Fire O'Shea

[WBBFanWest]

 

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

 

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions.  I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.  

[HardCoreBlue]

I love all you "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" who sit here and say what O'Shea should have done within the context of the game that's going a hundred miles an hour.    

 

It's easy to sit back today and criticize his decisions.  We're all HOF coach's after you've re-watched the game in slow motion.  

I already qualified that with one of my posts above so thanks for the judgement. And your point about things going hundred miles per hour provides more evidence that if things were going to fast for our head coach (i.e., Calgary running up to the ball after the catch, no word from the spotter, no replay available, no word yea or nay from a player) you need to slow the game down at that point. How? With a challenge flag. Moreover, the logic I'm hearing here from some people is if you have no word from your sources (see my info in parenthesis above) and the opposition is wanting to hurry up to get the next play off, you simply let it happen because your info hasn't come in yet from a play you don't know yet if it was legit. It was at a crucial point in the game, I don't have my info to make a decision, I throw the challenge flag with the risk of losing a timeout.

[Goalie]

I'm not convinced they would have overturned the catch anyway. It's not like the replay booth gets it right all the time.

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

 

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions.  I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.  

 

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

[WBBFanWest]

 

I love all you "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" who sit here and say what O'Shea should have done within the context of the game that's going a hundred miles an hour.    

 

It's easy to sit back today and criticize his decisions.  We're all HOF coach's after you've re-watched the game in slow motion.  

I already qualified that with one of my posts above so thanks for the judgement. And your point about things going hundred miles per hour provides more evidence that if things were going to fast for our head coach (i.e., Calgary running up to the ball after the catch, no word from the spotter, no replay available, no word yea or nay from a player) you need to slow the game down at that point. How? With a challenge flag. Moreover, the logic I'm hearing here from some people is if you have no word from your sources (see my info in parenthesis above) and the opposition is wanting to hurry up to get the next play off, you simply let it happen because your info hasn't come in yet from a play you don't know yet if it was legit. It was at a crucial point in the game, I don't have my info to make a decision, I throw the challenge flag with the risk of losing a timeout.

 

And this is why you'll never be a professional head coach.  Seriously, you can find fault with O'Shea for a lot of things, but not throwing the challenge flag because he "thought that they were hurrying up when they shouldn't"  is beyond silly.  I guess you've never heard of a team speeding up to take advantage of momentum, because they thing that they've got the opposition on their heels?  I have.

[The Unknown Poster]

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions. I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

Doesn't the team have multiple people watching? I find it hard to believe no one saw even the possibility of a non catch? I think everyone was mystified by the circus catch. It was very obvious on reply. Id expect someone somewhere to raise an eyebrow at game speed since it's their bread and butter

[B-F-F-C]

 

 

 

 

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions. I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

Doesn't the team have multiple people watching? I find it hard to believe no one saw even the possibility of a non catch? I think everyone was mystified by the circus catch. It was very obvious on reply. Id expect someone somewhere to raise an eyebrow at game speed since it's their bread and butter

 

 

Have you not read the entirety of the thread?  And in real speed it looked like a good catch.  It wasn't until after the Stamps ran their next play that TSN showed a definitive replay that looked like the ball hit the ground.

 

And those two idiots (Black & Suitor) were still sporting chubbies over the non catch.

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

I love all you "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" who sit here and say what O'Shea should have done within the context of the game that's going a hundred miles an hour.    

 

It's easy to sit back today and criticize his decisions.  We're all HOF coach's after you've re-watched the game in slow motion.  

I already qualified that with one of my posts above so thanks for the judgement. And your point about things going hundred miles per hour provides more evidence that if things were going to fast for our head coach (i.e., Calgary running up to the ball after the catch, no word from the spotter, no replay available, no word yea or nay from a player) you need to slow the game down at that point. How? With a challenge flag. Moreover, the logic I'm hearing here from some people is if you have no word from your sources (see my info in parenthesis above) and the opposition is wanting to hurry up to get the next play off, you simply let it happen because your info hasn't come in yet from a play you don't know yet if it was legit. It was at a crucial point in the game, I don't have my info to make a decision, I throw the challenge flag with the risk of losing a timeout.

