U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of same-sex marriage nationwide

[The Unknown Poster]

 

(To pass, several Democrats had to vote in favour crossing party lines to do so, and thus were on the right side of history).

Actually, if you watch the movie "Lincoln", a lot of the Democrats voted in favour of the 13th Amendment because they had lost the election in November and were going to be out of a job come the end of January. That's why Lincoln chose that strategic time to launch the 13th Amendment debate, and vote, because a lot of Democrats were vulnerable to being bribed to vote the "right" way, which of course was to abolish slavery. It was unfortunate that people had to be bribed to vote to abolish slavery, but things were a lot different in the world 150 years ago.

 

150 years from now people will look back and say "can you believe people were against gays getting married?"

[Atomic]

I don't understand the argument from people who are against gay marriage.  What are you worried about?

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

I can only speak for myself. I don't expect government to make laws according to my beliefs. I know we're in the minority. Doesn't change my beliefs. It just affirms them.

 

Im not sure being in the minority should affirm your beliefs.  Perhaps it should cause you to reexamine them.

 

@kelownabomberfan

 

I knew that would come up! lol  I love Lincoln.  I think its the finest performance by an actor in film history.  And as "immoral" as Lincoln's efforts might have been, he did the right thing.  And surely some of the Democrats who voted in favor actually believed it.  The movie even shows some Democrats who "got it" but the political pressure was huge.  Its tough watching that film and seeing them argue that freeing the slaves would lead to black people wanting *gasp* the vote!  Crazy.

 

And Fraser, you're right.  Bigotry trumps tolerance.  One should not be tolerant of hate or bigotry.

[kelownabomberfan]

OK, so hopefully this is a great step in moving the US forward. Next step - the rest of the world:

 

 

 Other crimes, such as being a homosexual or blasphemy against Islam’s Muhammad, are also punishable by death. Gay activists estimate that some 4,000 alleged gays have been executed by Iran since its 1979 Islamic Revolution.

 

[basslicker]

Fake tolerance is lovely eh?

You say absolutely but I think you mean 'agree with me or else'

How can one argue for others to be tolerant of intolerance? If you can, by all means please do so. I love a good debate. :-)

I was being somewhat facetious by saying "Absolutely. Within reason". Does the KKK deserve our tolerance? They have the right to believe anything they want. But who here is willing to say society should allow, or be tolerant, of their words and actions?

In 2015, how can anyone justify being against gay people? If you believe being gay is a choice, that would explain it. But thats too easy to dismiss. People used to believe slavery was okay and slave owners wanted others to be tolerant of their position. Thankfully, people chose not to be tolerant.

I know there are people against this. And none of us can change their minds. But its the wrong side of history my friend. My wife isnt property. My black friends arent inferior. And being gay isnt wrong.

Using the kkk example is not valid. I'm not out there killing people and burning crosses.

Yeah I believe being gay is unnatural. So arrest me.

my faith is along these lines:

Hate the sin and love the sinner. And being we're all sinners......we should show love to all. I tolerate gays and others who I don't agree with. The government doesn't rule my mind or make my decisions.

[basslicker]

OK, so hopefully this is a great step in moving the US forward. Next step - the rest of the world:

Other crimes, such as being a homosexual or blasphemy against Islam’s Muhammad, are also punishable by death. Gay activists estimate that some 4,000 alleged gays have been executed by Iran since its 1979 Islamic Revolution.

I'd definitely rather have gay marriage be legal and me disagree with it than having them rounded up and killed.

poor souls.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

I can only speak for myself. I don't expect government to make laws according to my beliefs. I know we're in the minority. Doesn't change my beliefs. It just affirms them.

 

Im not sure being in the minority should affirm your beliefs.  Perhaps it should cause you to reexamine them.

 

@kelownabomberfan

 

I knew that would come up! lol  I love Lincoln.  I think its the finest performance by an actor in film history.  And as "immoral" as Lincoln's efforts might have been, he did the right thing.  And surely some of the Democrats who voted in favor actually believed it.  The movie even shows some Democrats who "got it" but the political pressure was huge.  Its tough watching that film and seeing them argue that freeing the slaves would lead to black people wanting *gasp* the vote!  Crazy.

 

And Fraser, you're right.  Bigotry trumps tolerance.  One should not be tolerant of hate or bigotry.

