Confederate Flag

[wpgallday1960]

 

As a society we hopefully advance and learn to change things that need to be changed instead of clinging to potentially harmful "traditions".

 

Well, aren't we enlightened, so enlightened that you willingly jump on the Groupthink bandwagon whenever it's decided, somewhere, by someone, that something is offensive.  I would hope others aren't just as willing to unquestioningly abandon everything they have seen and heard and believed growing up because someone tells us it is suddenly "bad".  Always question authority, especially the authority of people telling you how you should think. Your comment about how we as a society need to learn to change things instead of clinging to traditions seems to be right out of Animal Farm.

 

I agree with TUP that I don't really care about the Confederate flag or what it means to Southerners.  I am from Winnipeg, so until someone starts telling me the Bison on our flag is some kind of racist symbol it really doesn't matter to me.  What I don't get is the hysterical over-reaction including banning shows like the Dukes of Hazzard from TV, because someone might see the Confederate flag on the General Lee for 4.5 seconds per show.  Who cares.  It's ridiculous.  That's just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

 

Dukes was a favorite show of an entire generation.  I still remember that show being the highlight of my TV week (and that just goes to show what dreck was on in that era).  The Dukes taught good morals, and right from wrong.  Boss Hogg was the greedy bad guy, and the Dukes always out-smarted him, and made sure justice was served, despite the corrupt and crooked cops they had to deal with.  We were taught greed was bad, and good always triumphs over evil.  It's not like Uncle Jesse and Roscoe sat around the kitchen table dropping N-bombs and telling racist jokes.  Far from it. 

 

Here's how I sum up political correctness: Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of fecal matter by the clean end.

 

for your information, I've long held the belief that the confederate flag is a racist symbol and over the years come to see the point of view over the Redskins name, despite my early resistance.  I would hardly call that "groupthink" and you can drop the snarky attitude.

I wouldn't call for a ban of "Dukes of Hazzard" as that would be going too far and it wasn't a racist show to my recollection.  Banning the flag from officially flying at the state capital is more of what I mean, not banning every reference.

My change comment was more directed at past practices that weren't thought of as racist at the time but in a new era where we consider peoples opinions who may have been the victim of these practices, they now may be considered inappropriate.  things like the "sixties scoop" or residential schools - the confederate flag should be looked on in a new light.

Quite frankly you don't have to be an ******* about it. 

[kelownabomberfan]

Quite frankly you don't have to be an ******* about it.

all right, but quite frankly you don't have to be a whiny child about my response either. Your comments mimicked a lot of idiots I see on other forums I post on, who constantly immediately jump on the "ban everything" bandwagon as soon as a few individuals deem something offensive, and the group-think and pressure and guilt being exerted are extreme. I see now you aren't one of those idiots, so I apologize.

One of the dumbest "1984" like events took place when a bunch of female celebrities wanted to ban the word "bossy". Just so stupid. And I don't think Mike Bossy liked it too much either. It wasn't received well, thankfully. What scared me about this campaign though was that people somehow think they can just start banning words in our society, because they decide that they are bad. That's not how a free society works, and it's an extremely slippery slope.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/03/problem-with-the-ban-bossy-campaign.html

[basslicker]

Love this post^^^^^

[The Unknown Poster]

Yeah except banning the word "bossy" is not the same as banning a racist flag.  Its also not even a discussion about banning the Battle Flag.  It's about removing a flag that wasnt even officially used by the confederate army from government buildings.  Why on earth would anyone feel a sense of pride over the confederates anyway?  Fighting to keep slavery?  Sounds like a great thing to take pride in.

 

I especially love seeing people from here online talking about their "culture".  yeah, you're from Selkirk, dont let the "man" take away your culture.  lol  Redneck losers.

[kelownabomberfan]

Yeah except banning the word "bossy" is not the same as banning a racist flag.  Its also not even a discussion about banning the Battle Flag.  It's about removing a flag that wasnt even officially used by the confederate army from government buildings.  Why on earth would anyone feel a sense of pride over the confederates anyway?  Fighting to keep slavery?  Sounds like a great thing to take pride in.