 

And this is why you'll never be a professional head coach.  Seriously, you can find fault with O'Shea for a lot of things, but not throwing the challenge flag because he "thought that they were hurrying up when they shouldn't"  is beyond silly.  I guess you've never heard of a team speeding up to take advantage of momentum, because they thing that they've got the opposition on their heels?  I have.

 

Wow, thanks for the judgement, appreciate the feedback.  Don't have to be a professional head coach to make assumptions. The assumption you just made was taking advantage of momentum (and having no other evidence at your disposal) that influences the decision in not throwing a challenge flag. Another assumption, equally valid, is Calgary, who should be trying to burn the clock but hurrying to the ball probably  not wanting this play reviewed that can help me make a decision and at the very least slows their momentum which just addressed the assumption you made. Win win.

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

 

 

 

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions. I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

Doesn't the team have multiple people watching? I find it hard to believe no one saw even the possibility of a non catch? I think everyone was mystified by the circus catch. It was very obvious on reply. Id expect someone somewhere to raise an eyebrow at game speed since it's their bread and butter

 

 

Have you not read the entirety of the thread?  And in real speed it looked like a good catch.  It wasn't until after the Stamps ran their next play that TSN showed a definitive replay that looked like the ball hit the ground.

 

And those two idiots (Black & Suitor) were still sporting chubbies over the non catch.

 

One of the best reasons I can think of for NOT watching the game in high def.

[Mr Dee]

Thinking that you throw a challenge flag, on a whim, because it was a long catch and the opposition seemed to rushing is just plain foolish. Loss of a timeout , in a close game, is a waste, especially with the record of reviews the challenge centre has made.

Then, you'd be on the other side of the argument saying...what a dumb fruck that O'Shea was for blowing a time-out without adequate reason.

[pigseye]

I love all you "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" who sit here and say what O'Shea should have done within the context of the game that's going a hundred miles an hour.    

 

It's easy to sit back today and criticize his decisions.  We're all HOF coach's after you've re-watched the game in slow motion.  

 

Nobody said their job was easy but wtf do you think he's getting paid for?

[The Unknown Poster]

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions. I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

Doesn't the team have multiple people watching? I find it hard to believe no one saw even the possibility of a non catch? I think everyone was mystified by the circus catch. It was very obvious on reply. Id expect someone somewhere to raise an eyebrow at game speed since it's their bread and butter

Have you not read the entirety of the thread? And in real speed it looked like a good catch. It wasn't until after the Stamps ran their next play that TSN showed a definitive replay that looked like the ball hit the ground.

And those two idiots (Black & Suitor) were still sporting chubbies over the non catch.

I believe the replay was shown before he next play. I saw it as a non catch and assumed the flag was coming and the next play then began

[B-F-F-C]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions. I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

Doesn't the team have multiple people watching? I find it hard to believe no one saw even the possibility of a non catch? I think everyone was mystified by the circus catch. It was very obvious on reply. Id expect someone somewhere to raise an eyebrow at game speed since it's their bread and butter

Have you not read the entirety of the thread? And in real speed it looked like a good catch. It wasn't until after the Stamps ran their next play that TSN showed a definitive replay that looked like the ball hit the ground.

And those two idiots (Black & Suitor) were still sporting chubbies over the non catch.

I believe the replay was shown before he next play. I saw it as a non catch and assumed the flag was coming and the next play then began

 

 

 

Go re watch the game  and you'll see that there was very little time before the ball was snapped.  The best and most definitive replay was shown after the Stamps ran their next play.   

[The Unknown Poster]

That's possible. I'm going by memory. I just recall thinking oh they will throw the flag....and then **** why didn't they throw the flag

[Guest J5V]

That's possible. I'm going by memory. I just recall thinking oh they will throw the flag....and then **** why didn't they throw the flag

Yep, just like all the other times O'Shea should have thrown the flag or called a time-out and didn't. The guy sleep-walks through these games having no clue what to do then stands before the media and blames the officials. You think the players don't notice this also? I just can't stomach any more of O'Shea and his mindless stares and stupid smirks. I wouldn't even mind all the losing so much if I didn't have to endure that loser.

