kelownabomberfan Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 We won last year...killed the demon, as far as I'm concerned. Same as winning in Regina...it counts. Now, to Commonwealth...... you are being way too positive.
rebusrankin Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 Let's win in Edmonton. Not only would it end the streak, you'd get to see highlights of the Milt Miracle. Noeller 1
Noeller Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 We won last year...killed the demon, as far as I'm concerned. Same as winning in Regina...it counts. Now, to Commonwealth...... you are being way too positive. I want to say "there's no such thing.." but..........Spuds......... SPuDS 1
kelownabomberfan Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 We won last year...killed the demon, as far as I'm concerned. Same as winning in Regina...it counts. Now, to Commonwealth...... you are being way too positive. I want to say "there's no such thing.." but..........Spuds......... Yeah Spuds takes it to an all new level. About half-way to Rider-ville. Spuds is the Moosomin of Bomber fans. Noeller, SPuDS and rebusrankin 3
WestBattleJones Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 Well I'm about to be 40 next week (going to Vegas!) so I grew up with the success of the 80's and early 90's and it did spoil me to a certain degree. It went down hill quick after Reinbold took over and honestly, that was probably the worst time I ever remember over the past 30 years. This 2-2 start, while still a work in progress, has lots to be hopeful about As for thoughts on long term, my concern is for the team in that people under the age of 25-30 know nothing but the Grey Cup drought and also being the worst team a lot of those years. This is more of an opinion but I notice when I talk to the majority of people in that age group they don't have the same passion for the Bombers (not you Mike) and I wonder if that's part of it... they don't have the good memories to fall back on. Most of under 30's at a game are there for the Rum Hut it seems I don't blame them for not winning a Grey Cup in 23 years, as was said it's a lot of reasons (some their own fault, others bad luck). I just think it does have a cumulative effect to a certain degree and it's tough to shake that loser stigma. If someone has always grown up with them losing, can they ever get that passion ingrained in them or will they always see them a certain negative way? That being said, I know if we win one soon they'll all jump on the bandwagon and claim they were always there (see 6 hours west of us)
kelownabomberfan Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 Well I'm about to be 40 next week (going to Vegas!) so I grew up with the success of the 80's and early 90's and it did spoil me to a certain degree. It went down hill quick after Reinbold took over and honestly, that was probably the worst time I ever remember over the past 30 years. This 2-2 start, while still a work in progress, has lots to be hopeful about As for thoughts on long term, my concern is for the team in that people under the age of 25-30 know nothing but the Grey Cup drought and also being the worst team a lot of those years. This is more of an opinion but I notice when I talk to the majority of people in that age group they don't have the same passion for the Bombers (not you Mike) and I wonder if that's part of it... they don't have the good memories to fall back on. Most of under 30's at a game are there for the Rum Hut it seems I don't blame them for not winning a Grey Cup in 23 years, as was said it's a lot of reasons (some their own fault, others bad luck). I just think it does have a cumulative effect to a certain degree and it's tough to shake that loser stigma. If someone has always grown up with them losing, can they ever get that passion ingrained in them or will they always see them a certain negative way? That being said, I know if we win one soon they'll all jump on the bandwagon and claim they were always there (see 6 hours west of us) I hear what you are saying. I was rewarded early on in my Bomber experience by the 1984 Grey Cup win, but before that, going back to the late 70's, the Bombers were always competitive and good, and it was only because of those bleepin' Eskimos that the Grey Cup win didn't come sooner for me. The fans going to those games in the 1980's were still fans that remembered the Kenny Ploen Bud Grant dynasty days, like my dad, so there was still a lot of passion. That passion has definitely waned, and it's due to the fact that Bombers have been so bad for so long. There are no memories for the younger crowd of days of yore when the Bombers would go out and just beat the snot out of other teams. TBURGESS 1
Rich Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 The return of the Jets has definitely affected interest in the Bombers as well. With the Jets being away for so long, the interest and fandom that it attracted was huge. I’m sure Bomber merchandise sales have taken a hit since the Jets came back. For a long time the Bombers were the only real “big” game in town (who really likes the Goldeyes?). No matter how bad the team got there wasn't much else to follow. Now there is major competition in the Winnipeg sports scene and the Bombers really need to up their game. If the Bombers aren't playing well come Labour Day, interest will shift to NHL training camps and all the promises and hope of a sports season about to start.
