.

[bb.king]

Here's a link from the twitter feed on the side recapping the old Quebec Nordiques. I always loved their uniforms, and I really like the logo they were apparently going to use if they hadn't moved to Colorado. I'm not sure if I like the rest of the proposed uniform, but the logo is cool.

http://www2.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?A%2bdetailed%2brememberance%2bof%2bthe%2bQuebec%2bNordiques&id=552526

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Here's a link from the twitter feed on the side recapping the old Quebec Nordiques. I always loved their uniforms, and I really like the logo they were apparently going to use if they hadn't moved to Colorado. I'm not sure if I like the rest of the proposed uniform, but the logo is cool.

http://www2.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?A%2bdetailed%2brememberance%2bof%2bthe%2bQuebec%2bNordiques&id=552526

Borrowing a bit of the Timeberwolves dog. I liked the Nords uni's too but the logo is dated.

[AtlanticRiderFan]

Las Vegas and Quebec have been invited to phase 2 of the expansion process.

[The Unknown Poster]

Las Vegas and Quebec have been invited to phase 2 of the expansion process.

Has to be a done deal.  Both cities have buildings and wealthy ownership groups.  We know the NHL wants to go to Vegas.  They literally have no choice now but to go with Quebec.  I suspect they will make Quebec play in the west for a couple of years.