 

I especially love seeing people from here online talking about their "culture".  yeah, you're from Selkirk, dont let the "man" take away your culture.  lol  Redneck losers.

 

I totally agree with the arguments supporting banning the Confederate flag, but you see what a slippery slope you are on when it is deemed ok to just start banning anything and everything right?

 

I get why the Nazi flag is banned and people freak out if anyone wears a swastika in public, but I don't get why kids run around today with a hammer and sickle flag on their chest.  The USSR murdered millions of Ukrainians and Cossacks, and was a terrible repressive regime.  If we as a society are arbitrarily deciding to ban all flags that at one time stood for oppression, why stop at just the Confederate flag?  Ban all communist flags from the by-gone era as well.  And the same argument can be made in support of banning the USSR flag as you just made re Confederate flags - if you disagree, your opinion doesn't count, because you are from Selkirk, not Moscow, so no one cares that you are pissed off if your "cool" Che Guevara T shirt is banned.  Commie loser.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Yeah except banning the word "bossy" is not the same as banning a racist flag.  Its also not even a discussion about banning the Battle Flag.  It's about removing a flag that wasnt even officially used by the confederate army from government buildings.  Why on earth would anyone feel a sense of pride over the confederates anyway?  Fighting to keep slavery?  Sounds like a great thing to take pride in.

 

I especially love seeing people from here online talking about their "culture".  yeah, you're from Selkirk, dont let the "man" take away your culture.  lol  Redneck losers.

 

I totally agree with the arguments supporting banning the Confederate flag, but you see what a slippery slope you are on when it is deemed ok to just start banning anything and everything right?

 

I get why the Nazi flag is banned and people freak out if anyone wears a swastika in public, but I don't get why kids run around today with a hammer and sickle flag on their chest.  The USSR murdered millions of Ukrainians and Cossacks, and was a terrible repressive regime.  If we as a society are arbitrarily deciding to ban all flags that at one time stood for oppression, why stop at just the Confederate flag?  Ban all communist flags from the by-gone era as well.  And the same argument can be made in support of banning the USSR flag as you just made re Confederate flags - if you disagree, your opinion doesn't count, because you are from Selkirk, not Moscow, so no one cares that you are pissed off if your "cool" Che Guevara T shirt is banned.  Commie loser.

 

 

Well I have never seen anyone sporting a Soviet flag.  Perhaps I've just not observant.  But I think you're confusing a couple of things.

 

The Confederate Battle Flag isnt banned.  And I dont think most people are calling for it to be banned.  I think most people are simply asking for a little common sense to prevail.  The Battle Flag is racist.  It came to prominence as a symbol of the KKK.  It was never used in it's "current" form (or the KKK form) by the Confederate Army.  it appeared on the canton of the Confederate army flags (Stainless Banner & Bloodstained Banner).

 

Now let's pretend the KKK didnt adopt the battle flag as their own.  And everyone went on their way associating the flag with the confederates...and over the years that somehow went from being a symbol of the confederates to a symbol of "southern culture".  Is it still not a symbol undeserving of "pride" considering what the confederates were fighting over?

 

So when i see people saying this is an attack on southern culture, it makes me shake my head.  What culture do they speak of?  Owning slaves?  Going to war with their own country?

 

But that aside, take the case of the Swastika, a very old symbol.  It was a positive image in many cultures and religions.  But then the Nazi's came along and hijacked it and now the Western World considers it a symbol of hate and racism. 

 

But here's the thing... the Swastika is not banned.  And neither is the Battle Flag.  But I dare say that no government agency would raise a flag with the Swastika on it.  And neither should they raise the battle flag.  If someone wants to hang the flag in their home, in their car, draped on their body, that's their business.  They are perfectly within their right to do so.  And the rest of us enlightened folks are perfectly within our rights to consider those people to be ignorant hicks.

 

I think if most of these people (especially the Canadians) would understand if they bothered to do a little research but I sincerely doubt most of them have a clue about the history of the flag.