TrueBlue4ever Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 I get the sense that it works the other way too in terms of expectations. I can see how fans who have never seen a winner get down on the team more easily than they might if we had had that breakthrough. But on the other side of it, because many fans have never seen the top of the mountain, moral victories after a loss like in Calgary suffice, and the "positive" fans will rip the "negative" ones (I hate these labels, BTW, but will use them for argument's sake) for being all doom and gloom. Objectivity has been lost on both sides. I am on the far side of 45, and started following the team around the 50th anniversary season. Became a "true" fan (understood the game, knew the players, could rattle off the stats, etc.) right around the 1984 season. Pretty damn fine time to become a fan, let me tell you. That team is still the best all-around team I have ever seen, hands down. Fans who witnessed the mirage of 2001 may see that as the high water mark, but they had nothing on the dominance of that '84 team. Not only would they not lose at home, they would simply crush every team that came into Winnipeg. Every loss on the road was a disappointment, because this team expected to win all the time, and so did its fans. A loss would have received the same criticism as it would today, but the debate would not spiral into the "sky is falling" hystrionics that some "negatrons" do throw out there (because they've seen the same movie so many times before) or that some "positrons" falsely accused the critics of throwing out there (I'd argue there are a greater number of false complaints from the positive side about how defeatist the comments from the critics are, rather than the actual number of defeatist comments themselves, and then the fight is on again, but to be fair it is easier to be negative with all the failures of the past 25 years, so I get that can grate on those who want to believe in this team). I am not happy about the loss and don't wish to find positives in it. Does this make me a negatron who thinks we need to blow up the team yet again? Absolutely not. I like the direction we are going in, and know that losses happen, so no need to get too low after one and paint the whole season or regime with a bad brush. In the same breath, no need to say all is well after a win. Just like we gave this game away with dumb mistakes and can feel positive with outplaying Calgary, so too could you argue Montreal did the same to us last week but for the punt block and pick-6 INT. But I will pick apart the mistakes made and not just accept it as growing pains, and say we are moving forwards in spite of it. A loss is not a step forward. If you truly believe that, then your expectations are way too low, and the club will have no motivation to get better since they feel no pressure to respond to a fan base that has minimal expectations. Bottom line, I have seen a truly great team in the Cal Murphy era that never accepted losing well, did not look for "moral victories", and would call out mistakes on stuff like running punts backwards, time count violations, 107 yard drives where our line was dominated, and brutal turnovers at the worst time without trying to gloss them over. That's what I grew up on and that's how I view the loss. No excuses. That's not "sky is falling" mentality, it's "play like a champion and expect to be a champion" which was the spirit of this team in the 80's and early 90's. It was a different world, both in sports and in life. Coaches were the ones in charge, not the players. Bad play would get you benched, size of your paycheck be damned. Graduation was reserved for grade 12, not every year. You got ribbons and medals for winning, not just for participating. Mediocrity was not cause for a celebration. As for what can be done about this for the old-timers, my solution for myself in the short term is to avoid posting for 24 hours after a game, win or loss, since the boards are ruled by emotion and not common sense, objectivity is out the window, and too many are too concerned with attacking those with an opposite viewpoint rather than actually debating the merits of the point being made. Long term, realize that next week is another game, so this one can be forgotten soon enough. Noeller, Mr Dee, BomberFan and 3 others 6
do or die Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 I post during the first few hours, after yet another tough loss.....but then I am made of sterner stuff......damn O+S burdens me with obligation..... Mark F 1
TrueBlue4ever Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 I'll wait for the Cole's notes version. - a counterpoint to the "the Grey Cup drought has made people too negative and impatient, especially those who never saw a Grey Cup win" theory - this theory suggests that not experiencing a winner has in fact made those searching for positives too desperate too accept anything as positive - the lengthy drought has made people too hypersensitive on both sides - excessive negativity is a problem on the boards, but the worse problem are those who are willing to accept mediocrity and chafe at any criticisms, over-exaggerating it into a false label of "sky is falling" syndrome, all in the sake of finding positives - all of the losing in the last 25 years has led to more negative posts overall in sheer numbers, which is attributed incorrectly as rampant "negation"posting - attacking those with different viewpoints becomes more important than debating and analyzing the actual problems with the team - the team's long-standing mediocrity has lowered expectations for some, where "moral victories" have replaced actual victories as acceptable -finding positives in losses is the new normal, vs. the 1980's where every loss was open to criticism but not subject to overreaction -this mirrors current society, where "participation"medals have replaced actual achievement so we can feel good about ourselves and settle for celebrating mediocrity rather than striving for true excellence -this is also analogous to reading a Cole's notes version as a substitute for reading a full post, seeing it as just as complete and relevant when all it really is is laziness - the short-term solution is to avoid posting for 24 hours after a game when emotion trumps logic -the long term solution is to realize that you will have another game to replace the angst over the past one Floyd and Fatty Liver 2
gbill2004 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 The Coles Notes version is longer than the initial post. ALuCsRED, SPuDS, Floyd and 2 others 5
TrueBlue4ever Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 The Coles Notes version is longer than the initial post. If I could dumb it down any further for you I would have.
