Fire O'Shea

[iso_55]

Wow, isn't this fun? At least you can spell. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Well, if the Bombers don t fire MOS after this season then they will midway thru next season when we're something like 2-6 or 2-7 because we'll never be close to being a winner with him as head coach. #holyhyberbole

Fixed for accuracy.

It's hyperbole, not hyberbole. So much for accuracy, you can't even spell.

Apologies, fat fingers. Hyperbole, nonetheless. Back away from the cliff and discuss rationally.

[Guest J5V]

If O`Shea is kept for next season, he might surprise and do great, but the odds are against him. I do not recall any coach who got off to such a horrible two-year record and rebounded to be a good coach.

It's the poor team discipline (penalties, assignments), poor roster management (players and coaches), poor in-game decision making (clock management, time-outs, challenge flags, adjustments), and poor general perception of reality (what's-going-on-paralysis, deer-in-the-headlights-look) that concern me most. I get that he was a rookie head coach last season and that we had to suck it up while he learned on the job but I had hoped to see huge improvements in these areas by now. The fact that we haven't tells me that we are not likely too. I can tolerate the chip on the shoulder, stubbornness, and arrogance if those other things are there.

[Guest J5V]

If Walters leaves for Guelph MOS is toast. Might be a moot point in 2 months.

Last I heard Guelph had not approached Walters and he was completely committed to his job as GM of the Bombers. Has something changed?

[Guest J5V]

The only problem with O'Shea is that he has too much confidence in players who are a net negative on the team. The killers this year are Stoudermire, Hajrullahu, Picard and Neufeld. Put competent players in those roles and the Bombers are easily .500 and probably nipping Calgary's heels as they have two wins on us they don't deserve.

Agree but what competent players do you put in there ... Veltung for Stoudermire? Castillo for Hajrullahu? Goosen for Picard? ??? for Neufeld? Who do you have in mind?

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

 

 

Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance.

Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data.

If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it.

If you ignore context, you're doomed to sound like an idiot.

 

Yup... let's ignore history because context (excuses) are so much more reliable. #haha

 

As long as we want to remember history, let's do that by all means.  I'm looking at our history of cleaning house every couple of years.  Seems to me that we haven't done so well doing that, but by all means, let's do it again because 5th-or-6th-or7th time's the charm, right?

[iso_55]

 

 

 

Well, if the Bombers don t fire MOS after this season then they will midway thru next season when we're something like 2-6 or 2-7 because we'll never be close to being a winner with him as head coach. #holyhyberbole

Fixed for accuracy.

It's hyperbole, not hyberbole. So much for accuracy, you can't even spell.

Apologies, fat fingers. Hyperbole, nonetheless. Back away from the cliff and discuss rationally.

 

LOL! It's the internet curse, don't you know?

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance.

Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data.

If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it.

If you ignore context, you're doomed to sound like an idiot.

 

Yup... let's ignore history because context (excuses) are so much more reliable. #haha

 

As long as we want to remember history, let's do that by all means.  I'm looking at our history of cleaning house every couple of years.  Seems to me that we haven't done so well doing that, but by all means, let's do it again because 5th-or-6th-or7th time's the charm, right?

 

Maybe if the Bombers got it right every once in awhile... But they never do. 

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

 

 

 

Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance.

Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data.

If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it.

If you ignore context, you're doomed to sound like an idiot.

 

Yup... let's ignore history because context (excuses) are so much more reliable. #haha

 

As long as we want to remember history, let's do that by all means.  I'm looking at our history of cleaning house every couple of years.  Seems to me that we haven't done so well doing that, but by all means, let's do it again because 5th-or-6th-or7th time's the charm, right?

 

The main debate, if we're all playing the role of GM, is how much patience do you show for your head coach before it's time to change?

Obviously subjective and full of varying influences. But is there some general number that can be used as as a marker? Or is it strictly scenario by scenario that you can't put a number on?

For myself, I think you give MOS one year with an option (can you do that with a head coach - option?) to demonstrate we're heading in the right direction, i.e., is in the running to win it all.  

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance.

Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data.

If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it.

If you ignore context, you're doomed to sound like an idiot.

