Bombers give Stamps a gift..

[17to85]

 

 

The Bombers always overlook experience so they don't have to pay because we're cheap.That's the way this team rolls & there doesn't seem to be the will to change the culture of how this team is run from the Board of Directors on down.

I'm not saying Walters wasn't the right hire but I seem to remember Wade Miller at the Walters presser that he didn't have to conduct any interviews for the vacant GM position because he got to know & like Walters by working everyday beside him. If that was true, I don't like that as the hiring process should have been allowed to take its rightful course & potential candidates should have been interviewed. There's so much nepotism in the Bomber organization & it seems ingrained in the culture of how the team is run. 

As far as MOS goes, he was a supposed young bright light in the coaching ranks. The Next One as far as some experts said. I remember Bluto really being high on him here when he was hired. My concern was that he never was responsible for or called a defense as a coordinator & maybe he needed more experience to become a successful DC before he was hired as a head coach. He was a STC but was that enough to get the hire as our HC here? But hey, Walters & MOS are buddies & have been for years so why am I not surprised this happened? Thing is, both Walters & MOS are in place, the team is for the most part competitive so we might as well as a fanbase get & stay behind both of them, hope they do well & see how it all plays out for the rest of the season. Not ready to tie the can to this regime just yet.  

I think this is missing the real point of why the Bombers don't hire experience.... it's a general managers and coaches grave yard. Experienced people don't want to come here because the track record in Winnipeg is a couple years and you're fired with your reputation in tatters. Justified or not that's what's happened for the last 15 years and it does impact whether guys want to come here and subject themselves to that. Walters and O'Shea might not be perfect but you have to give them a long enough period you can't just keep firing people all the time, that ensures you're not able to hire the best candidates. 

 

Yes, our record the past few years has been a problem so I acknowledge what you said Thing is, I know that Jim Barker applied for the GM job but the Bombers hired Mack & I believe that Tom Higgins was interested in the HC job as well at the end of the 2013 season after he left the CFL. I don't think it's been all inexperienced people applying for Bomber management & coaching positions.

 

You gotta get off the Higgins train man, he ain't done much of note in Montreal and the Als lost a game very similarly to how the Bombers lost to the Stamps. The problems here are deep rooted long term ones that aren't remedied easily. Barker and Higgins? Why waste time on them? 

[Floyd]

Noel Thorpe is the difference in Montreal... not Higgins.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

The Bombers always overlook experience so they don't have to pay because we're cheap.That's the way this team rolls & there doesn't seem to be the will to change the culture of how this team is run from the Board of Directors on down.

I'm not saying Walters wasn't the right hire but I seem to remember Wade Miller at the Walters presser that he didn't have to conduct any interviews for the vacant GM position because he got to know & like Walters by working everyday beside him. If that was true, I don't like that as the hiring process should have been allowed to take its rightful course & potential candidates should have been interviewed. There's so much nepotism in the Bomber organization & it seems ingrained in the culture of how the team is run. 

As far as MOS goes, he was a supposed young bright light in the coaching ranks. The Next One as far as some experts said. I remember Bluto really being high on him here when he was hired. My concern was that he never was responsible for or called a defense as a coordinator & maybe he needed more experience to become a successful DC before he was hired as a head coach. He was a STC but was that enough to get the hire as our HC here? But hey, Walters & MOS are buddies & have been for years so why am I not surprised this happened? Thing is, both Walters & MOS are in place, the team is for the most part competitive so we might as well as a fanbase get & stay behind both of them, hope they do well & see how it all plays out for the rest of the season. Not ready to tie the can to this regime just yet.  

I think this is missing the real point of why the Bombers don't hire experience.... it's a general managers and coaches grave yard. Experienced people don't want to come here because the track record in Winnipeg is a couple years and you're fired with your reputation in tatters. Justified or not that's what's happened for the last 15 years and it does impact whether guys want to come here and subject themselves to that. Walters and O'Shea might not be perfect but you have to give them a long enough period you can't just keep firing people all the time, that ensures you're not able to hire the best candidates. 

