bb1 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 I think it's more of a sign that nobody was really available to come here. People can say Cortez or Chapdelaine or Maas but... I really don't think they were legit options for us. Maybe MOS did want to get rid of bellefool but nobody was really available to replace him. Maybe the decision to keep MB was all 3 of miller Walters and MOS. MOS can say what he wants in the media but.... who knows really what he wanted to do. Keeping MB was a bad decision but I don't think it's a sign he's a bad coach. If MB is fired soon then MOS has learned. That's all you can hope for as a coach. The O failing isn't on MOS... it's on MB.If your win loss record reflects who you retain as an assistant how can it not point to a problem with the HC decision making process? rebusrankin 1
tacklewasher Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 Lawless today said that he was talking with another CFL GM and they are suggesting that if the Bombers do keep O'Shea they should extend him by at least 1 year. The theory being is that assistant coaches never get a contract longer than the head coach currently has. And if you want to sign a quality OC to replace Marcel, then you will need to offer them 2 years minimum. No quality OC will come here for a one year deal with a lame duck head coach. Another reason to fire O'Shea now? No. As I said elsewhere, offer him a conditional extension based on wins. Whether it's 50%, 60% or a playoff spot or whatever, put it in writing as the condition for an extension. He meets it, he's extended. He doesn't and the conversation is re-opened (but he is likely gone). Don't reward him for the last 2 years of ****. I don't care if it's the OC's fault, or Willy injured or what the excuse is. The last 2 years have been **** and you don't reward a HC for that. Improve or get the **** out. Any quality OC will come here fully expecting to have the HC job by labour day. rebusrankin, SPuDS and Logan007 3
SPuDS Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 I think it's more of a sign that nobody was really available to come here. People can say Cortez or Chapdelaine or Maas but... I really don't think they were legit options for us. Maybe MOS did want to get rid of bellefool but nobody was really available to replace him. Maybe the decision to keep MB was all 3 of miller Walters and MOS. MOS can say what he wants in the media but.... who knows really what he wanted to do. Keeping MB was a bad decision but I don't think it's a sign he's a bad coach. If MB is fired soon then MOS has learned. That's all you can hope for as a coach. The O failing isn't on MOS... it's on MB.If your win loss record reflects who you retain as an assistant how can it not point to a problem with the HC decision making process? Who else was available? It was rumoured that Oshea had wanted MB out mid-season but was told no by walters or miller. Probably because nobody better was able to step into his role. Now, offseason at least gives us a fair chance to lure someone or bring someone else in.. Can anyone really argue against the fact that our offense was the biggest glaring issue on this team? If we had even an average offensive performance most nights we probably come close to .500 and a playoff betth.
Noeller Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 I think it's more of a sign that nobody was really available to come here. People can say Cortez or Chapdelaine or Maas but... I really don't think they were legit options for us. Maybe MOS did want to get rid of bellefool but nobody was really available to replace him. Maybe the decision to keep MB was all 3 of miller Walters and MOS. MOS can say what he wants in the media but.... who knows really what he wanted to do. Keeping MB was a bad decision but I don't think it's a sign he's a bad coach. If MB is fired soon then MOS has learned. That's all you can hope for as a coach. The O failing isn't on MOS... it's on MB.If your win loss record reflects who you retain as an assistant how can it not point to a problem with the HC decision making process? Who else was available? It was rumoured that Oshea had wanted MB out mid-season but was told no by walters or miller. Probably because nobody better was able to step into his role. Now, offseason at least gives us a fair chance to lure someone or bring someone else in.. Can anyone really argue against the fact that our offense was the biggest glaring issue on this team? If we had even an average offensive performance most nights we probably come close to .500 and a playoff betth. But, again, the question is going to be "What would the offense have looked like if Drew Willy was healthy for 18 games?" Is it MB or the lack of a competent starting QB? For what it's worth, I'm on the team that says a proper OC would find a way to keep DW from getting killed every game, and for that reason alone, MB needs to go. Better OCs have found ways to keep their QB healthy with worse talent than we have at OL. SPuDS 1
iso_55 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 Seven of the 9 CFL teams lost their qbs. In Hamilton's & Montreal's case it happened multiple times so I think that blows your theory on better OC's protecting their qbs.