 

Yup... let's ignore history because context (excuses) are so much more reliable. #haha

 

As long as we want to remember history, let's do that by all means.  I'm looking at our history of cleaning house every couple of years.  Seems to me that we haven't done so well doing that, but by all means, let's do it again because 5th-or-6th-or7th time's the charm, right?

 

The main debate, if we're all playing the role of GM, is how much patience do you show for your head coach before it's time to change?

Obviously subjective and full of varying influences. But is there some general number that can be used as as a marker? Or is it strictly scenario by scenario that you can't put a number on?

For myself, I think you give MOS one year with an option (can you do that with a head coach - option?) to demonstrate we're heading in the right direction, i.e., is in the running to win it all.  

 

You'll never attract a top quality head football coach with such a short contract. 

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance.

Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data.

If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it.

If you ignore context, you're doomed to sound like an idiot.

 

Yup... let's ignore history because context (excuses) are so much more reliable. #haha

 

As long as we want to remember history, let's do that by all means.  I'm looking at our history of cleaning house every couple of years.  Seems to me that we haven't done so well doing that, but by all means, let's do it again because 5th-or-6th-or7th time's the charm, right?

 

The main debate, if we're all playing the role of GM, is how much patience do you show for your head coach before it's time to change?

Obviously subjective and full of varying influences. But is there some general number that can be used as as a marker? Or is it strictly scenario by scenario that you can't put a number on?

For myself, I think you give MOS one year with an option (can you do that with a head coach - option?) to demonstrate we're heading in the right direction, i.e., is in the running to win it all.  

 

You'll never attract a top quality head football coach with such a short contract. 

 

I understand what you're saying, but controlling for whether you think MOS is top quality or not, are you suggesting MOS would walk if this was offered?

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance.

Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data.

If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it.

If you ignore context, you're doomed to sound like an idiot.

 

Yup... let's ignore history because context (excuses) are so much more reliable. #haha

 

As long as we want to remember history, let's do that by all means.  I'm looking at our history of cleaning house every couple of years.  Seems to me that we haven't done so well doing that, but by all means, let's do it again because 5th-or-6th-or7th time's the charm, right?

 

The main debate, if we're all playing the role of GM, is how much patience do you show for your head coach before it's time to change?

Obviously subjective and full of varying influences. But is there some general number that can be used as as a marker? Or is it strictly scenario by scenario that you can't put a number on?

For myself, I think you give MOS one year with an option (can you do that with a head coach - option?) to demonstrate we're heading in the right direction, i.e., is in the running to win it all.  

 

You'll never attract a top quality head football coach with such a short contract. 

 

I understand what you're saying, but controlling for whether you think MOS is top quality or not, are you suggesting MOS would walk if this was offered?

 

I suggest he'd probably have stayed in Toronto. Certainly I don't think anyone else would have applied either. Coaches are hired to be fired & need some kind of soft landing when it does happen. 

[LeBird]

the hiring of rookie coaches experiment should have run its course. 

[iso_55]

 

If Walters leaves for Guelph MOS is toast. Might be a moot point in 2 months.

Last I heard Guelph had not approached Walters and he was completely committed to his job as GM of the Bombers. Has something changed?

 

Just sayin'. 

[Goalie]

the hiring of rookie coaches experiment should have run its course.

Name a veteran coach who isn't 70 who would come here. No to Higgins. There isn't one

[gbill2004]

the hiring of rookie coaches experiment should have run its course.

Name a veteran coach who isn't 70 who would come here. No to Higgins. There isn't one

Gary Crowton is available. Casey Creehan.

[iso_55]

 

the hiring of rookie coaches experiment should have run its course.

Name a veteran coach who isn't 70 who would come here. No to Higgins. There isn't one

 

Well then, it's hopeless. Fold the team.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

The only problem with O'Shea is that he has too much confidence in players who are a net negative on the team. The killers this year are Stoudermire, Hajrullahu, Picard and Neufeld. Put competent players in those roles and the Bombers are easily .500 and probably nipping Calgary's heels as they have two wins on us they don't deserve.