[johnzo]

Yeah, I know lots of left wingers and no one is talking about outright banning the stars n bars ... but they are saying that the flag represents some pretty heinous **** and that a government of the people ought not to fly a flag that celebrates slavery, Jim Crow, and hostility to the civil rights movement.

[Mark H.]

The confederate flag was also symbol of protest against desegregation.

 

 

[basslicker]

Yeah except banning the word "bossy" is not the same as banning a racist flag. Its also not even a discussion about banning the Battle Flag. It's about removing a flag that wasnt even officially used by the confederate army from government buildings. Why on earth would anyone feel a sense of pride over the confederates anyway? Fighting to keep slavery? Sounds like a great thing to take pride in.

I especially love seeing people from here online talking about their "culture". yeah, you're from Selkirk, dont let the "man" take away your culture. lol Redneck losers.

Your blanket 'redneck' comments are laughable. Typical really. Someone disagrees Wih you they're redneck losers.

You have some guts for an Internet tough guy.

and you need an education in the real issues from the civil war.

History is written by the winners.

[basslicker]

And I've seen those idiotic hipsters with the hammer and sickle shirts. I wanted to burn it off them. The Confederate flag at least isn't the symbol for a regime who murdered uncounted millions.

and those Che shirts are just as ignorant.

But I'm guessing since they're both lefty that the media doesn't jump on them and the bleeding hearts won't touch them as issues.

hypocrisy at its finest.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Yeah except banning the word "bossy" is not the same as banning a racist flag. Its also not even a discussion about banning the Battle Flag. It's about removing a flag that wasnt even officially used by the confederate army from government buildings. Why on earth would anyone feel a sense of pride over the confederates anyway? Fighting to keep slavery? Sounds like a great thing to take pride in.

I especially love seeing people from here online talking about their "culture". yeah, you're from Selkirk, dont let the "man" take away your culture. lol Redneck losers.

Your blanket 'redneck' comments are laughable. Typical really. Someone disagrees Wih you they're redneck losers.

You have some guts for an Internet tough guy.

and you need an education in the real issues from the civil war.

History is written by the winners.

 

 

What does "internet tough guy" mean?   Does it mean you disagree with me so you pretend like you'd want to fight over your beliefs if this wasnt a message board?  It *is* a message board so chill out.  You dont know me so you dont realise how silly it is to call me that.  I forgive you though.  ;-)

 

And no, a person is not a redneck loser for disagreeing with me.  They are a redneck loser for embracing a symbol of racism.  Or is this another belief you have, that when the KKK hold up the confederate flag that everyone just misunderstands them and they are really just nice guys with a "different opinion"?  I bet you're one of those people that I've seen re-tweeting the meme comparing the rainbow flag and the battle flag right?  Because the application of common sense doesnt make the difference really apparent.

 

Listen, you getting pissy aside, if you need to embrace a group of people who are at best misguided and at worse racists because you feel a kinship over your perceived persecution, that's your prerogative but it doesnt make the battle flag any less offensive.

 

As for the civil war, this isnt a civil war debate so unless you want to provide a history lesson and turn it into one, we're only talking about a specific aspect of the civil war which is the misappropriated "truth" that the battle flag somehow represents southern pride because of its use as the confederate flag which ofcourse is incorrect.  We can talk about the economic issues or states rights but I dont think that has much bearing on the current issue of the battle flag.  But have at 'er hoss.  I find the civil war very interesting but Im far from an expert.  Feel free to educate us.

[The Unknown Poster]

And I've seen those idiotic hipsters with the hammer and sickle shirts. I wanted to burn it off them. The Confederate flag at least isn't the symbol for a regime who murdered uncounted millions.

and those Che shirts are just as ignorant.

But I'm guessing since they're both lefty that the media doesn't jump on them and the bleeding hearts won't touch them as issues.

hypocrisy at its finest.

Im not sure what your point is.  The confederate flag is okay because other symbols are worse?  Do you think the issue with the battle flag is one of right vs left?  Because I dont think being racist or prejudiced against a people is a right vs left issue.