 

Yes, our record the past few years has been a problem so I acknowledge what you said Thing is, I know that Jim Barker applied for the GM job but the Bombers hired Mack & I believe that Tom Higgins was interested in the HC job as well at the end of the 2013 season after he left the CFL. I don't think it's been all inexperienced people applying for Bomber management & coaching positions.

 

You gotta get off the Higgins train man, he ain't done much of note in Montreal and the Als lost a game very similarly to how the Bombers lost to the Stamps. The problems here are deep rooted long term ones that aren't remedied easily. Barker and Higgins? Why waste time on them? 

 

I think all of us are spending too much time on the What Ifs here. We have Walters & O'Shea now. It's their second season. Let the season play out to see what happens.

[White Out]

I didnt mean to use the 3-13 as Cherry Picking to pile on to MOS I just meant to say that in the last 16 games we've lost a lot of football. Fatigue and shell shock sets in for fans.

[Ripper]

Noel Thorpe is the difference in Montreal... not Higgins.

Higgins would drive me nuts because I'm not as patient as he is, but the guy is good with young players. I think is a very under-rated coach. He doesn't panic under overwhelming pressure to do so. The guy won a grey cup with the Esks and broke out a pretty decent young qb, you might have heard of him, Ricky Ray. His players aren't afraid of knee jerk benching's for things like I don't know maybe a fumble. He has young Cato looking poised and confident in there, obviously that's not all on him the kid has talent. He has coached almost every position a guy can coach so he understands the game better than most. Also a head of officiating would have given him some real world insight into the inner workings of penalties etc.. Not jumping on your post or anything, just throwing a plug in there for Higgins, I think he is a very good coach IMHO.

[iso_55]

Higgins has always been smart enough to surround himself with good coaches on all of the staffs he had in Edmonton, Calgary & Montreal. Like a lot of good head coaches he lets his guys coach & doesn't micro manage them like I think Chamblin does in Saskatchewan. A lot of great assistants want to work for Higgins so I think that tells you something about him as a person. I've never heard him throw any of his coaches under the bus. The Rick Worman situation in Montreal may be the only one of his career where there was some kind of a problem & that may have been more Jim Popp forcing him to let Rick go than Higgins wanting to let him go. I never got the impression that decision was Tom Higgins.

[Ripper]

Higgins has always been smart enough to surround himself with good coaches on all of the staffs he had in Edmonton, Calgary & Montreal. Like a lot of good head coaches he lets his guys coach & doesn't micro manage them like I think Chamblin does in Saskatchewan. A lot of great assistants want to work for Higgins so I think that tells you something about him as a person. I've never heard him throw any of his coaches under the bus. The Rick Worman situation in Montreal may be the only one of his career where there was some kind of a problem & that may have been more Jim Popp forcing him to let Rick go than Higgins wanting to let him go. I never got the impression that decision was Tom Higgins.

Couldn't agree more. Great coaches make other people better and allow them to be great also without taking credit for their successes or throwing them under the bus when they fail. He doesn't toot his own horn, or jump around like a jackass, but simply is totally professional and courteous in everything he does. As far as the thread goes, I'd stay the course with O'Shea at least for a bit yet. He was a rookie HC when you hired him IMO that means you got to give him 3 years to see what you got

[Tracker]

Hindsight is always perfect, and in retrospect, the experience of Higgins would probably have been a valuable asset for a team reeling from mismanagement and miscoachingment. We can give O'Shea a Mulligan for last year but not so this year. I don't see turfing O'Shea mid-season but unless the team gets past these preventable mistakes we saw too much last year and again against Calgary, he's in trouble. Even if O'Shea doesn't survive into next year, Walters probably has one more year of grace. As a sidenote: Walters was a special teams coach and these special teams screwups has to grind him.

[TBURGESS]

I'm not as patient as a lot of folks around here apparently.  If O'Shea doesn't produce a playoff team this year, I wouldn't give him another year.  I'm more patient than anyone who wants to can O'Shea during the year.  Never works out well as the best coaches all have jobs during the season.