[HardCoreBlue]

 

That's possible. I'm going by memory. I just recall thinking oh they will throw the flag....and then **** why didn't they throw the flag

Yep, just like all the other times O'Shea should have thrown the flag or called a time-out and didn't. The guy sleep-walks through these games having no clue what to do then stands before the media and blames the officials. You think the players don't notice this also? I just can't stomach any more of O'Shea and his mindless stares and stupid smirks. I wouldn't even mind all the losing so much if I didn't have to endure that loser.

 

Really, you're judging him on that? His facial expressions.

I'm giving him some flak on not throwing the challenge flag, but I would never assess him, cast my opinion on his ability as a CFL coach because of his facial or body mannerisms. The word silly and foolish has been thrown at me today, fair enough, but on the scale of silliness, that might be the benchmark.

[blitzmore]

 

 

That's possible. I'm going by memory. I just recall thinking oh they will throw the flag....and then **** why didn't they throw the flag

Yep, just like all the other times O'Shea should have thrown the flag or called a time-out and didn't. The guy sleep-walks through these games having no clue what to do then stands before the media and blames the officials. You think the players don't notice this also? I just can't stomach any more of O'Shea and his mindless stares and stupid smirks. I wouldn't even mind all the losing so much if I didn't have to endure that loser.

 

Really, you're judging him on that? His facial expressions.

I'm giving him some flak on not throwing the challenge flag, but I would never assess him, cast my opinion on his ability as a CFL coach because of his facial or body mannerisms. The word silly and foolish has been thrown at me today, fair enough, but on the scale of silliness, that might be the benchmark.

 

No he isn't judging him on that...haven't you read his dozens of posts where all he wants to do is rip O'shea and everyone else in managment?

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to ask...since when has O'Shea backed away from throwing a challenge? He has to have something to base it on, you know a player's word, an actual view or a spotter. Throwing a flag on what? A whim? Lose a timeout on a whim? You can't be serious.

I don't know, you'd have to ask him and yes I am serious. It's late in the game, my opposition just made a circus catch that I didn't get a view on yet, my opposition is all of a sudden running hurry up to get on the ball quick when they should be taking their time so I need to slow things down now, what's at my disposal? Time out or challenge flag. I choose the challenge flag because the bonus is there's a chance it could be overturned based on Calgary not wanting it reviewed. Little bit more than a whim.

You'll probably find that very few professional level coaches use "the force" to make critical decisions. I'm thinking that they rely a lot more on evidence, which O'Shea didn't have available to him at that particular moment.

The other way to look at it was he made a decision, without any evidence, to let the play go. If he didn't have time to compile that evidence (Calgary rushing to the ball), you simply let it go? No, you use your options to have time to collect that evidence especially being how critical that play was and the time we had left in the game. Yes I risk losing a timeout, the flip side is I risk letting Calgary move up the field on a non legit play.

Doesn't the team have multiple people watching? I find it hard to believe no one saw even the possibility of a non catch? I think everyone was mystified by the circus catch. It was very obvious on reply. Id expect someone somewhere to raise an eyebrow at game speed since it's their bread and butter

Have you not read the entirety of the thread? And in real speed it looked like a good catch. It wasn't until after the Stamps ran their next play that TSN showed a definitive replay that looked like the ball hit the ground.

And those two idiots (Black & Suitor) were still sporting chubbies over the non catch.

I believe the replay was shown before he next play. I saw it as a non catch and assumed the flag was coming and the next play then began

 

 

 

Go re watch the game  and you'll see that there was very little time before the ball was snapped.  The best and most definitive replay was shown after the Stamps ran their next play.   

 

I would hazard a guess that Calgary would not be in a position to have any more information than Winnipeg, except if the receiver said it was a non catch. 

[Mr Dee]

O'Shea addressed the issue of the non-challenge and stated that the jumbo tron did not show the entire replay and by time they saw the replay upstairs and confirmed it, the next play had been snapped.