[basslicker]

And I've seen those idiotic hipsters with the hammer and sickle shirts. I wanted to burn it off them. The Confederate flag at least isn't the symbol for a regime who murdered uncounted millions.

and those Che shirts are just as ignorant.

But I'm guessing since they're both lefty that the media doesn't jump on them and the bleeding hearts won't touch them as issues.

hypocrisy at its finest.

Im not sure what your point is. The confederate flag is okay because other symbols are worse? Do you think the issue with the battle flag is one of right vs left? Because I dont think being racist or prejudiced against a people is a right vs left issue.

The left comes in for me when I see only certain issues being made 'issues'. Will it take a soviet sympathizer lunatic killing 12 people and waving the hammer/sickle for people to know it's not a symbol worry of promoting?

For me it's not about banning a symbol. It's about people just being smart enough to choose to not use it. Im not a fan of banning every thing. Maybe it's a pipe dream. Lol.

As for the civil war, no, it has little baring to the current argument other than pointing out it was about more than just freeing the slaves. The emancipation was used to destabilize the south when they were winning the war.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

And I've seen those idiotic hipsters with the hammer and sickle shirts. I wanted to burn it off them. The Confederate flag at least isn't the symbol for a regime who murdered uncounted millions.

and those Che shirts are just as ignorant.

But I'm guessing since they're both lefty that the media doesn't jump on them and the bleeding hearts won't touch them as issues.

hypocrisy at its finest.

Im not sure what your point is. The confederate flag is okay because other symbols are worse? Do you think the issue with the battle flag is one of right vs left? Because I dont think being racist or prejudiced against a people is a right vs left issue.

The left comes in for me when I see only certain issues being made 'issues'. Will it take a soviet sympathizer lunatic killing 12 people and waving the hammer/sickle for people to know it's not a symbol worry of promoting?

For me it's not about banning a symbol. It's about people just being smart enough to choose to not use it. Im not a fan of banning every thing. Maybe it's a pipe dream. Lol.

As for the civil war, no, it has little baring to the current argument other than pointing out it was about more than just freeing the slaves. The emancipation was used to destabilize the south when they were winning the war.

 

I dont disagree with you.  But the thing is, its not about "banning".  I'd err on the side of letting stupid people do stupid things moreso than over-banning or over-censoring.  I'm a "righty".  To me the discussion is two things: 1) no government building should be flying the battle flag for several reasons not least of which is it was *not* an official confederate flag, it was used as a racist symbol etc  2) the idiocy of embracing it as some sort of southern culture symbol in this day and age, especially by Canadians who fancy themselves deep southerners because they live in rural Manitoba and like riding a quad.  I call this the "point & laugh" scenario.

 

I dont think the flag should be "banned".  I do think anyone who flies it, wears it, supports it, embraces it is somewhere between uninformed and racist.  But they shouldnt be banned from being uninformed, ignorant or racist as long as it doesnt infringe upon anyone else.  So many of those people seem hellbent on convincing everyone else of the virtue of the battle flag though.

[Goalie]

Ahh History... love people who try to ban history, it's a big part of peoples lives... I don't really care if someone wants to fly the confederate flag or even the nazi flag for that matter, that's their choice, I'm not overly sensitive to these things.. I guess trying to ban flags is like trying to rewrite and change history, but you can't really do that. 

 

Honestly tho, i've been to the southern states and it's a lot different than anywhere i've ever been, you see crosses hanging in fields still in some places, it's kind of a strange scary ish place, some of those places, mississippi and south carolina in particular, pretty much makes you want to drive by as soon as you can.. however, if people want to fly flags or whatever really, so be it, who am i to tell them what they believe is wrong. I'm Canadian therefore this truly honestly doesn't really effect me at all. 

 

What's next tho? there will always be something, and honestly, flags should be the least of peoples concerns. Especially if it doesn't really matter to any of us. 

 

I guess, if i lived in the south, maybe it would be different... maybe i would care a little bit more, maybe i would have been raised to believe that the confederate flag is indeed a symbol and pride and all that... but really, to me... it's just a flag... it's really just a piece of cloth really. Don't see the need to get worked up over a piece of cloth. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Who on earth said anything about banning a flag?

