U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of same-sex marriage nationwide

[The Unknown Poster]

Pretty historic.  Many people around here will shrug and wonder how this is still a debate in 2015.  Sadly, it is.  But the Supreme Court made the right decision.  What surprises me is how there are still highly intelligent public figures on the wrong side of history.

 

The vote was 5-4 down political lines (which disappoints me).

 

In a dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia blasted the Court's "threat to American democracy."

"The substance of today's decree is not of immense personal importance to me," he wrote. "But what really astounds is the hubris reflected in today's judicial Putsch."

 

"If you are among the many Americans—of whatever sexual orientation—who favor expanding same-sex marriage, by all means celebrate today's decision. Celebrate the achievement of a desired goal," he wrote. "Celebrate the opportunity for a new expression of commitment to a partner. Celebrate the availability of new benefits. But do not celebrate the Constitution. It had nothing to do with it.

 

 

I realise the job of the Supreme Court is not to make law but interpret law but how can they be so blatantly on the wrong side here.  Im a conservative and could never be so blinded by a political ideology as to vote against this.

 

With a US federal election looming, the candidates weighed in:

 

"In a country as diverse as ours, good people who have opposing views should be able to live side by side. It is now crucial that as a country we protect religious freedom and the right of conscience and also not discriminate," Bush said in his statement.

 

A very careful statement by Bush.  I like Jeb and I know its politics but have the courage to LEAD.  It gets far worse:

 

Conservative firebrands, including Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, said that conservatives must stand and fight by seeking a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

 

"I will not acquiesce to an imperial court any more than our founders acquiesced to an imperial British monarch. We must resist and reject judicial tyranny, not retreat," Huckabee said in a statement.

 

On the flip side:

 

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said she was "proud" of the ruling.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/politics/supreme-court-same-sex-marriage-ruling/index.html

 

[Rich]

Glad this passed, but horrible that the vote was so close.

[The Unknown Poster]

Glad this passed, but horrible that the vote was so close.

Disgusts me that the court is so political.  If I was President and had to appoint a Supreme Court member I'd scratch off anyone who I knew would always vote "conservative" or "liberal".  They are supposed to be above that.

 

Years from now, those four justices' names will be remembered just as the congressmen who voted against the 13th Amendment.  (To pass, several Democrats had to vote in favour crossing party lines to do so, and thus were on the right side of history).  These justices today...despicable.

[Fraser]

Never understood how someone just trying to their life vioilates your freedoms.

[The Unknown Poster]

Never understood how someone just trying to their life vioilates your freedoms.

They tie it to religion by saying gay marriage violates religious freedom which is really a pretty galling argument.  But you're right, how does this impact any of these losers that are against it?  Its a control thing.  "If ya wanna be gay, fine but you aint gettin married."  What the F difference does it make to YOU?  Ugh

 

My parents church has a unique opinion.  They accept that gay people are born that way, thus created that way by God.  And so it is not a sin to be gay, just a sin to do gay things.  *rolls eyes*.  An otherwise good church and my parents are pretty liberal so no judgements...lol  But what a bizarre way to look at things.

[basslicker]

Hillary is a joke. Up until two years ago she was against it and now, for political reasons, she's 'proud' of it.

Nothing I hate more than flip flopping.

Stand by your beliefs, even if people disagree with you. Differing opinions are still allowed in our society.......well, sort of. Many are vilified for disagreeing. Land of the free indeed.

[Taynted_Fayth]

good on em for making it legal, but I have a feeling it'll still be a long time before those opposed to it dont try to rain on peoples parades anyways. Americans (or much of mankind) have difficulty coming to terms with change and fully embracing, especially religious fanatics which are a plenty down south. 

 

**side note, I watched the live speech from Obama interrupting the show I was watching,  man listening to him talk is about the equivalent to watching paint dry

[Fraser]

and another thing, that little dugger creep was seriously on a "council" taking a stance on whether gay people should be able adopt kids? You know who shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids? Child molesters.