[HardCoreBlue]

O'Shea addressed the issue of the non-challenge and stated that the jumbo tron did not show the entire replay and by time they saw the replay upstairs and confirmed it, the next play had been snapped.

It pains me to say, but kudos to Calgary, they played it perfectly.

To me, and here I'm actually not being critical, just identifying a flaw in the system.

A lessons learned, If we don't have the tape at that moment where we have to make an immediate decision on plays that can be challenged at a critical juncture of the game (critical being the key word) and the opposition is doing everything it can to get the next play off, what do we do at that moment? imo, if it's not critical, we're less verklemped in letting the play go but if it's at a critical point in the game where field position, possession, we're behind in the score and time is running out , I'm now more verclemped in letting it go because the impact is now huge, so I call a timeout, have a player fake an injury (which I'm sure never happens) or throw the challenge flag. And as Forest Gump would say that's all I have to say about that.

[Mr Dee]

A timeout is an important tool for a Head Coach to use...at the proper time. Gambling one on a play on no more than an educated whim is preposterous.

Give it up, you are not correct with this whimsical nonsense.

[Goalie]

Command center don't have the option to ring down to the refs?

[B-F-F-C]

 

O'Shea addressed the issue of the non-challenge and stated that the jumbo tron did not show the entire replay and by time they saw the replay upstairs and confirmed it, the next play had been snapped.

It pains me to say, but kudos to Calgary, they played it perfectly.

To me, and here I'm actually not being critical, just identifying a flaw in the system.

A lessons learned, If we don't have the tape at that moment where we have to make an immediate decision on plays that can be challenged at a critical juncture of the game (critical being the key word) and the opposition is doing everything it can to get the next play off, what do we do at that moment? imo, if it's not critical, we're less verklemped in letting the play go but if it's at a critical point in the game where field position, possession, we're behind in the score and time is running out , I'm now more verclemped in letting it go because the impact is now huge, so I call a timeout, have a player fake an injury (which I'm sure never happens) or throw the challenge flag. And as Forest Gump would say that's all I have to say about that.

 

 

While I don't disagree with your points. If you look at last nights catch in isolation in real time.  The catch looks to be good and no reason to challenge.  It was the replay from the opposite angle that showed that the ball hit the ground. 

 

To me it looked like an amazing circus catch by the #1 receiver in the league.    

[HardCoreBlue]

A timeout is an important tool for a Head Coach to use...at the proper time. Gambling one on a play on no more than an educated whim is preposterous.

Give it up, you are not correct with this whimsical nonsense.

 

A timeout is an important tool for a Head Coach to use...at the proper time. Gambling one on a play on no more than an educated whim is preposterous.

Give it up, you are not correct with this whimsical nonsense.

Why be so patronizing?

I just think challenging that play would have been a strategic thing he could have done at that moment with what was happening. 

20 20 hindsight would suggest the non-action gamble (because that's what it was) cost us on that particular play. I believe that call would have been overturned which would have dramatically changed the course of events but none of us will never know.

Mix in the non-penalty call we get later adds salt to the wound.

[B-F-F-C]

 

A timeout is an important tool for a Head Coach to use...at the proper time. Gambling one on a play on no more than an educated whim is preposterous.

Give it up, you are not correct with this whimsical nonsense.

 

A timeout is an important tool for a Head Coach to use...at the proper time. Gambling one on a play on no more than an educated whim is preposterous.

Give it up, you are not correct with this whimsical nonsense.

Why be so patronizing?

I just think challenging that play would have been a strategic thing he could have done at that moment with what was happening. 

20 20 hindsight would suggest the non-action gamble (because that's what it was) cost us on that particular play. I believe that call would have been overturned which would have dramatically changed the course of events but none of us will never know.

Mix in the non-penalty call we get later adds salt to the wound.

 

 

You're overlooking the facts and using 20 20 hindsight to support your argument.  As I said and if you re watch the play.  The angle of the camera showed what everyone saw as a good catch.  No coach would throw a flag without seeing something in the real time play that needed to be challenged or word from the spotters viewing the replay that there was reason to challenge. 

 

But keep trying.