White Out Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Posted July 20, 2015 True Blue your post is probably the best I've seen here yet Kudos
iso_55 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 I've been a Bomber fan since 1965 & I can tell you that even though I've seen a number of Grey Cup victories in my lifetime, going through this drought is no more easier for me or someone else who is a passionate fan yet never experienced the thrill of the Bombers winning a championship. I'm just as frustrated as everybody else & I suspect other older fans are as well.
kelownabomberfan Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 I've been a Bomber fan since 1965 & I can tell you that even though I've seen a number of Grey Cup victories in my lifetime, going through this drought is no more easier for me or someone else who is a passionate fan yet never experienced the thrill of the Bombers winning a championship. I'm just as frustrated as everybody else & I suspect other older fans are as well. Here's something to put the drought into perspective - I was watching the 1990 Grey Cup game the other day, and Rod Connop was playing on the Edmonton offensive line in that game. In the first game of the season this year, the Bombers faced Rory Connop, Rod's son, who is a rookie on the Rider defensive line. Rory was born on December 27, 1990. Since the last time the Bombers won a Grey Cup, Rod Connop had a son, that son grew up, and is now playing in the CFL. It just boggles the mind. Atomic and iso_55 2
do or die Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Can remember spilling gin, all over my shirt, on multiple occasions....when the Bombers finally won the cup.....in 84. Then we had 88...and 90... Who knew....that all the gin in the world would not quench the raging thirst, since then.
Floyd Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Its funny, I remember the mid-1990s as being crappy bomber teams, now I realize that 9-9 or 7-11 would be considered a success now. Lyle Bauer's legacy is destroying the bombers not once but twice... still trying to shake the stink off, years later.
iso_55 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Lyle left along time ago. Kelly left a long time ago. Can't keep pointing fingers at those 2 saying they're the reason we are still losing.Plenty of horrid decisions have been made since to keep this team down. TBURGESS 1
Floyd Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Lyle left along time ago. Kelly left a long time ago. Can't keep pointing fingers at those 2 saying they're the reason we are still losing.Plenty of horrid decisions have been made since to keep this team down. I agree but its Reinbold and then Kelly that really were legacy killers. Inexperienced coaches (buddies) and gamble on a new QB talent... Difference is that we fixed Reinbold's mess by hiring Dave Ritchie, an experienced head coach... that worked. After Ritchie, its been a string of Asst Coaches who are given a year or two to succeed then replaced with another Asst Coach We need to give OShea a chance but it might mean waiting another two or three years. It is what it is. SPuDS 1
iso_55 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Lyle left along time ago. Kelly left a long time ago. Can't keep pointing fingers at those 2 saying they're the reason we are still losing.Plenty of horrid decisions have been made since to keep this team down. I agree but its Reinbold and then Kelly that really were legacy killers. Inexperienced coaches (buddies) and gamble on a new QB talent... Difference is that we fixed Reinbold's mess by hiring Dave Ritchie, an experienced head coach... that worked. After Ritchie, its been a string of Asst Coaches who are given a year or two to succeed then replaced with another Asst Coach We need to give OShea a chance but it might mean waiting another two or three years. It is what it is. It surely is what it is.
iso_55 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Calgary had Buono & won 3 Grey Cups was fired & replaced by a rookie Matt Dunigan with zip for coaching experience & it was a disaster. Then Tom Higgins who won a CFL championship in Edmonton as a head coach replaced Matty. Higgins made the Stamps an instant contender. Then he was followed by Hufnagel who has won 2 Grey Cups as Stamps HC. You tell me the way to go??? But the Bombers never see it that way.
SPuDS Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 The upper echelon of management and leadership did more to set this franchise back then any coach or gm.. We were tightwads and old boys club for so long it chased potential FAs and coaches/GMs for a very long time..
Jpan85 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Over the past 15 years most of the coaches that have won Cups have had no CFL head coaching experience before taking the job. SPuDS 1
Floyd Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Lyle left along time ago. Kelly left a long time ago. Can't keep pointing fingers at those 2 saying they're the reason we are still losing.Plenty of horrid decisions have been made since to keep this team down. I agree but its Reinbold and then Kelly that really were legacy killers. Inexperienced coaches (buddies) and gamble on a new QB talent... Difference is that we fixed Reinbold's mess by hiring Dave Ritchie, an experienced head coach... that worked. After Ritchie, its been a string of Asst Coaches who are given a year or two to succeed then replaced with another Asst Coach We need to give OShea a chance but it might mean waiting another two or three years. It is what it is. It surely is what it is. bearpants 1
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