[Mark H.]

I'm quite willing to live and let live, but I've also been told to park my religious beliefs at the door. I had not said or done anything harmful or hateful. Tolerance is a two way street.

[Taynted_Fayth]

who the hell are these Duggers? I just recently deleted a chick off my fb cuz every day for the last 2 months she's post pics of these people and some kinda bring back the Duggers to TLC. I considered that spamming my FB news feed so ban hammer time

[The Unknown Poster]

Dugger is a whole different discussion.  Im not sure his actions necessarily brand him a child molester in the sense that that would normally imply.  I'd have to review more details of the case.

 

As for public acceptance, polls show 2/3rd of Americans now support gay marriage with that number rising all the time.

 

I dont know if Hillary is a flip flopper or someone who's opinion has changed.  Its an interesting time.  There will be people alive today who were always raised, taught, led to believe etc that being gay was wrong or a choice or whatever.  Those people can become enlightened over time and change their minds.  A lot of us see it as utterly stupid to ever think being gay is "wrong" but if you're in your 20's and 30's, a different society then people in their 60's and 70's.  But I agree about political lines.  And it works both ways.  Im sure there are conservatives who are thrilled with todays ruling but cant say so.

[basslicker]

I'm quite willing to live and let live, but I've also been told to park my religious beliefs at the door. I had not said or done anything harmful or hateful. Tolerance is a two way street.

It's only going to get worse for those of us who have faith.

I'm not out there condemning people or worse, becoming violent about it.

That doesn't mean I have to accept it as normal. The people who I'll fight are those who attack me for not falling in line and forcing me to accept their ways. Like you said.....tolerance should be a two way street. But it never is.

[The Unknown Poster]

I'm quite willing to live and let live, but I've also been told to park my religious beliefs at the door. I had not said or done anything harmful or hateful. Tolerance is a two way street.

Absolutely.  Within reason.  If someone's religious believes are that being gay is "wrong", "immoral", "abomination", then thats not much of a religion.  One can believe anything they want.  There are people who believe women are lesser than men, or that black people are inferior.  They have the right to that opinion.  But they're still wrong.

[basslicker]

Dugger is a whole different discussion. Im not sure his actions necessarily brand him a child molester in the sense that that would normally imply. I'd have to review more details of the case.

As for public acceptance, polls show 2/3rd of Americans now support gay marriage with that number rising all the time.

I dont know if Hillary is a flip flopper or someone who's opinion has changed. Its an interesting time. There will be people alive today who were always raised, taught, led to believe etc that being gay was wrong or a choice or whatever. Those people can become enlightened over time and change their minds. A lot of us see it as utterly stupid to ever think being gay is "wrong" but if you're in your 20's and 30's, a different society then people in their 60's and 70's. But I agree about political lines. And it works both ways. Im sure there are conservatives who are thrilled with todays ruling but cant say so.

Yes she is a flip flopper.

http://gawker.com/remember-when-hillary-clinton-was-against-gay-marriage-1714147439

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I'm quite willing to live and let live, but I've also been told to park my religious beliefs at the door. I had not said or done anything harmful or hateful. Tolerance is a two way street.

It's only going to get worse for those of us who have faith.

I'm not out there condemning people or worse, becoming violent about it.

That doesn't mean I have to accept it as normal. The people who I'll fight are those who attack me for not falling in line and forcing me to accept their ways. Like you said.....tolerance should be a two way street. But it never is.

 

 

I wont attack you personally.  But I am curious.  Are you saying being gay is "abnormal"?  If you were born gay would you pretend to be straight?  I think thats the bottom line for a lot of people...if you are born this way, how can others say its wrong?  What basis exists for that?  Its like saying all red heads are evil. 

[Fraser]

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to  worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Dugger is a whole different discussion. Im not sure his actions necessarily brand him a child molester in the sense that that would normally imply. I'd have to review more details of the case.