 

 

If you liked Lincoln you should watch Selma.  Really powerful film.  It was interesting to see how even though the South allowed black people to vote, the local administrators wouldn't issue them voting cards.  I didn't know that until I watched the movie.  There sure is a lot of hatred down in the US South.  And we just saw that again last week.

[basslicker]

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

I can only speak for myself. I don't expect government to make laws according to my beliefs. I know we're in the minority. Doesn't change my beliefs. It just affirms them.

Im not sure being in the minority should affirm your beliefs. Perhaps it should cause you to reexamine them.

@kelownabomberfan

I knew that would come up! lol I love Lincoln. I think its the finest performance by an actor in film history. And as "immoral" as Lincoln's efforts might have been, he did the right thing. And surely some of the Democrats who voted in favor actually believed it. The movie even shows some Democrats who "got it" but the political pressure was huge. Its tough watching that film and seeing them argue that freeing the slaves would lead to black people wanting *gasp* the vote! Crazy.

And Fraser, you're right. Bigotry trumps tolerance. One should not be tolerant of hate or bigotry.

So you're saying minority thinkers should change because the majority told them to? Talk to many natives lately?

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

Fake tolerance is lovely eh?

You say absolutely but I think you mean 'agree with me or else'

How can one argue for others to be tolerant of intolerance? If you can, by all means please do so. I love a good debate. :-)

I was being somewhat facetious by saying "Absolutely. Within reason". Does the KKK deserve our tolerance? They have the right to believe anything they want. But who here is willing to say society should allow, or be tolerant, of their words and actions?

In 2015, how can anyone justify being against gay people? If you believe being gay is a choice, that would explain it. But thats too easy to dismiss. People used to believe slavery was okay and slave owners wanted others to be tolerant of their position. Thankfully, people chose not to be tolerant.

I know there are people against this. And none of us can change their minds. But its the wrong side of history my friend. My wife isnt property. My black friends arent inferior. And being gay isnt wrong.

Using the kkk example is not valid. I'm not out there killing people and burning crosses.

Yeah I believe being gay is unnatural. So arrest me.

my faith is along these lines:

Hate the sin and love the sinner. And being we're all sinners......we should show love to all. I tolerate gays and others who I don't agree with. The government doesn't rule my mind or make my decisions.

 

Not all racists are doing that either.

 

Are you saying you're disappointed with today's ruling?  Because if so...and if it went to a referendum in Canada and you'd vote against gay marriage then its not just a matter of "opinion" its actions impacting others.  I think thats the part people dont understand... think what you want but why would you vote against gay marriage, why would you deny the right for two people in love to get married?  How does gay marriage impact you that you want it disallowed?

 

If your son or daughter was gay and getting married would you disagree with that, not attend?  Would you walk her daughter down the aisle if she was marrying another woman?  Im not trying to get overly personal, just intrigued by the discussion (and I respect you having the courage to admit your feelings on this).

[Fraser]

Everyone should examine their beliefs all the time, minority or majority.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

(To pass, several Democrats had to vote in favour crossing party lines to do so, and thus were on the right side of history).

Actually, if you watch the movie "Lincoln", a lot of the Democrats voted in favour of the 13th Amendment because they had lost the election in November and were going to be out of a job come the end of January. That's why Lincoln chose that strategic time to launch the 13th Amendment debate, and vote, because a lot of Democrats were vulnerable to being bribed to vote the "right" way, which of course was to abolish slavery. It was unfortunate that people had to be bribed to vote to abolish slavery, but things were a lot different in the world 150 years ago.

 

150 years from now people will look back and say "can you believe people were against gays getting married?"

 

 

Given current demographic trends, it's highly likely that in 150 years they will be saying "can you believe that 150 years ago gays were allowed to marry, instead of being executed on the spot?  Praise Allah that we now live in a world-wide Calphiphate.  Oh look at the time, we almost missed the daily infidel cage-burning".

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

I'm perfectly tolerant of people's rights to worship how they see fit. I don't have any patience for them expecting those beliefs to extend to, or govern society in any way. Especially if they are using their beliefs to deny anyone else their basic rights.

I can only speak for myself. I don't expect government to make laws according to my beliefs. I know we're in the minority. Doesn't change my beliefs. It just affirms them.

Im not sure being in the minority should affirm your beliefs. Perhaps it should cause you to reexamine them.