Dragon37 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 I think it's more of a sign that nobody was really available to come here. People can say Cortez or Chapdelaine or Maas but... I really don't think they were legit options for us. Maybe MOS did want to get rid of bellefool but nobody was really available to replace him. Maybe the decision to keep MB was all 3 of miller Walters and MOS. MOS can say what he wants in the media but.... who knows really what he wanted to do. Keeping MB was a bad decision but I don't think it's a sign he's a bad coach. If MB is fired soon then MOS has learned. That's all you can hope for as a coach. The O failing isn't on MOS... it's on MB.If your win loss record reflects who you retain as an assistant how can it not point to a problem with the HC decision making process? Who else was available? It was rumoured that Oshea had wanted MB out mid-season but was told no by walters or miller. Probably because nobody better was able to step into his role. Now, offseason at least gives us a fair chance to lure someone or bring someone else in.. Can anyone really argue against the fact that our offense was the biggest glaring issue on this team? If we had even an average offensive performance most nights we probably come close to .500 and a playoff betth. But, again, the question is going to be "What would the offense have looked like if Drew Willy was healthy for 18 games?" Is it MB or the lack of a competent starting QB? For what it's worth, I'm on the team that says a proper OC would find a way to keep DW from getting killed every game, and for that reason alone, MB needs to go. Better OCs have found ways to keep their QB healthy with worse talent than we have at OL. Honestly I doubt that Willy would have made much of a difference. His numbers were dropping off before he was hurt. The only games he MAY have made a difference in is in the Edmonton and Calgary games a few weeks ago. Even then who knows? Our receiving was sub-par this year, lots of drops. We had no running game. The offense was run the same way with Willy gone so that leads me to believe that there would have been likely no difference in our record. When you do the same thing over and over on offense it make the job of the defense super easy. Regardless, asking what if Willy was healthy really is moot. He wasn't and we did not have the talent to replace him. That is on MOS, Walters and the rest of the recruiting team. I have said it many times good teams find a way to win despite adversity. Teams like Hamilton and Calgary had some significant injuries or shear volumes were overwhelming and they came out on top. "What if Willy had been healthy." is nothing but an excuse. DR. CFL and iso_55 2
Taynted_Fayth Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 For sure its an excuse, but I do think theres merit behind the thought willy would have done a little better then nichols, or brohm, or marve and a few of our losses (take the last calgary and edmonton or ottawa games here) could have been wins with a little better production in the first halves. Exactly the difference in not being in the playoffs. Not that a 7-11 team would still be worth bragging about, but better then being on the outside looking in SPuDS and Mr Dee 2
Noeller Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 Healthy Drew Willy wins the Argos game that Marve nearly did, likely wins the recent Stamps/Esks games and who knows what else. I'll fight to my death that this is a playoff team with a healthy Drew Willy. Having said that, I know it's a fool's errand to play What If.....so I won't. I'm just not even close to being as negative about the entire organization as most of you seem to be. Bigblue204, Mr. Perfect, Goalie and 2 others 5
wookie Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 i agree, a healthy Drew we get to 8-10 or even 9-9, the game that killed us was the edm game at home, should have won, but i agree with Mr Tait, do not blow it up SPuDS and Noeller 2
Noeller Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 That Tait article was really well done....well reasoned.
TBURGESS Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 That Tait article was really well done....well reasoned. By that you mean you agree with him. Mark F 1
Dragon37 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 Healthy Drew Willy wins the Argos game that Marve nearly did, likely wins the recent Stamps/Esks games and who knows what else. I'll fight to my death that this is a playoff team with a healthy Drew Willy. Having said that, I know it's a fool's errand to play What If.....so I won't. I'm just not even close to being as negative about the entire organization as most of you seem to be. It is hard not to be when it has been rebuilding for a better part of 25 years and every other team in this league can do it better and faster. Two years is more than enough time to improve a team and this team hasn't even come close. Blow it up? No but it is really not a matter of a few tweaks. They have not been coached well in some time, both sides of the ball they need several players, and in two years our GM and scouts have not proven they can provide quality talent on a regular basis. I think people are a bit nuts if you think that just dumping MB is going to be the answer. Our defence was better than the O but they still surrendered an awful lot of points. They have to be near the bottom in pass yardage given up. They were absolutely brutal covering crossing plays, slants, outs and bombs. For cripes sake they gave up a TD with :38 seconds remaining in the first half of the last game. This teams needs as much work as it did when Mack was tossed out. Two years no significant improvement most of the same top pieces likely to return how am I supposed to draw any encouragement of a brighter future when there is little to prove that it can happen? I bet Saskatchewan, BC, and Montreal all improve faster than Winnipeg. Tracker, tacklewasher, rebusrankin and 3 others 6
JuranBoldenRules Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 We are the weakest team by far on both sides of the line. DL has perked up in the 2nd half of the season, but still a non-factor. As long as a stiff like Neufeld is trying to block our QB's are in constant danger. Until this is addressed you could hire God as head coach and Jesus as offensive coordinator and it wouldn't make a difference. Dragon37, pigseye and SPuDS 3
Taynted_Fayth Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 We are the weakest team by far on both sides of the line. DL has perked up in the 2nd half of the season, but still a non-factor. As long as a stiff like Neufeld is trying to block our QB's are in constant danger. Until this is addressed you could hire God as head coach and Jesus as offensive coordinator and it wouldn't make a difference. are they available and would they want to come here is the more important question Mark F and Dragon37 2
