[MERGED] Drew Willy Watch And Fine Discussion

[Jacquie]

 

 

 

World-renowned concussion expert says Bombers on thin ice with decision to bring Drew Willy back quickly from head injury
 
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/07/07/world-renowned-concussion-expert-says-bombers-on-thin-ice-with-decision-to-bring-drew-willy-back-quickly-from-head-injury

You know.. Cuz he tested willy and did all the tests on him.. Smh.

Guys getting his name out there by rocking the boat. Sure, you could argue the bombers and willy are pushing the limit but again, if he passed ALL baseline tests after hit and then days again later.. What's the issue here?

 

 

Easy to say but you have to admit that both O'Shea and Willy have been less than forthright in this matter, describing the injury only as "upper body" and avoiding using the word "concussion" at all.  Both Willy and O'Shea have said that he never lost consciousness and yet he lay motionless for at least 2 mins. and the photo clearly shows his eyes are closed.  Willy was standing in the tunnel still in full gear within 20 minutes of being laid out so if they did go through the proper concussion protocol the results were already somewhat predetermined.  In Willy's own words he was ready to return to the game for the 2nd half but the medical staff held him out.

 

As the article explains the real danger for Willy is in the next game, were even a minor tackle could lead to more serious damage.  It wasn't that many years ago that Buck Pierce returned to play in games in which he had been obviously concussed.  So yes the CFL is taking steps in the right direction but those steps are still guarded by self-interest and the traditions of professional sports and not based on the best scientific evidence.  Fans may cheer but it is Willy who has to ultimately pay the price.

 

The photo proves nothing. He could have been mid-blink when it was taken for all we know.

 

 

Pretty clear divide here. You have one side who is concerned about the health and wellbeing of the players and one side who wants nothing more than to win a football game at all costs. Maybe it's time to re-examine which side you want to be on.

 

Everyone is concerned about the health and well-being of players. The divide is people who think the doctors who have actually examined a player know what they are doing and the other side are people who think they know more than those doctors.

[GCn20]

 

 

 

 

World-renowned concussion expert says Bombers on thin ice with decision to bring Drew Willy back quickly from head injury

 

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/07/07/world-renowned-concussion-expert-says-bombers-on-thin-ice-with-decision-to-bring-drew-willy-back-quickly-from-head-injury

You know.. Cuz he tested willy and did all the tests on him.. Smh.

Guys getting his name out there by rocking the boat. Sure, you could argue the bombers and willy are pushing the limit but again, if he passed ALL baseline tests after hit and then days again later.. What's the issue here?

 

 

Easy to say but you have to admit that both O'Shea and Willy have been less than forthright in this matter, describing the injury only as "upper body" and avoiding using the word "concussion" at all.  Both Willy and O'Shea have said that he never lost consciousness and yet he lay motionless for at least 2 mins. and the photo clearly shows his eyes are closed.  Willy was standing in the tunnel still in full gear within 20 minutes of being laid out so if they did go through the proper concussion protocol the results were already somewhat predetermined.  In Willy's own words he was ready to return to the game for the 2nd half but the medical staff held him out.

 

As the article explains the real danger for Willy is in the next game, were even a minor tackle could lead to more serious damage.  It wasn't that many years ago that Buck Pierce returned to play in games in which he had been obviously concussed.  So yes the CFL is taking steps in the right direction but those steps are still guarded by self-interest and the traditions of professional sports and not based on the best scientific evidence.  Fans may cheer but it is Willy who has to ultimately pay the price.

 

The photo proves nothing. He could have been mid-blink when it was taken for all we know.

 

 

Pretty clear divide here. You have one side who is concerned about the health and wellbeing of the players and one side who wants nothing more than to win a football game at all costs. Maybe it's time to re-examine which side you want to be on.

 

Everyone is concerned about the health and well-being of players. The divide is people who think the doctors who have actually examined a player know what they are doing and the other side are people who think they know more than those doctors.

 

 

 

QFT

[WBBFanWest]

If we assume that everyone is acting in good faith, then with the protocols as they now exist, the doctors have cleared Willy to play.  I'm not real surprised that they found a doctor out there who disagrees with the way concussions are dealt with in pro sports, because clearly, there have been issues in the past.  But nevertheless, the doctors cleared Willy and I would find it very hard to believe that if they had any doubts about his condition, they would do that, especially with all the attention that concussions and sport get now.  