Agree but what competent players do you put in there ... Veltung for Stoudermire? Castillo for Hajrullahu? Goosen for Picard? ??? for Neufeld? Who do you have in mind?

 

 

There's about 10000 football players who are pro quality looking for work south of the border.  Should be able to find a kick returner who doesn't kill the team and a punter.  I'd be playing 3 imports on the OL until we have a 3rd capable NI, and I'd bring in a guy who actually is a guard to play inside, not be moving guys like Capers who is a tackle, inside.  Easier to hide a weaker NI player at receiver or in the DL rotation.

[iso_55]

 

 

The only problem with O'Shea is that he has too much confidence in players who are a net negative on the team. The killers this year are Stoudermire, Hajrullahu, Picard and Neufeld. Put competent players in those roles and the Bombers are easily .500 and probably nipping Calgary's heels as they have two wins on us they don't deserve.

Agree but what competent players do you put in there ... Veltung for Stoudermire? Castillo for Hajrullahu? Goosen for Picard? ??? for Neufeld? Who do you have in mind?

 

 

There's about 10000 football players who are pro quality looking for work south of the border.  Should be able to find a kick returner who doesn't kill the team and a punter.  I'd be playing 3 imports on the OL until we have a 3rd capable NI, and I'd bring in a guy who actually is a guard to play inside, not be moving guys like Capers who is a tackle, inside.

 

What a concept!! It only makes sense.

[Guest J5V]

 

 

The only problem with O'Shea is that he has too much confidence in players who are a net negative on the team. The killers this year are Stoudermire, Hajrullahu, Picard and Neufeld. Put competent players in those roles and the Bombers are easily .500 and probably nipping Calgary's heels as they have two wins on us they don't deserve.

Agree but what competent players do you put in there ... Veltung for Stoudermire? Castillo for Hajrullahu? Goosen for Picard? ??? for Neufeld? Who do you have in mind?

 

 

There's about 10000 football players who are pro quality looking for work south of the border.  Should be able to find a kick returner who doesn't kill the team and a punter.  I'd be playing 3 imports on the OL until we have a 3rd capable NI, and I'd bring in a guy who actually is a guard to play inside, not be moving guys like Capers who is a tackle, inside.  Easier to hide a weaker NI player at receiver or in the DL rotation.

 

[Adrenaline_x]

I was in the fire osh camp a few weeks back but I'm not anymore.

We were in the last two games right into the dyin seconds and we're screwed by the refs against Calgary. We were screwed by an anemic offense with no imagination(going on 6 years now).

The defence has done a complete 180 from last year and made Riley look like a rookie running for his life and had Mitchell looking ordinary. All things being equal, with willy in for the last two games I believe we win those games.

MB has to go and should have been gone with crouton. If Oshawa wants to keep MB then that it, pull the plug. Mid Shea punts MB and brings in a creative, promising of then give him one more year. Walters MUST find better import receivers and better linemen. But I'm guessing MB has a lot to do with our horrible ou online is and how often he tries to run up the gut over and over when it's never working.

The team is not quitting and that suggests strong leadership and buy in from the players.. Osh needs a better OC and better receivers for willy to throw through. The Defense under halls watch is fun to watch and becoming dominate.

Sorry for iPad autocorrect issues, but I'm to lazy to edit.

[SPuDS]

the hiring of rookie coaches experiment should have run its course.

Name a veteran coach who isn't 70 who would come here. No to Higgins. There isn't one

Gary Crowton is available. Casey Creehan.

As head coaches?! They were borderline competent as coordinators.

[Jpan85]

Adams Denmark and Moore have been really good when together. Import WR not a big issue as some make of it.

[GCn20]

 

 

 

the hiring of rookie coaches experiment should have run its course.

Name a veteran coach who isn't 70 who would come here. No to Higgins. There isn't one

Gary Crowton is available. Casey Creehan.

As head coaches?! They were borderline competent as coordinators.

 

 

 

I would like to believe he was joking because neither of these guys even approach competency as coordinators.

[GCn20]

Adams Denmark and Moore have been really good when together. Import WR not a big issue as some make of it.

 

I think people would like that elusive 4th impact import receiver so that there would be no justification for dressing a Bastien or a JFG.