DR. CFL Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 The interesting aspect of having a GM mentor MOS then makes the assumption that a new GM would then decided he even wanted MOS as his HC.
17to85 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards.
Guest J5V Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 The interesting aspect of having a GM mentor MOS then makes the assumption that a new GM would then decided he even wanted MOS as his HC. Good point. A GM and a HC should have compatible skill sets. In our case, our GM, Walters, and HC, Mike O'Shea, have almost no skill set. Walters and O'Shea were both ST coaches. I don't think either one of them understands offense. I don't think it's a coincidence our offense sucks. They probably both think MB is a genius which is scary!
WBBFanWest Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi
rebusrankin Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Do you make a condition of employment for MOS to replace MB? I would. Also I call BS on Noeller's comment about clear upgrades. We had the worst offense yardagewise last season too. You could throw a rock and chances are hit an upgrade at OC.
Noeller Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi and he tossed Etch and Kuale! SPuDS 1
Noeller Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Do you make a condition of employment for MOS to replace MB? I would. Also I call BS on Noeller's comment about clear upgrades. We had the worst offense yardagewise last season too. You could throw a rock and chances are hit an upgrade at OC. Except the belief is that those poor offense numbers were due to an injured Drew Willy/Poor OL talent rather than MB's ineptitude...
Mr Dee Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I'm pretty sure both Walters and O'Shea recognize what a successful Offence should look like. SPuDS 1
Noeller Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I'm pretty sure both Walters and O'Shea recognize what a successful Offence should look like. Without question, but I'm not certain they blame MB for the current failures, or if they want to blame injuries, etc...
SPuDS Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I'm pretty sure both Walters and O'Shea recognize what a successful Offence should look like.Without question, but I'm not certain they blame MB for the current failures, or if they want to blame injuries, etc... It really would be great to get walters and oshea out for beers without any prying eyes and get to hear exactly what they think and feel without any risk of penalty or harm.
SPuDS Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I believe one of the biggest glaring issues with our offense is inital timing.. Those wobbling, floating snaps at the qbs face or higher pull qbs eyes away from defense, make the RBs a step behind the blocking and cause the QB to lose 1 of his steamboats. I assume goose isnt ready to bark the assignments or confident enough to block one on one when it comes to it as there is no way his snaps could be any worse..
TBURGESS Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 You guys are trying to suggest that we'd have kept Etch if Hall and Benevides hadn't been available? WOW. If that's true then O'Shea needs to be gone RFN. Keeping Etch around after last years performance would be like keeping MB around after last years performance. Hmmm. Insert a Roseanne Roseannadanna-esc Never mind here.
17to85 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi Yes they do, and they prove my point. Kuale and Etch both got tossed on their asses, just not as quickly as fans wanted, IE. O'Shea is patient but will make changes. He also tossed Tracey despite him being a guy O'Shea was close to. He will make the hard decisions and turf people you think he is loyal to, but he appears more patient than loyal and as I said, no wonder that rubs some fans the wrong way, lots of impatient people around these parts.
WBBFanWest Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi and he tossed Etch and Kuale! Yes he did, but after the damage had been done and the season was over. He stuck by both even though it was clear that neither was good enough. In the case of Etch, it was pretty clear that he agonized over the decision, which is completely baffling to me because Etch was so incredibly bad. And you don't wait an entire season to see if an under performing MLB will suddenly "get it" especially when he was doing the same thing with another team before we signed him. Instead, you march down to your GM and get him to find you someone else chop bloody chop. So sorry, waiting for season's end to fix stuff doesn't count in my books. And I will grant that maybe, he's slowly starting to get it when you bring up Tracey but I think that O'Shea is also sensing that the sand is running out of the hourglass. For me, the sign that he's truly getting it will be if MB is let go and how quickly it happens. Because if O'Shea has to agonize over MB like he did Etch, it tells me that he really doesn't get it.
do or die Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Problem is that some folks see yet another season, circling around the drain, while waiting for some of these (seemingly obvious) decisions. Based on body of work, Marcel should simply of left with Etch.... Having one guy (Marve) with 3 ACLs, already...who was viewed by most as a project, and another guy who supposedly was the experienced and ready to play option (Brohm).... as our backups, didn't help matters.... Overall, one could still have doubts about the evaluation process, round here....