 

Lastly, always remember that Willy has a responsibility to himself.  Yes he's a pro athlete, but if he's got any concerns about his condition or their diagnosis, then he's the one who has to speak up.  If he feels that he's being pressured into coming back too soon (and I'm not suggesting thats happened), if he doesn't speak up, he's made his choice.

 

So it seems to me that everyone who should have a say in this has said that he's good to go.  That's good enough for me. 

[mbrg]

What a terrible article by Friesen.

 

Having not read the article, I already know this single sentence isn't just an opinion but a fact, should be turned into a sticky and added to the front page of MBB, applies to 70% of all content from this writer, and the expense associated with adding this sentence to the covers all encyclopedias published since 1982 should be studied as the cost to society of reading this dullard's work is likely far greater, just in case someone ever looks at an encyclopedia again.

[GCn20]

If we assume that everyone is acting in good faith, then with the protocols as they now exist, the doctors have cleared Willy to play.  I'm not real surprised that they found a doctor out there who disagrees with the way concussions are dealt with in pro sports, because clearly, there have been issues in the past.  But nevertheless, the doctors cleared Willy and I would find it very hard to believe that if they had any doubts about his condition, they would do that, especially with all the attention that concussions and sport get getting now.  

 

Lastly, always remember that Willy has a responsibility to himself.  Yes he's a pro athlete, but if he's got any concerns about his condition or their diagnosis, then he's the one who has to speak up.  If he feels that he's being pressured into coming back too soon (and I'm not suggesting that's happened), if he doesn't speak up, he's made his choice.

 

So it seems to me that everyone who should have a say in this has said that he's good to go.  That's good enough for me. 

 

I find it monumentally difficult to believe that Willy would jeopardize his career, by hiding symptoms or misleading doctors, to start game 3 of the season. I find it even more difficult to believe that any of the parties involved would have him start Friday if even the tiniest symptoms of concussion existed and without all due diligence.

[Valderan_CA]

Just as a counter-point to the "obviously TKO'd Willy"  - from personal experience with a semi-serious head to arm collision playing Ultimate (my head, other dudes arm... totally my fault for loss of body control)

 

Collision happened, loud enough smack that people across the field heard it - broke both bones in the guy I hit's forearm.

 

Immediately after the collision I flopped back onto the ground and was pretty motionless while I was kind of internally checking myself to see if I had hurt anything (also trying to get my contact lense back onto my eyeball by blinking).

 

Everybody on my team thought I had been knocked out cold until they got closer (I.E. some bombers on the field could easily think he had been knocked out while he was really just staying still because his neck felt hurt and he wanted the med staff there to check it out)

[GCn20]

 

What a terrible article by Friesen.

 

Having not read the article, I already know this single sentence isn't just an opinion but a fact, should be turned into a sticky and added to the front page of MBB, applies to 70% of all content from this writer, and the expense associated with adding this sentence to the covers all encyclopedias published since 1982 should be studied as the cost to society of reading this dullard's work is likely far greater, just in case someone ever looks at an encyclopedia again.

 

 

70%? Only 70%? That kind of optimism in his journalistic ability qualifies you for president of his fan club.

[GCn20]

Just as a counter-point to the "obviously TKO'd Willy"  - from personal experience with a semi-serious head to arm collision playing Ultimate (my head, other dudes arm... totally my fault for loss of body control)

 

Collision happened, loud enough smack that people across the field heard it - broke both bones in the guy I hit's forearm.

 

Immediately after the collision I flopped back onto the ground and was pretty motionless while I was kind of internally checking myself to see if I had hurt anything (also trying to get my contact lense back onto my eyeball by blinking).

 

Everybody on my team thought I had been knocked out cold until they got closer (I.E. some bombers on the field could easily think he had been knocked out while he was really just staying still because his neck felt hurt and he wanted the med staff there to check it out)

 

For sure. Also, there is a nerve along the side of the neck that if impacted will cause temporary paralysis. Not saying that was the case, but it is a possibility. So much we don't know....most of it because none of us were, you know, actually involved in any way in the injury, diagnosis, or follow up care.

