Team Losing Because Of Coaching Decisions

[Goalie]

I don't think Marve has an attitude problem, i think he has a learning the system problem.. Listen if the guy is gonna go out and improvise all the team, it's not good, you need to learn the playbook, people can talk about conspiracies all they want but Marve has shown so far that when he has played, and taking the in love with marve goggles off, if you actually watched him play, it's complete and utter chaos... it's not exactly standing back in the pocket, going through his reads, it's look at one guy, if he's not open, take off and run. That won't win you many games.

 

People can talk about that Calgary game all they want, Cornish was hurt, it was snowing, it was crappy, Calgary didn't care even... they were trying not to get hurt really.. that entire game, Marve was 50 percent passing... that's not good enough really... and it was chaos the entire time he was playing. 

 

It's not sustainable.. the simple fact with Marve is.. i don't think he's very smart... you hear people talk about smart QB's and all this stuff, Marve is a dumb one, he has all the tools except the one he needs the most, his brain... you need to know how to read a D, you need to know how to run the system otherwise... yup might be exciting but it's gonna get not only the QB killed eventually but also some of the receivers too. 

[Goalie]

 

 

I have to seriously question what is going on behind the scenes with Marve. There is absolutely no way, after Brohm's last two outings, this team can justify keeping him as our 2nd string. The fact that he is, suggests to me that there is something very, very wrong with Marve in the coaches eyes that goes beyond his talent level. Coachability? Bad attitude? Complete inability to run the playbook? Something is keeping this guy glued to the bench when he should obviously be given a shot. It isn't that he has less talent then Brohm. I don't buy that Bellefeuille is playing favorites. There is something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I suspect that when Davis is ready that Marve will be the one getting walking papers.

Look the last 2 games were hard situations for any quarterback to come into. The team lost it's starter and it got them down mentally. There are enough excuses to be found that it is understandable that you don't make a change at qb, especially if you believe that Brohm understands the system better, and why shouldn't he? He's an older more experienced qb, I hope he understands things. That's probably a big comfort to the coaches. But don't fret about it too much, guys don't get unlimited chances to not produce. If he gets a week of prep as the starter and still goes out and poops his pants things will start to change. 

 

 

The job of a quarberback is to be able to step up in relief of the starter, even midway through a game if needed. If Brohm can't do that, what's the use in keeping him around? Especially when Marve has done admirable job in relief. There is not one aspect of Brohm's game that is attractive and he does not belong on a professional football field.

 

 

When? 

[Yourface]

 

 

 

I have to seriously question what is going on behind the scenes with Marve. There is absolutely no way, after Brohm's last two outings, this team can justify keeping him as our 2nd string. The fact that he is, suggests to me that there is something very, very wrong with Marve in the coaches eyes that goes beyond his talent level. Coachability? Bad attitude? Complete inability to run the playbook? Something is keeping this guy glued to the bench when he should obviously be given a shot. It isn't that he has less talent then Brohm. I don't buy that Bellefeuille is playing favorites. There is something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I suspect that when Davis is ready that Marve will be the one getting walking papers.

Look the last 2 games were hard situations for any quarterback to come into. The team lost it's starter and it got them down mentally. There are enough excuses to be found that it is understandable that you don't make a change at qb, especially if you believe that Brohm understands the system better, and why shouldn't he? He's an older more experienced qb, I hope he understands things. That's probably a big comfort to the coaches. But don't fret about it too much, guys don't get unlimited chances to not produce. If he gets a week of prep as the starter and still goes out and poops his pants things will start to change. 

 

 

The job of a quarberback is to be able to step up in relief of the starter, even midway through a game if needed. If Brohm can't do that, what's the use in keeping him around? Especially when Marve has done admirable job in relief. There is not one aspect of Brohm's game that is attractive and he does not belong on a professional football field.

 

 

When? 

 

 

Twice last year.

[Goalie]

You need to look at the stats then really

 

first time he got reps 

 

5 for 10 for 64 yards

 

second time

 

6/12 for 76 yards with a long of 42 so basically i know you can't do that but... you take that way and it's 5/11 for 34 yards..

 

Is that really moving the ball? or is it just a big play and then a bunch of nothing?? 

 

Pre-season don't count cuz the guy was playing against guys who are now bagging groceries and pumping gas. 

 

I like Marve and think he has potential but... i feel as tho some people are trying to make him out to be more than what he actually is.. He is a 50 percent passer, run first qb who probably has troubles learning a system and reading the D out there. He's the developmental QB right now, perhaps one day he becomes the back up but.. that day is not today, however if WILLY doesn't play, i suppose technically Marve does become the backup for one week. 

[rebusrankin]

Brohm has never thrown a touchdown as a pro QB.

 

We have been outscored 70-19 with him as our QB this year.