17to85 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi and he tossed Etch and Kuale! Yes he did, but after the damage had been done and the season was over. He stuck by both even though it was clear that neither was good enough. In the case of Etch, it was pretty clear that he agonized over the decision, which is completely baffling to me because Etch was so incredibly bad. And you don't wait an entire season to see if an under performing MLB will suddenly "get it" especially when he was doing the same thing with another team before we signed him. Instead, you march down to your GM and get him to find you someone else chop bloody chop. So sorry, waiting for season's end to fix stuff doesn't count in my books. You're still confusing loyalty with patience.
17to85 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Problem is that some folks see yet another season, circling around the drain, while waiting for some of these (seemingly obvious) decisions. Based on body of work, Marcel should simply of left with Etch.... Having one guy (Marve) with 3 ACLs, already...who was viewed by most as a project, and another guy who supposedly was the experienced and ready to play option (Brohm).... as our backups, didn't help matters.... Overall, one could still have doubts about the evaluation process, round here.... But doesn't that particular issue rest in Kyle Walters lap rather than O'Sheas? Afterall the only competition in camp was Portis who wasn't as good as anyone and Yantz the token Canadian feel good story. I see more GM failings on this team than head coach failings. Regardless of what we think about Bellefool, can we honestly say this team has enough talent? They signed Chevon Walker for gods sake! That's just bad GMing right there. Has Kyle Walters recruited any receivers we can put on the field and expect a good performance from? Denmark came from Mack, Moore from BC, Adams from Toronto, Kohlert from Mack, JFG seems to me was an O'Shea guy, where are the receivers that Kyle Walters brought to this team? It's been a couple years now surely at least one should have shown up. You can't win in the CFL unless you are able to recruit some talent.
Noeller Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I dont' like this hindsight "Our back-up QBs were the shits all along!" stuff, either, because before this season virtually everyone on this board was RAVING about our QB depth and how we could trade one of them for a top pick or roster player or blah blah blah whatever. After this season, there's a lot of revisionist history going on.
rebusrankin Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Do you make a condition of employment for MOS to replace MB? I would. Also I call BS on Noeller's comment about clear upgrades. We had the worst offense yardagewise last season too. You could throw a rock and chances are hit an upgrade at OC. Except the belief is that those poor offense numbers were due to an injured Drew Willy/Poor OL talent rather than MB's ineptitude... Drew started 17 of 18 last year. The same issues existed in 08 in Hamilton and 07 in Montreal. They were blind or stupid if they couldn't see the issues last year. If MOS keeps MB for next year he deserves to be canned. Bigblue204 1
do or die Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Problem is that some folks see yet another season, circling around the drain, while waiting for some of these (seemingly obvious) decisions. Based on body of work, Marcel should simply of left with Etch.... Having one guy (Marve) with 3 ACLs, already...who was viewed by most as a project, and another guy who supposedly was the experienced and ready to play option (Brohm).... as our backups, didn't help matters.... Overall, one could still have doubts about the evaluation process, round here.... But doesn't that particular issue rest in Kyle Walters lap rather than O'Sheas? Afterall the only competition in camp was Portis who wasn't as good as anyone and Yantz the token Canadian feel good story. I see more GM failings on this team than head coach failings. Regardless of what we think about Bellefool, can we honestly say this team has enough talent? They signed Chevon Walker for gods sake! That's just bad GMing right there. Has Kyle Walters recruited any receivers we can put on the field and expect a good performance from? Denmark came from Mack, Moore from BC, Adams from Toronto, Kohlert from Mack, JFG seems to me was an O'Shea guy, where are the receivers that Kyle Walters brought to this team? It's been a couple years now surely at least one should have shown up. You can't win in the CFL unless you are able to recruit some talent. Subpar OC does not help. In the main, would agree that MOS is not playing with the strongest deck. That said.... 2/3rds of this team has not reflected the attitude/intensity of MOS the player. Yet. When that happens consistently - Mike has taken the next step forward.