[Tracker]

Having worked as an EMT for a few years, the default assumption is that if there is any doubt, the event is to be treated as a concussion until assessed by a doctor otherwise. No doubt that will be the Bomber's position as well, and with this huge lawsuit in progress, I cannot see Willy being allowed to practice, let alone play if there is any doubt.

[mbrg]

Having worked as an EMT for a few years, the default assumption is that if there is any doubt, the event is to be treated as a concussion until assessed by a doctor otherwise. No doubt that will be the Bomber's position as well, and with this huge lawsuit in progress, I cannot see Willy being allowed to practice, let alone play if there is any doubt.

 

He wouldn't even have been allowed out into the tunnel to stand there and watch the game if there had been any doubt.

[The Unknown Poster]

I am not disputed the fact that he may have passed a post injury protocol and be cleared to now play. That isn't the issue. Agree or not he was unconscious and was concussed. Whatever happens Friday or in a subsequent game will not alter that fact nor will it change if he is perhaps at a greater risk for second concussion syndrome. The injury is what it is and if he has satisfied the criteria for return to play let him play.

Has it been reported he was unconscious and concussed?

[bearpants]

 

I am not disputed the fact that he may have passed a post injury protocol and be cleared to now play. That isn't the issue. Agree or not he was unconscious and was concussed. Whatever happens Friday or in a subsequent game will not alter that fact nor will it change if he is perhaps at a greater risk for second concussion syndrome. The injury is what it is and if he has satisfied the criteria for return to play let him play.

Has it been reported he was unconscious and concussed?

 

 

No... except by all the concussion experts on social media and this forum 

[mbrg]

 

I am not disputed the fact that he may have passed a post injury protocol and be cleared to now play. That isn't the issue. Agree or not he was unconscious and was concussed. Whatever happens Friday or in a subsequent game will not alter that fact nor will it change if he is perhaps at a greater risk for second concussion syndrome. The injury is what it is and if he has satisfied the criteria for return to play let him play.

Has it been reported he was unconscious and concussed?

 

 

The people who would know reported that he was conscious and had no concussion.

 

Just to clear up any confusion in the future, new policies are in place - any player who is injured will immediately be dragged to his feet and forced to stare into the nearest TV camera without blinking for 30 seconds before receiving any further medical treatment, so all the amateur doctors at home and on the internet can also make a diagnosis.

[TBURGESS]

I agree with Doug Browns assessment... If you believe Willy wasn't knocked out, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Willy saying he wasn't out, is more than a little suspect.  Either he doesn't know that he was out or he's saying what he needs to say to get back in the game.  Dude wasn't on the field with his eyes closed taking a quick nap.

 

The Bombers didn't report it as a concussion.... they reported it as an 'Upper Body Injury'.  

 

The reporters and most folks on this site saw many angles of it.  It amazes me, how different folks see the same things and come to different conclusions.  

 

Personally, I'd err on the side of caution in this case.  I don't want a repeat of Buck coming back too early and becoming broken for good.

[Mr Dee]

The Bombers have been pretty strict in treating injuries of any kind in TC and pre-season. They have not allowed players to participate even if they were close to being ready. Need examples? Kohlert and Richards. There are others. I know Willy is "more valuable" but how can anyone say they would be willing to take such a chance for such a valuable chit?

[TBURGESS]

The Bombers have been pretty strict in treating injuries of any kind in TC and pre-season. They have not allowed players to participate even if they were close to being ready. Need examples? Kohlert and Richards. There are others. I know Willy is "more valuable" but how can anyone say they would be willing to take such a chance for such a valuable chit?

How do you know that Kohlert and Richards were close to being ready when the Bombers don't give any injury details?

[Mr Dee]

The Bombers have been pretty strict in treating injuries of any kind in TC and pre-season. They have not allowed players to participate even if they were close to being ready. Need examples? Kohlert and Richards. There are others. I know Willy is "more valuable" but how can anyone say they would be willing to take such a chance for such a valuable chit?

How do you know that Kohlert and Richards were close to being ready when the Bombers don't give any injury details?

That's what you got from that post?

Or is that another back-handed slap at Mike O'Shea?