@kelownabomberfan

I knew that would come up! lol I love Lincoln. I think its the finest performance by an actor in film history. And as "immoral" as Lincoln's efforts might have been, he did the right thing. And surely some of the Democrats who voted in favor actually believed it. The movie even shows some Democrats who "got it" but the political pressure was huge. Its tough watching that film and seeing them argue that freeing the slaves would lead to black people wanting *gasp* the vote! Crazy.

And Fraser, you're right. Bigotry trumps tolerance. One should not be tolerant of hate or bigotry.

So you're saying minority thinkers should change because the majority told them to? Talk to many natives lately?

 

Not what Im saying at all.  If you apply common sense to a widely held opinion you can make a fairly insightful decision.  A massive majority of people sharing an opinion doesnt make them right, but it makes their opinion worth considering.  And again, we're applying common sense.

 

Also, not sure what Aboriginals have to do with this topic.  I speak to Aboriginals on a regular basis as I have siblings and friends who Aboriginal and Metis.

[basslicker]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="The Unknown Poster" data-cid="128745" data-time="1435348579"><p><p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="basslicker" data-cid="128733" data-time="1435348153"><p>I'd attend the wedding because I would love my child no matter what. Doesn't mean I have to agree with their choices. Christians aren't supposed to hate anyone and I don't. But murderers and the like make it difficult. I pray they see their sins and try to atone. As for gay, I treat it like other sin. Pray they find their path God planned for them.

[basslicker]

What is with the block quote thing? Is that because I'm on the mobile version?

[The Unknown Poster]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="The Unknown Poster" data-cid="128745" data-time="1435348579"><p><p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="basslicker" data-cid="128733" data-time="1435348153"><p>I'd attend the wedding because I would love my child no matter what. Doesn't mean I have to agree with their choices. Christians aren't supposed to hate anyone and I don't. But murderers and the like make it difficult. I pray they see their sins and try to atone. As for gay, I treat it like other sin. Pray they find their path God planned for them.

God planned for them to be Gay.

[Taynted_Fayth]

so now that gays and lesbians are given all the same rights as everyone else, does that mean no more rainbow parades?

 

I say that in jest, but one thing that bothers me is people, be it homosexuals, women, minorities, adamant push for equality,  once they are given their equality (and rightfully so), they seem to still make it a point to stand out and either milk it to gain leverage, or just be different.  I might be wrong,  but wasn't gay pride to show how many ppl are either that way, or indifferent to their life style and celebrate the "we're here we're *****, get used to it."  As far as i know the gay marriage was the only thing that was holding anyone back, and now they can have the same opportunity as straight marriage.  Hatred and bigotry will always exist as its human nature. Just as much as Ive been called a cracker, or white boy. I dont hold it against an entire group of people or the establishment in some cases, I just know some people are gonna be Dbags and use obvious differences as tool to fuel that hatred.

 

I'd say this change is a staple that "we got used to it" so is the parade just another reason for people to dress up like weirdos? 420 at the leg used to be about showing the government how many people are in support for legalizing weed, I'd honestly say for a long time now, people just go to the leg to party and get stoned and couldn't care less if any laws change

[kelownabomberfan]

I think Gay Pride parades are here to stay.  I would assume the justification would be (and I agree with it) that after so many years of being discriminated against, gay people want to be able to celebrate who they are in a public environment.  And I fully support them in doing that.

[The Unknown Poster]

Gay pride started as a protest.

 

I will say this about gay pride.  I've been involved in the last three in Winnipeg (marching, drove a float this year).  And I like the parade a lot more than I like the party at the Forks.  Walking the parade and seeing a very diverse crowd of people of different ages (from babies to the elderly), different skin colours and ethnicity, it's really heart warming.

 

Going to the forks and seeing topless teenagers, drug use, drunks and sex toys...not really on the same wave length as far as fighting for equality.  Though I suppose the right to be topless is an equal rights issue (lol).

 

But generally speaking, its harmless fun for a good cause. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I think Gay Pride parades are here to stay.  I would assume the justification would be (and I agree with it) that after so many years of being discriminated against, gay people want to be able to celebrate who they are in a public environment.  And I fully support them in doing that.

Realistically, gay couple should be able to hold hands walking down the street, sit on a bench and kiss...etc every day.  But it still happens that they are victims of intolerance when doing so.  The Gay Pride parade and Forks party is an environment to be as open and comfortable as they want with ZERO fear...and in fact to just be surrounded with supporters.  I imagine its a wonderful feeling for them.