 

He has a QB rating of 53.8 as a Bomber.

 

Who gives a rats ass if he knows the system, the man can not play.

[Yourface]

You need to look at the stats then really

 

first time he got reps 

 

5 for 10 for 64 yards

 

second time

 

6/12 for 76 yards with a long of 42 so basically i know you can't do that but... you take that way and it's 5/11 for 34 yards..

 

Is that really moving the ball? or is it just a big play and then a bunch of nothing?? 

 

Pre-season don't count cuz the guy was playing against guys who are now bagging groceries and pumping gas. 

 

First game:

 

It's pointless to draw conclusions from 10 pass attempts because he likely would have completed a higher percentage had he played the entire game. Three of his 10 throws came in his last-minute drive, when they were down by 10 and in a hurry to throw the ball downfield. If you were to include his rushing yards, Marve was just as effective at moving the ball as Brohm (who couldn't put points on the board, largely because he lost a fumble the only time he approached the end zone).

 

Second game:

 

The weather conditions were about as bad as anyone could have imagined, especially during the second half when Marve got all of his reps. The fact that he didn't commit a single turnover in that snowstorm is an impressive feat on its own. Marve was also just as effective at moving the ball as Mitchell, and infinitely more effective than Willy in that same game.

 

Ultimately, Marve has had too few reps (all in very unusual situations) for us to really know what he's all about. But the fact is that his tools are MUCH more impressive than Brohm's, and therefore he should be given a chance, given what Brohm has done to this point.

[Logan007]

You need to look at the stats then really

 

first time he got reps 

 

5 for 10 for 64 yards

 

second time

 

6/12 for 76 yards with a long of 42 so basically i know you can't do that but... you take that way and it's 5/11 for 34 yards..

 

Is that really moving the ball? or is it just a big play and then a bunch of nothing?? 

 

Pre-season don't count cuz the guy was playing against guys who are now bagging groceries and pumping gas. 

 

I like Marve and think he has potential but... i feel as tho some people are trying to make him out to be more than what he actually is.. He is a 50 percent passer, run first qb who probably has troubles learning a system and reading the D out there. He's the developmental QB right now, perhaps one day he becomes the back up but.. that day is not today, however if WILLY doesn't play, i suppose technically Marve does become the backup for one week. 

Don't bother.  I've shown him the stats many times.  He keeps acting like they mean nothing.

[Yourface]

 

You need to look at the stats then really

 

first time he got reps 

 

5 for 10 for 64 yards

 

second time

 

6/12 for 76 yards with a long of 42 so basically i know you can't do that but... you take that way and it's 5/11 for 34 yards..

 

Is that really moving the ball? or is it just a big play and then a bunch of nothing?? 

 

Pre-season don't count cuz the guy was playing against guys who are now bagging groceries and pumping gas. 

 

I like Marve and think he has potential but... i feel as tho some people are trying to make him out to be more than what he actually is.. He is a 50 percent passer, run first qb who probably has troubles learning a system and reading the D out there. He's the developmental QB right now, perhaps one day he becomes the back up but.. that day is not today, however if WILLY doesn't play, i suppose technically Marve does become the backup for one week. 

Don't bother.  I've shown him the stats many times.  He keeps acting like they mean nothing.

 

 

They mean very little, considering the unusual situations that he played in. And despite those stats, Marve has been just as effective, if not more effective than his peers at moving the chains in those games.

[Logan007]

I think with Marve, he just wants to go out there and call his own plays rather than run the plays that Marcel is calling (which probably isn't always a bad thing because MARCEL BELLEFEUILLE!).  That's probably what they mean when he's not "learning the system".  He probably also wants to ad lib as he goes.  And the Coach's probably like that in him, and they can see that quality in him, but he's just not there yet.  He's got the talent, but he wants to rush himself to Elite Veteran QB rather then take his time and learn how to do it properly.

[Goalie]

Man, i can't believe i'm gonna say this... wouldn't normally but all this MARVE stuff after a loss is getting so insane it's getting to me lol.. I hope Marve gets to play soon and here it goes, can't believe i'm gonna say this... i hope he craps the bed big time, not because i want to see the bombers fail but.. i kind of am curious to see what people would then say...

 

Don't get me wrong here, go bombers and all but.... man, i'd love to see what some people would say if Marve went in there and sucked really badly. 

 

What would be the excuses? oh and i hope it's like plus 25 to plus 30 with no wind and no weather issues at all, i hope it's next game and i hope it's because BROHM gets hurt and is done for the season... 

 

But if i could be serious for a moment, Has brohm fully healed from his thumb injury? Could that be part of the problem this year cuz.. he wasn't as awful last year. He wasn't exactly lighting it up when he got his shots last year but.. he wasn't as awful as he has been this year either. 