[The Unknown Poster]

I agree with Doug Browns assessment... If you believe Willy wasn't knocked out, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Willy saying he wasn't out, is more than a little suspect.  Either he doesn't know that he was out or he's saying what he needs to say to get back in the game.  Dude wasn't on the field with his eyes closed taking a quick nap.

 

The Bombers didn't report it as a concussion.... they reported it as an 'Upper Body Injury'.  

 

The reporters and most folks on this site saw many angles of it.  It amazes me, how different folks see the same things and come to different conclusions.  

 

Personally, I'd err on the side of caution in this case.  I don't want a repeat of Buck coming back too early and becoming broken for good.

If Doug Brown said this, then Doug Brown is an idiot.

 

Willy was CLEARLY conscious immediately following the hit as he cringed and reached towards his face, rolled over onto his stomach and, to my recollection while very still was stirring.  I know Doug is an expert on everything, but Willy and the staff would know better.  I also thought he looked "hurt" but not glassy when he was walking off.  Anyone who has suffered a sudden, scary painful strike can probably attest to feeling an emotional exhaustion right after.  Thats how he looked to me walking off.  I actually said to myself 'he might be ok'.

 

This is all so much ado about nothing.  He was cleared.  period. 

[dmillerywg]

I agree with Doug Browns assessment... If you believe Willy wasn't knocked out, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Willy saying he wasn't out, is more than a little suspect.  Either he doesn't know that he was out or he's saying what he needs to say to get back in the game.  Dude wasn't on the field with his eyes closed taking a quick nap.

 

The Bombers didn't report it as a concussion.... they reported it as an 'Upper Body Injury'.  

 

The reporters and most folks on this site saw many angles of it.  It amazes me, how different folks see the same things and come to different conclusions.  

 

Personally, I'd err on the side of caution in this case.  I don't want a repeat of Buck coming back too early and becoming broken for good.

The Bombers may not have reported it as a Concussion however Willy said in his last interview that "I Remember everything" when asked if he was "Out"

And When asked if he wanted to go back in he said "I answered all my protocol questions... I felt fine" ( When he was in the Tunnel )

So Mike O'Shea can say it was upper body all he wants but Willy confirmed it was his head they don't ask you protocol questions if you have a broken arm...

[mbrg]

Addendum to new medical policy - players are no longer allowed to wince after being clobbered.

[TBURGESS]

The Bombers have been pretty strict in treating injuries of any kind in TC and pre-season. They have not allowed players to participate even if they were close to being ready. Need examples? Kohlert and Richards. There are others. I know Willy is "more valuable" but how can anyone say they would be willing to take such a chance for such a valuable chit?

How do you know that Kohlert and Richards were close to being ready when the Bombers don't give any injury details?

That's what you got from that post?

Or is that another back-handed slap at Mike O'Shea?

What I got from the post is you making statements that you can't possibly back up.

[Noeller]

 

 

 

The Bombers have been pretty strict in treating injuries of any kind in TC and pre-season. They have not allowed players to participate even if they were close to being ready. Need examples? Kohlert and Richards. There are others. I know Willy is "more valuable" but how can anyone say they would be willing to take such a chance for such a valuable chit?

How do you know that Kohlert and Richards were close to being ready when the Bombers don't give any injury details?

That's what you got from that post?

Or is that another back-handed slap at Mike O'Shea?

What I got from the post is you making statements that you can't possibly back up.

 

LOL at the nerve of you, of all people, saying that.....

[Mr Dee]

What I got from the post is you making statements that you can't possibly back up.

Yeah, I knew you targeted me, but on the other hand...neither can you prove it wrong.

But I ask you, why would they hold out 2 NI receivers if they were healthy?

[Tracker]

Having worked as an EMT for a few years, the default assumption is that if there is any doubt, the event is to be treated as a concussion until assessed by a doctor otherwise. No doubt that will be the Bomber's position as well, and with this huge lawsuit in progress, I cannot see Willy being allowed to practice, let alone play if there is any doubt.

 

He wouldn't even have been allowed out into the tunnel to stand there and watch the game if there had been any doubt.

I suspect that he shouldn't have watched the debacle that was last Thursday's game for fear of emotional trauma plus nausea.

[Mark F]

People getting cranky.

 

Need a Bomber win.