[basslicker]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="The Unknown Poster" data-cid="128745" data-time="1435348579"><p><p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="basslicker" data-cid="128733" data-time="1435348153"><p>I'd attend the wedding because I would love my child no matter what. Doesn't mean I have to agree with their choices. Christians aren't supposed to hate anyone and I don't. But murderers and the like make it difficult. I pray they see their sins and try to atone. As for gay, I treat it like other sin. Pray they find their path God planned for them.

God planned for them to be Gay.

Or maybe he gave them tendencies in which to overcome.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I woulld still argue,  like 420 at the Leg, the cause is lost on the majority of ppl taking part, and it's more about a generally accepted occasion where people can go party downtown for free, and be, for lack of a better word, ******** and rarely face any kind of scrutiny.  Like you said, nudity, sex toys,  drug use,  what does that have to do with fighting for equality? if these people did it any other time but at a giant gathering of people knowing generally police dont do much because the #'s are too overwhelming to rile the crowd with arrests,  those people who get their ass thrown in the back of a cruiser without hesistation

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="The Unknown Poster" data-cid="128745" data-time="1435348579"><p><p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="basslicker" data-cid="128733" data-time="1435348153"><p>I'd attend the wedding because I would love my child no matter what. Doesn't mean I have to agree with their choices. Christians aren't supposed to hate anyone and I don't. But murderers and the like make it difficult. I pray they see their sins and try to atone. As for gay, I treat it like other sin. Pray they find their path God planned for them.

God planned for them to be Gay.

Or maybe he gave them tendencies in which to overcome.

 

You believe in a God that would decree that being gay is a vile sin and yet create so many people that are gay by their very nature and then demand of them that they live a life subjected to hate, wanting them to be unhappy and live a lie for His enjoyment? 

 

Perhaps the tendency to overcome that God has instilled is yours. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I woulld still argue,  like 420 at the Leg, the cause is lost on the majority of ppl taking part, and it's more about a generally accepted occasion where people can go party downtown for free, and be, for lack of a better word, ******** and rarely face any kind of scrutiny.  Like you said, nudity, sex toys,  drug use,  what does that have to do with fighting for equality? if these people did it any other time but at a giant gathering of people knowing generally police dont do much because the #'s are too overwhelming to rile the crowd with arrests,  those people who get their ass thrown in the back of a cruiser without hesistation

4/20 at the Leg I can agree with.  But Pride...I honestly believe the vast majority of people there were there to support the cause.

[Taynted_Fayth]

there are plenty of ppl out for a good time and are well behaved, but I find it hypocritical to say we want to be treated like everyone else yet make it an in your face Hey Were different!!! occasion.  I've lost out of jobs to people of visible minority  and to women in the past, Ive also been to parties where I've had a gay guy bash me because I drank beer and wore jeans with holes in them, guess I wasnt Metrosexual enough for his personal taste of drinking wine and dressing more clean cut, but I dont take those incidents as anything more then assholes are gonna be assholes, I dont start a rally for straight white males that have been discriminated against,  and you can bet your ass it happens,  especially in todays day and age where all equality has proven is it tipped the scales the other way. 

 

Im a nice tolerant guy and I have friends from all walks of life. I know historically a lot of white people have been the face behind the hate, but I often joke,  being a young healthy white male is the worst thing you can possibly be in canada now. It's not a woes me or dont think those who've been done wrong dont deserve a fair chance they should have got all along, but true equality is an imaginary concept. Everyone no matter what will always feel slighted when things dont go their way, and sadly, everyone will always look at why they lost out and immediately blame the obvious.  

[Taynted_Fayth]

Back to the point here, what really other then gay marriage was being denied from gay people? They dont ask your sexual orientation in job interviews,  theres no gays only bathrooms, gay people can vote, gay people can travel, own property...ect Have they been discriminated against sure, but I often think most of it is just social hate crimes,  like in school,  and kids picking on the kid with a lisp, or the small guy or skin colour, physical attributes you cant escape from. in my personal experience if someone was being picked on for being gay, it was because they were very flamboyant with it,  and made themselves out to be an easy target. I believe people should be themselves, but I also believe in a time and a place mentality for when to really let loose, and when to be more reserved.  Im a foul mouthed sarcastic off colour humor type guy, that when im with my buddies at a party, I'll hold back nothing,  but if I was in a job interview or at a place you generally know its a type of environment where i need to conduct myself a little more proper, it's night and day.