[Logan007]

 

 

You need to look at the stats then really

 

first time he got reps 

 

5 for 10 for 64 yards

 

second time

 

6/12 for 76 yards with a long of 42 so basically i know you can't do that but... you take that way and it's 5/11 for 34 yards..

 

Is that really moving the ball? or is it just a big play and then a bunch of nothing?? 

 

Pre-season don't count cuz the guy was playing against guys who are now bagging groceries and pumping gas. 

 

I like Marve and think he has potential but... i feel as tho some people are trying to make him out to be more than what he actually is.. He is a 50 percent passer, run first qb who probably has troubles learning a system and reading the D out there. He's the developmental QB right now, perhaps one day he becomes the back up but.. that day is not today, however if WILLY doesn't play, i suppose technically Marve does become the backup for one week. 

Don't bother.  I've shown him the stats many times.  He keeps acting like they mean nothing.

 

 

They mean very little, considering the unusual situations that he played in. And despite those stats, Marve has been just as effective, if not more effective than his peers at moving the chains in those games.

 

Yet you keep bringing up his stats from his preseason game to compare.  Yet those stats mean even less.

[Goalie]

The pre-season stats really do mean nothing, Marve was playing against guys who are, well they aren't employed by a pro football team. The pre-season stats truly are the most meaningless of them all. 

[Yourface]

The pre-season stats really do mean nothing, Marve was playing against guys who are, well they aren't employed by a pro football team. The pre-season stats truly are the most meaningless of them all. 

 

Brohm was doing the same. I doubt that there was a significant difference in the level of competition between the two.

[GCn20]

During the offseason and through TC, I absolutely defended the decision for Brohm to be number 2 for all the reasons people are listing here, such as Marve's penchant to create chaos by missing reads, his improvising outside of the playbook, his happy feet, and his general inability to read a defence.

However, Brohm is so very clearly not a CFL capable QB. I am not advocating for Marve over Brohm, I am simply saying we simply can't keep sending Brohm out anymore. He is useless. Complete garbage that gives us no chance to win.

Marve likely doesn't provide us with much more of a chance but we should at least have a look to see how he is progressing because right now this team seems to be devoid of any backup or future QBs.

Brohm should be outright released and Marve given an appearance or two to show he has dramatically improved over last season in the brains department. If he hasn't we should cut bait with him too.

Both of these guys are multi year CFL vets. If they aren't ready to at least be half decent we should get rid of them. Brohm has proven he is not the answer at number 2, I say turn the ball over to Marve and get an answer as to where he has progressed. If he has not, get Davis ready to be number 2 ASAP and begin the airlift.

It is nonsense to be putting a slug like Brohm out on the field. The guy can't hit the broad side of a barn,.

[Yourface]

i'd love to see what some people would say if Marve went in there and sucked really badly. 

 

oh and i hope it's like plus 25 to plus 30 with no wind and no weather issues at all

 

I hope so too. That way we'll have a decent look at what Marve is capable of in ordinary situations.

 

Really, you can't just ignore the fact that Marve played in unusual situations last year. Stats always need context.

 

And again I reiterate... Marve was just as effective, if not more effective than his peers, at moving the ball in both of his appearances. Is the objective in football not to move the ball and score points? 

 

Marve was quite good in relief last year, no matter which way you look at it.

[Goalie]

But one was a green as goose crap rookie and one had a year to learn in Hamilton. That makes a difference. I don't know of many teams in the league, not many at all really that are gonna go with a rookie #2. It just doesn't work like that really.  I mean really, Marve has never played a down of pro ball in his life b4 coming here did he? Nope, he was a legit green as goose crap rookie. 

 

I dunno but i'd rather let the rookie develop properly instead of throwing his green ass in to the fire and watching him fail, i'm not that old but i'm old enough to remember several qb's over the years who had all these NCAA stats and people thought they were the second coming only to see them be cut, time and time and time again. The Brian Randalls of the world really... people thought he was gonna be our answer, coaches kept saying he's not ready, he's not ready.. then one time a coach decided to listen to the fans and put randall in to a game and randall didn't do crap.. That was the one thing i enjoyed about Mike Kelly actually, that one game where he kept listening to the fans and kept putting in every QB we had dressed, that was awesome and i thought, wow maybe some of the fans will learn that when coaches say the guy isn't ready, it means he's not ready. But nope, here we are years later... same thing all over again. 

[17to85]

Marve is doing what a lot of young rookie qbs do, when the speed of the game is too much for his brain to process he uses his legs to improvise. It's a great skill to have and one of the reasons I don't mind if he's the guy coming off the bench as opposed to Brohm, just because it's a good change of pace... but that kind of quarterbacking won't work long term as your starter. If you're lucky you'll get a year out of it before teams realize the guy can't beat them with his arm and just play to keep him in the pocket and throw the ball. Give Marve time to become a professional quarterback before we throw him to the wolves. 