[TrueBlue4ever]

Right now the Bombers are on pace for 9-9 this year….and missing the playoffs. You'd axe O'Shea in that scenario? 

[iso_55]

I'm not as patient as a lot of folks around here apparently.  If O'Shea doesn't produce a playoff team this year, I wouldn't give him another year.  I'm more patient than anyone who wants to can O'Shea during the year.  Never works out well as the best coaches all have jobs during the season.

Look what happened when Tim Burke took over mid season from LaPo. It was even worse. 

[iso_55]

Right now the Bombers are on pace for 9-9 this year….and missing the playoffs. You'd axe O'Shea in that scenario? 

4-14 yes. 9-9 no. 

[TBURGESS]

Right now the Bombers are on pace for 9-9 this year….and missing the playoffs. You'd axe O'Shea in that scenario? 

Has a 9-9 team ever missed the playoffs? If we go 9-9 I expect we'd make the playoffs, but no playoffs = no O'Shea to me.

[iso_55]

I think we have to look at progress. If it's evident that the Bombers are improving at 9-9 but didn't make the playoffs I'd still keep MOS. If it looks like the team is actually stagnating or regressing then a decision has to be made to keep or fire him. Let's put it another way, if we have the same kind of losing streak in the second half of the season as we did  in 2014, MOS will be fired. What it comes down to is (again) waiting for the season to end to see how we did & go from there.

[AtlanticRiderFan]

 

Right now the Bombers are on pace for 9-9 this year….and missing the playoffs. You'd axe O'Shea in that scenario? 

Has a 9-9 team ever missed the playoffs? If we go 9-9 I expect we'd make the playoffs, but no playoffs = no O'Shea to me.

 

 

Usually not, but given BC only made the crossover by one game last year at 9-9, it's not a give me by any stretch.

[bb1]

If we don't finish 9-9 and MOS is still making in game mistakes or holding on to underperforming players I don't see how we can keep him for next year.To me if you are gonna be a good hc your second year is the big test because there is no more rookie excuses to lean on.

[Tracker]

As per previous years, by Labour Day, we will know where we stand with the post-season and probably O'Shea's fate as well. Marc Trestman, anyone? Our last ex-Alouette coach didn't work out very well but TSN seems to like him.

[LeBird]

We get lucky and win a game that is gifted and we're cool with it even if we did not even score an offensive TD

We get unlucky and lose a game basically in the same way but now we forget we are in a new year with lots of guys new to this team, a new DC and the rfact we took them to the wire. What would have been the difference if we had lost to Montreal and won Saturday night? Moral victory? Still just two points and still 2-2. 

[SPuDS]

I didnt mean to use the 3-13 as Cherry Picking to pile on to MOS I just meant to say that in the last 16 games we've lost a lot of football. Fatigue and shell shock sets in for fans.

and were 2-1 just a week ago.. numbers rool!

[17to85]

 

 

Right now the Bombers are on pace for 9-9 this year….and missing the playoffs. You'd axe O'Shea in that scenario? 

Has a 9-9 team ever missed the playoffs? If we go 9-9 I expect we'd make the playoffs, but no playoffs = no O'Shea to me.

 

 

Usually not, but given BC only made the crossover by one game last year at 9-9, it's not a give me by any stretch.

 

9 wins will always get you into the playoffs in the CFL. Hell most times 8 is enough, last year being a bit of an oddball in that it wasn't enough. Just the simple numbers. Some teams always have to lose games and some teams will always win more than half of their games. Only way I don't see a .500 record making the playoffs in the CFL is if parity is such that the top teams only pick up like 10 wins and everyone is sitting there with .500 records. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

Right now the Bombers are on pace for 9-9 this year….and missing the playoffs. You'd axe O'Shea in that scenario?

Has a 9-9 team ever missed the playoffs? If we go 9-9 I expect we'd make the playoffs, but no playoffs = no O'Shea to me.

 

Usually not, but given BC only made the crossover by one game last year at 9-9, it's not a give me by any stretch.