As for public acceptance, polls show 2/3rd of Americans now support gay marriage with that number rising all the time.

I dont know if Hillary is a flip flopper or someone who's opinion has changed. Its an interesting time. There will be people alive today who were always raised, taught, led to believe etc that being gay was wrong or a choice or whatever. Those people can become enlightened over time and change their minds. A lot of us see it as utterly stupid to ever think being gay is "wrong" but if you're in your 20's and 30's, a different society then people in their 60's and 70's. But I agree about political lines. And it works both ways. Im sure there are conservatives who are thrilled with todays ruling but cant say so.

Yes she is a flip flopper.

http://gawker.com/remember-when-hillary-clinton-was-against-gay-marriage-1714147439

 

Maybe she changed her mind because she really believes it.  Im not a Democrat so Im not making excuses for political reasons.  Id respect her more if she said "I said those things and I was wrong."  Maybe she has.  I dont get too deep into things until the election starts in earnest.  lol

[basslicker]

This will never end. But that's OK, we can still have a society and not kill each have other.

[Fraser]

Dugger is a whole different discussion.  Im not sure his actions necessarily brand him a child molester in the sense that that would normally imply.  I'd have to review more details of the case.

Well he molested children, not really sure what else that would make him.

[The Unknown Poster]

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to  worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

It was Thomas Jefferson that coined the term separation of church and state:

 

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

 

The political argument against gay marriage seems to come down to wanting religious beliefs to influence how the government treats the matter.  And it shouldnt. 

[basslicker]

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

I can only speak for myself. I don't expect government to make laws according to my beliefs. I know we're in the minority. Doesn't change my beliefs. It just affirms them.

[Fraser]

 

 

I'm quite willing to live and let live, but I've also been told to park my religious beliefs at the door. I had not said or done anything harmful or hateful. Tolerance is a two way street.

Absolutely. Within reason. If someone's religious believes are that being gay is "wrong", "immoral", "abomination", then thats not much of a religion. One can believe anything they want. There are people who believe women are lesser than men, or that black people are inferior. They have the right to that opinion. But they're still wrong.

How can you 'absolutely' then immediately say otherwise? I think all those things and am people not permitted my own thoughts?

What is discouraging is fake tolerance.

we don't have to all agree. Heck, we dont even have to like each other. We just have to tolerate each other.

 

I'd say whats really discouraging is bigorty not fake tolerance

[kelownabomberfan]

(To pass, several Democrats had to vote in favour crossing party lines to do so, and thus were on the right side of history).

Actually, if you watch the movie "Lincoln", a lot of the Democrats voted in favour of the 13th Amendment because they had lost the election in November and were going to be out of a job come the end of January. That's why Lincoln chose that strategic time to launch the 13th Amendment debate, and vote, because a lot of Democrats were vulnerable to being bribed to vote the "right" way, which of course was to abolish slavery. It was unfortunate that people had to be bribed to vote to abolish slavery, but things were a lot different in the world 150 years ago.

[basslicker]

Yeah she's a band wagon jumper in the first degree. Presidential candidates always are. Lol

[The Unknown Poster]

Fake tolerance is lovely eh?

You say absolutely but I think you mean 'agree with me or else'

How can one argue for others to be tolerant of intolerance?  If you can, by all means please do so.  I love a good debate. :-)

 

I was being somewhat facetious by saying "Absolutely.  Within reason".  Does the KKK deserve our tolerance?  They have the right to believe anything they want.  But who here is willing to say society should allow, or be tolerant, of their words and actions?

 

In 2015, how can anyone justify being against gay people?  If you believe being gay is a choice, that would explain it.  But thats too easy to dismiss.  People used to believe slavery was okay and slave owners wanted others to be tolerant of their position.  Thankfully, people chose not to be tolerant. 

 

I know there are people against this.  And none of us can change their minds.  But its the wrong side of history my friend.  My wife isnt property.  My black friends arent inferior.  And being gay isnt wrong.