iso_55 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Posted November 4, 2015 Healthy Drew Willy wins the Argos game that Marve nearly did, likely wins the recent Stamps/Esks games and who knows what else. I'll fight to my death that this is a playoff team with a healthy Drew Willy. Having said that, I know it's a fool's errand to play What If.....so I won't. I'm just not even close to being as negative about the entire organization as most of you seem to be. Well, what if's really don't mean much. Other teams had to deal with injuries to their qbs & other positions & they were able to maintain their momentum. All it took was one key injury & our season was absolutely lost. So, you can say with Willy we'd win but we didn't. Others did. That's on management not bringing in good enough players &/or coaching. Injuries are excuses. Teams adapt or they lose. Dragon37 1
Taynted_Fayth Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 Other teams had to deal with injuries true, but I dont think anyone has argued our depth was as deep as these other teams. I would say based on at the Calgary loss (by 2 with a missed fg), the edmonton loss (by 1 with 4 missed kicks) the BC win (off a kick) and the loss to ottawa at home (by 3) that the team with better first halves and maybe a little more consistency kicking very well could be 8-9 right now. Has the season been frustrating hell yes, but you cant ignore that. Good teams find a way to win, couple breaks and perhaps we'd be saying we found those way to win
Dragon37 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 Other teams had to deal with injuries true, but I dont think anyone has argued our depth was as deep as these other teams. I would say based on at the Calgary loss (by 2 with a missed fg), the edmonton loss (by 1 with 4 missed kicks) the BC win (off a kick) and the loss to ottawa at home (by 3) that the team with better first halves and maybe a little more consistency kicking very well could be 8-9 right now. Has the season been frustrating hell yes, but you cant ignore that. Good teams find a way to win, couple breaks and perhaps we'd be saying we found those way to win You make your own breaks. Winnipeg didn't and hasn't for a few years now. How many times have they strung two wins in a row in the last four years? How about three? Four? Five? Now how many time have we lost two in a row? Three? Four? Five or more? How many key games have they managed to win? I love the Bombers but they really need to figure out what almost every other team has figured out to build a competitive team. I will be in the stands again next year but they have a lot of serious work to do to convince less devoted fans to come (back). They have big bills to pay and the only way to pay them is actually fielding a good team and not a possibly slightly less crappy team. The stands are emptying and many devoted fans are walking away. It really is do or die.
Jacquie Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 Seven of the 9 CFL teams lost their qbs. In Hamilton's & Montreal's case it happened multiple times so I think that blows your theory on better OC's protecting their qbs. Not necessarily. Some of the QB injuries had nothing to do with how well they were protected on the play.
Taynted_Fayth Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 this is where I believe the willy factor really would make a difference tho. 1-3 in that 4 game stretch and the 3 losses by a combined 6 points and we'd be 8-9. if you dont think willy could have done something, anything really, in any of those first halves of those losses then you might be a hard person to believe willy is any good regardless. I havent heard anyone say our depth was really better or should have been better then any teams, but its incorrect to think we got destroyed out of the playoffs. I would say up until we got nichols (started from the banjo bowl on) our first halves stunk but we became alot more competitive then when we were getting our asses handed to us with brohm and marve. Id blame that stretch from willy going down to labour day as to why were not in the playoffs more then recent games
iso_55 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 Other teams had to deal with injuries true, but I dont think anyone has argued our depth was as deep as these other teams. I would say based on at the Calgary loss (by 2 with a missed fg), the edmonton loss (by 1 with 4 missed kicks) the BC win (off a kick) and the loss to ottawa at home (by 3) that the team with better first halves and maybe a little more consistency kicking very well could be 8-9 right now. Has the season been frustrating hell yes, but you cant ignore that. Good teams find a way to win, couple breaks and perhaps we'd be saying we found those way to win Why aren't we better? End of Year 2 & no real progress? Again, that's on management & coaching. Somehow Miller got to the media especially Lawless & turned him into a fanboy by continually writing stories in the Freep, tweeting or on TSN saying we'll be much better next year with no real basis of fact to go on. I have serious doubts about that. O'Shea has a lot of issues going forward as a head coach. One being in over his head as a coach. Next year the pressure will really be on to win. Pity the poor guy if he doesn't.
Taynted_Fayth Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 sorry i thought willy was out longer then 3.75 games prior to nichols starting, but those 4 games we got beat - including the game he went down and we had just tied it up vs hamilton - 38-8 vs hamilton, 27-20 to toronto, 36-8 vs calgary and 37-19 vs saskatchewan!!! with brohm/marve. compare that to once we got nichols
pigseye Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 We are the weakest team by far on both sides of the line. DL has perked up in the 2nd half of the season, but still a non-factor. As long as a stiff like Neufeld is trying to block our QB's are in constant danger. Until this is addressed you could hire God as head coach and Jesus as offensive coordinator and it wouldn't make a difference. O'Shea singled Paddy out as one of our MOP's on offense this year.......be afraid, be very afraid of what's to come. rebusrankin 1
rebusrankin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 MOS saying Paddy is a bright spot on offense is another reason why MOS should not be the head coach. Dragon37 and TBURGESS 2
Goalie Posted November 5, 2015 Report Posted November 5, 2015 Or he's pimping Neufeld cuz they might try to move him. Neufeld wasn't that bad this year tho all things considered SPuDS 1
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