9 wins will always get you into the playoffs in the CFL. Hell most times 8 is enough, last year being a bit of an oddball in that it wasn't enough. Just the simple numbers. Some teams always have to lose games and some teams will always win more than half of their games. Only way I don't see a .500 record making the playoffs in the CFL is if parity is such that the top teams only pick up like 10 wins and everyone is sitting there with .500 records.

With the crossover rules, 9 wins has always been enough, but before that was in place 11 teams missed the playoffs with .500 or better records. My point was simply that the Bombers were on track to hit 9-9 and were out of a playoff spot (yes, it's very early) so is missing the playoffs really the automatic "fire O'Shea" choice, regardless of how the team does? I wouldn't be so black and white about it. Remember what happened when we knee-jerk fired Doug Berry in an off-year after a Grey Cup run, or when we repeated the mistake with LaPolice in the same scenario. Coaches all have a shelf life, but 2 years isn't it IMO, especially after the brutality of the Joe Mack regime. This team was scorched earth and needs to be completely re-built; like it or not we need some more patience, having gone from 3-15 to 7-11 and now a .500 record.

[TBURGESS]

 

With the crossover rules, 9 wins has always been enough, but before that was in place 11 teams missed the playoffs with .500 or better records. My point was simply that the Bombers were on track to hit 9-9 and were out of a playoff spot (yes, it's very early) so is missing the playoffs really the automatic "fire O'Shea" choice, regardless of how the team does? I wouldn't be so black and white about it. Remember what happened when we knee-jerk fired Doug Berry in an off-year after a Grey Cup run, or when we repeated the mistake with LaPolice in the same scenario. Coaches all have a shelf life, but 2 years isn't it IMO, especially after the brutality of the Joe Mack regime. This team was scorched earth and needs to be completely re-built; like it or not we need some more patience, having gone from 3-15 to 7-11 and now a .500 record.

I didn't agree with firing Doug  Berry (Made the playoffs every year). I didn't agree with firing PLAP when we did (Should have kept him until the offseason to see if he could turn it around).  

 

If we went 2-7 in the first half of the season then 6-3 in the second half, then sure, keep O'Shea as he'd be trending in the right direction and we'd hopefully make the playoffs as a cross over anyway.  If we can't win 8 or more games, then O'Shea would be trending downward in his second year and wouldn't have the rookie HC excuse.  Who's available in the offseason as a HC also comes into the discussion.  Not sure I'd replace O'Shea with another rookie HC if he wins 7 or more.

[WBBFanWest]

If we make the playoffs, O'Shea is safe and should be.  If we miss the playoffs, then a lot will depend on why.  What I don't want to see is the coaching roulette we're suffered through over that past decade or so.  My only issue with O'Shea at this point is what I see as unyielding loyalty to specific players and the odd (sometimes very odd) coach.  That can be corrected.  Yes, he made a dumb mistake last game, but after listening to him post game, I'm reasonably sure that it's not going to happen again any time soon.

 

The way I look at it is that I assume that being a head coach in the CFL is a challenging enough job that one year is not enough to say "ok, no more rookie mistakes".  Unless things completely melt down over the remainder of the season, I would hope we would stay the course for at least one more year.

[Goalie]

I think reality might  be, if we keep firing coaches every 2 seasons or so, nobody and i mean NOBODY is going to want to come here. This is part of the problem actually, we are a coaches graveyard, This is why experienced coaches don't want to come here, why would they really. Plus the media here is a problem too, not sure who it was? was it millanovich who turned down a job offer or possibly even a job interview with the bombers cuz he didn't want to deal with our media? 

 

I don't get how people think firing coaches is the solution when it's actually part of the problem, a really big part of the problem here. You'd have to replace OSHEA with a rookie cuz no veteran coach is 1. available. seriously name 2. and 2. because only rookies would accept a job knowing they would be done in 2 years. 

[17to85]

The reason we had Etch last year as d-coordinator is because Stubler said **** no to coming to a coaching graveyard and went to Calgary instead where things are so stable there's never any need to fire coaches. 

 

People don't like to hear it, but we have to be patient with this group because this team needs stability more than anything.