[Fatty Liver]

You need to look at the stats then really

 

first time he got reps 

 

5 for 10 for 64 yards

 

second time

 

6/12 for 76 yards with a long of 42 so basically i know you can't do that but... you take that way and it's 5/11 for 34 yards..

 

Is that really moving the ball? or is it just a big play and then a bunch of nothing?? 

 

Pre-season don't count cuz the guy was playing against guys who are now bagging groceries and pumping gas. 

 

I like Marve and think he has potential but... i feel as tho some people are trying to make him out to be more than what he actually is.. He is a 50 percent passer, run first qb who probably has troubles learning a system and reading the D out there. He's the developmental QB right now, perhaps one day he becomes the back up but.. that day is not today, however if WILLY doesn't play, i suppose technically Marve does become the backup for one week. 

 

 

You need to stop looking at the stats. and re-watch the game film from last year.  By hook or by crook Marve makes things happen, moves the ball and scores points.  Much like Collaros did when he first subbed for Ray he relied on his ability to throw on the run.  Call it chaos if you like but a smart OC would figure out how to harness that chaos to the teams advantage without stifling it.  Austin and Condell seem to have figured it out.

 

As for playing Marcel's system it is a verifiable QB killer and it's a miracle that Brohm escaped from Edm. with out major damage.  Marve has a front row seat to this carnage and with his history of knee operations, I'm sure he's developed a strong belief in his own self-preservation.  Do we really want to see Marve take the kind of shot that Willy took to his knee?

[Logan007]

I personally hope Marve is good.  My points in all these threads have just been that we haven't seen enough of him to have deemed him the second string.  Now that we've seen enough of Brohm to know he really is bad, I'm ready to see Marve play.  Whether he can play well or not, though, is the big question.

[Yourface]

Giving Robert Marve his first career start wouldn't be throwing him to the wolves. Allowing him to step up in relief of an injured Willy for once, wouldn't be throwing him to the wolves. The best way for him to learn would be to throw him in real game situations. Besides, it's a near certainty that he'd give us a better chance to win than Brohm, which should be the Bombers' priority.

[TBURGESS]

I don't understand the Marve hate around here.  Some folks want him to fail just to shut up the folks who want him to succeed.  

 

We're not talking Marve vs Willy here.  We're talking Marve vs Brohm!  Think about that for a second.  Let it sink in.  Marve vs Brohm. Marve, a 50% passer with an 85.4 rating vs Brohm a 64% passer with a 53.8 rating because he's thrown 5 Ints and no TDs.

 

If we had Tate or Harris then no Marve for sure, but we don't have them.  We have Brohm.

[trueBlue83]

there's no discussion for Marve as a starter.... there's no experience there.  But we've seen enough of Brohm to know that he doesn't make quick enough decisions or have the arm.   Will Marve succeed?  Who knows.... Joey Elliott looked like a good option at one time too.  

 

And stats are meaningless in Brohm's case.... I'll even defend a few of his picks, cause they weren't his fault.  But if you look at last week, until there was like 4 minutes left, he had completed like 2 passes.  He stated to make completions in the last few minutes because the game was over, and Edmonton wasn't even trying.  At full pace, I think I remember seeing 2 for 7 and 2 picks was his stat line.  Garbage time stats mean nothing...  Milt said it best on the radio this morning.  "You can tell when a QB has it, and Brohm just doesn't!"

[rebusrankin]

Brohm is not a 64% passer, he's a 54.7% passer.

[TBURGESS]

Brohm is not a 64% passer, he's a 54.7% passer.

You're right.  I read 54% and thought I typed 54% but 64% came out.

[Goalie]

I don't see any MARVE hate, what i see is some people realizing he's still pretty much green as goose crap, i see lots of potential in him but i've been around long enough to know that you don't throw a rookie basically in to the fire immediately if you want him to succeed. I like Marve, i like what I've seen of him but.. the fact is, he is a 2nd year player, he's green still, there is no conspiracy, he's not ready obviously.. while BROHM might not be the answer, part of me wants to see him go out there and fail again and again and again so the coaches finally get that he's not good enough and needs to be sent packing. Marve tho, I don't want him to go in there and get ruined.. People can say what they want on here but if Marve went in there and stunk the joint up, man, fans would be calling for his head too. I'd like to see him developed properly, not rushed, he has potential, why do we want to ruin him b4 he even gets a chance to learn the game. 

 

With that being said and going on this "he isn't ready" stuff yet, WTH is OSHEA talking about regarding DAVIS, saying he's not ready, he looked pretty damn good running dickenson and hufnagels O in the pre-season... he can run that O but he can't ours? LOL, is ours more complicated? if it is, is that part of the problem really?