 

People who think the battle flag is racist: "Dont ban the flag, but it is racist and should not fly on government property as a symbol of pride"

 

People who think the battle flag isnt racist: "Everyone wants to ban everything, whats next?  They will ban cookies and ice cream.  This is an out rage."

 

I mean really...

[johnzo]

Yeah, this isn't about banning. It's about how the government represents itself to the people it governs.

1/3 of South Carolina is black. Should South Carolina fly a KKK flag on its government buildings? That's what's at stake here.

Interesting CFL note: the Southsiders in Ottawa waved confederate battle flags back in the 90s (and probably before). I wonder if they still do that?

[Rich]

There is a high school in Alabama that has a "Rebel Man" mascot that is basically an old South plantation owner.

 

Here is an article and some pictures of the mascot.  There is a movement underway to replace / change the mascot.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-high-school-reconsiders-rebel-man-mascot-represents-civil-war-history/

 

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

There is a high school in Alabama that has a "Rebel Man" mascot that is basically an old South plantation owner.

 

Here is an article and some pictures of the mascot.  There is a movement underway to replace / change the mascot.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-high-school-reconsiders-rebel-man-mascot-represents-civil-war-history/

 

 

 

 

Isnt it crazy how it takes this long for people to see change is needed.  It's 2015!  I guess people just get used to it.

[Goalie]

In Canada there used to be something called "THE LORDS DAY" aka it was sunday and back then, no sports were allowed to be played on that day. Times change i suppose... banning or not banning, perhaps it's time for some change down there... but, my main thing is who the heck am i, a canadian at that to tell southern americans what they can and can not do.  Times change for sure but sometimes not all places or people change with it, some people don't like change, winnipegers should know that all too well with councillors trying their hardest to save decrepid old buildings around town that serve no purpose, heritage buildings i believe they are called... 

 

The south is a strange place, it's a little bit behind the times in some of those places. 

[Rich]

In Canada there used to be something called "THE LORDS DAY" aka it was sunday and back then, no sports were allowed to be played on that day. Times change i suppose... banning or not banning, perhaps it's time for some change down there... but, my main thing is who the heck am i, a canadian at that to tell southern americans what they can and can not do.  Times change for sure but sometimes not all places or people change with it, some people don't like change, winnipegers should know that all too well with councillors trying their hardest to save decrepid old buildings around town that serve no purpose, heritage buildings i believe they are called... 

 

The south is a strange place, it's a little bit behind the times in some of those places. 

 

None of us here are in a position to tell a lot of people what to do.  It doesn't preclude you from having an opinion on it or discussing it.  If we were only going to discuss things that we could actually affect, I might as well just shut this message board down.  Coaches don't really listen to our opinions on football.

 

I believe that we should look at these discussions and opinions we have on the deep south and do some self reflection on pre-conceived notions or things that we simply accept in our own society.

[Mark F]

Coaches don't really listen to our opinions on football.

 

 

 

What?

 

This can not be possible.

[Atomic]

Who on earth said anything about banning a flag?

People who think the battle flag is racist: "Dont ban the flag, but it is racist and should not fly on government property as a symbol of pride"

People who think the battle flag isnt racist: "Everyone wants to ban everything, whats next? They will ban cookies and ice cream. This is an out rage."

I mean really...

That's your opinion, but its not everyone's argument. Many people are calling for an outright ban of the Confederate flag. For example Amazon pulled all items displaying the Confederate flag. But you can still buy an Xbox controller branded with a swastika. Go figure!

[kelownabomberfan]

 

That's your opinion, but its not everyone's argument. Many people are calling for an outright ban of the Confederate flag. For example Amazon pulled all items displaying the Confederate flag. But you can still buy an Xbox controller branded with a swastika. Go figure!

 

 

Yeah exactly.  This is right out of 1984.  Just wiping something out of existence and pretending that it never existed.  What's next?  There's nothing that can't be justified as ban-able anymore. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Amazon has the right to do so though. It's private business. Let me know when it's a crime to wear a battle flag t shirt.