WBBFanWest Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 What I desperately wish for is an experienced GM that could sit O'Shea down and mentor him. Explain how loyalty is great, but winning is greater. I don't think that Walters has the chops to do that and as a result the team suffers because of O'Shea's misplaced loyalty to coaches and players that just aren't good enough. He may just have to learn the hard way that keeping coaches and players that aren't that good, but who really love you just means that you'll have lots of guys willing to carry stuff out to your car as you clean out your office. Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi and he tossed Etch and Kuale! Yes he did, but after the damage had been done and the season was over. He stuck by both even though it was clear that neither was good enough. In the case of Etch, it was pretty clear that he agonized over the decision, which is completely baffling to me because Etch was so incredibly bad. And you don't wait an entire season to see if an under performing MLB will suddenly "get it" especially when he was doing the same thing with another team before we signed him. Instead, you march down to your GM and get him to find you someone else chop bloody chop. So sorry, waiting for season's end to fix stuff doesn't count in my books. You're still confusing loyalty with patience. No sorry, I'm not. Patience is waiting to see if you can correct a problem, but acting when it becomes apparent that you can't Loyalty (the problematic kind) is hanging onto someone long after they've demonstrated that they are just not good enough under some delusion that a bolt from the blue will strike and they'll suddenly morph into the player/coach you always knew they would be. I will grant that it is possible that what we are seeing is not misplaced loyalty, but sheer stubbornness, or pride. Label it what you will, but the results seem to be the same.
do or die Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I dont' like this hindsight "Our back-up QBs were the shits all along!" stuff, either, because before this season virtually everyone on this board was RAVING about our QB depth and how we could trade one of them for a top pick or roster player or blah blah blah whatever. After this season, there's a lot of revisionist history going on. Marve was one thing...a prospect at least with upside. 8 yr. pro Brohm was quite another. Following on the heels of Boltus, it is fair to ask why we cannot acquire/DEVELOP QBs for the last million years.....
Noeller Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I dont' like this hindsight "Our back-up QBs were the shits all along!" stuff, either, because before this season virtually everyone on this board was RAVING about our QB depth and how we could trade one of them for a top pick or roster player or blah blah blah whatever. After this season, there's a lot of revisionist history going on. Marve was one thing...a prospect at least with upside. 8 yr. pro Brohm was quite another. Following on the heels of Boltus, it is fair to ask why we cannot acquire/DEVELOP QBs for the last million years..... But, agian, Brohm looked really good in spot duty last year and this past off-season people raved about him AND Marve. So it's only this year that the anti-Brohm stuff has begun.
Mr Dee Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I don't subscribe to the theory that it was just Walters who gave his stamp of approval to the "stacked" backups that we had in our progression line. We, as fans, were excited to be provided with a stable of QBs who were approved by at least Danny McManus, Walters, Marcel Bellefeuille, and O'Shea. They were familiar with both Brohm and Portis, and somebody must have approved Marve besides McManus. And they were wrong on all 3. And not just 'close' wrong, but 'far off' wrong, and that cost us...big time. We're only in it (playoff race) now because Walters managed to snag a 'real' backup in Nichols. So, who is innocent in assessing these guys outside of game conditions? Tough call to be wrong on all 3..
17to85 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 I don't subscribe to the theory that it was just Walters who gave his stamp of approval to the "stacked" backups that we had in our progression line. We, as fans, were excited to be provided with a stable of QBs who were approved by at least Danny McManus, Walters, Marcel Bellefeuille, and O'Shea. They were familiar with both Brohm and Portis, and somebody must have approved Marve besides McManus. And they were wrong on all 3. And not just 'close' wrong, but 'far off' wrong, and that cost us...big time. We're only in it (playoff race) now because Walters managed to snag a 'real' backup in Nichols. So, who is innocent in assessing these guys outside of game conditions? Tough call to be wrong on all 3.. Well ultimately it comes down to Walters because he picked the scouting staff.
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