Charleston Shooting

[The Unknown Poster]

Another hot-button topic for discussion.  Below is an article about a Gun Restraining Order program.  Seems to be a wise idea within a culture that simply wont ban guns.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/opinions/horwitz-lafayette-charleston-chattanooga/index.html

 

Since its nearing election time in the US, this is now an election issue with one candidate (was it Walker?) suggesting if everyone else in the theatre was also armed, this wouldnt happen. 

 

As Canadians, our opinions will likely lean towards strict gun control.  What do you think?

[kelownabomberfan]

I support gun control.  You should always hold your sidearm with both hands while firing.

[The Unknown Poster]

Here's a wonderful one:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/27/us/florida-road-rage-killing/index.html

 

(CNN)A Florida man was shot to death in front of his family in an apparent road rage incident captured on 911 recordings.

 

Robert Doyle was driving his truck on Thursday in Citrus County when he apparently called 911 to say another driver was "trying to run me off the road."

 

Meanwhile, Candelerio Gonzalez, 44, was on the same road. His wife, Cathy Gonzalez, called 911 to report that another motorist was "driving like an idiot."

On the recording, Gonzalez can be heard saying he's going to follow Doyle to his house to get his address. The operator says, "No, no, no."

Doyle seems to realize that Gonzalez intended to follow him to his home. He tells 911: "They're following me to my house ... and the guns are already out," apparently referring to his own firearm or firearms.

 

When Doyle arrived back at his home, Gonzalez allegedly parked and got out of his truck. In a panicked voice, Cathy Gonzalez is heard telling the dispatcher that Doyle has a gun.

 

"Get somebody here now!" she said

 

Police said Doyle shot Gonzalez in front of the house. A witness said Gonzalez was backing away, but Doyle's wife said otherwise.

 

"We were in our yard and he stopped in the middle of the road and came after my husband," she told 911.

 

Cathy Gonzalez can be heard wailing, "He killed my husband! Oh my God."

 

Police said Doyle pointed his gun at Gonzalez's wife, daughter and grandson and forced them out of the truck until police arrived.

Cathy Gonzalez yells to the 911 dispatcher: "That [man] is making me get out of my truck with my daughter! You got to help me, please."

 

Doyle was charged with second-degree murder and released from jail under $60,000 bond. Doyle and his family did not return a call to CNN seeking comment.

 

 

****Just reaks of the inherent arrogance associated too often with gun owners, that even though police are already involved and there has been no threats made or implied, the guy with the gun puffs out his chest and feels 'hey, follow me and Im justified in killing you' or "stand on my drive way and Ill shoot you dead".  Just ridiculous.

[basslicker]

All governments would love to have their citizens to be completely defenseless.

Makes the sheep more easily herded.

I oppose governments having too much power.

yes people die by guns, but they die in many ways. I'd rather trust the gun in my holster than the gun wielded by authority.

Too bad so many people are brainwashed by media to believe all gun owners are homicidal conservative nut jobs.

Most are law-abiding citizens.

Criminals are criminals and will have guns regardless, so why make the honest people defenseless?

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

All governments would love to have their citizens to be completely defenseless.

Makes the sheep more easily herded.

I oppose governments having too much power.

yes people die by guns, but they die in many ways. I'd rather trust the gun in my holster than the gun wielded by authority.

Too bad so many people are brainwashed by media to believe all gun owners are homicidal conservative nut jobs.

Most are law-abiding citizens.

Criminals are criminals and will have guns regardless, so why make the honest people defenseless?

 

I have three questions....

 

1)  Why do you need to carry around a gun?

2)  Have you ever needed to use it to defend yourself and/or your loved ones/property?

3)  Do you train regularly in use of your gun to maintain proficiency? (like the police and armed forces personnel do)

[Fatty Liver]

As Obama said recently terrorist related activity in the U.S. killed less than 100 people last year, guns over 10,000.

[Logan007]

 

All governments would love to have their citizens to be completely defenseless.

Makes the sheep more easily herded.

I oppose governments having too much power.

yes people die by guns, but they die in many ways. I'd rather trust the gun in my holster than the gun wielded by authority.

Too bad so many people are brainwashed by media to believe all gun owners are homicidal conservative nut jobs.

Most are law-abiding citizens.

Criminals are criminals and will have guns regardless, so why make the honest people defenseless?

 

I have three questions....

 

1)  Why do you need to carry around a gun?

2)  Have you ever needed to use it to defend yourself and/or your loved ones/property?

3)  Do you train regularly in use of your gun to maintain proficiency? (like the police and armed forces personnel do)

 

4) You may trust the gun in your holster, but I don't.  And I don't trust half the psycho's out there who do.

[bigg jay]

Another hot-button topic for discussion.  Below is an article about a Gun Restraining Order program.  Seems to be a wise idea within a culture that simply wont ban guns.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/opinions/horwitz-lafayette-charleston-chattanooga/index.html

 

Since its nearing election time in the US, this is now an election issue with one candidate (was it Walker?) suggesting if everyone else in the theatre was also armed, this wouldnt happen. 

 

As Canadians, our opinions will likely lean towards strict gun control.  What do you think?

 

I really don't get this kind of thinking.  Having more armed people in the theatre would have done nothing but let more bullets fly (IMO).  The gunman ambushed those people, so he was getting off shots before people had a chance to do react regardless.  He might not have died by his own hand if there were other guns, but the end result would still have been the same.

 

After a couple of these types of shootings, I'm surprised there haven't been increases in security at theatres... metal detectors at the very least.  At least there hasn't been increases up here, they may have done that down south.

[Logan007]

 

Another hot-button topic for discussion.  Below is an article about a Gun Restraining Order program.  Seems to be a wise idea within a culture that simply wont ban guns.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/opinions/horwitz-lafayette-charleston-chattanooga/index.html

 

Since its nearing election time in the US, this is now an election issue with one candidate (was it Walker?) suggesting if everyone else in the theatre was also armed, this wouldnt happen. 

 

As Canadians, our opinions will likely lean towards strict gun control.  What do you think?

 

I really don't get this kind of thinking.  Having more armed people in the theatre would have done nothing but let more bullets fly (IMO).  The gunman ambushed those people, so he was getting off shots before people had a chance to do react regardless.  He might not have died by his own hand if there were other guns, but the end result would still have been the same.

 

After a couple of these types of shootings, I'm surprised there haven't been increases in security at theatres... metal detectors at the very least.  At least there hasn't been increases up here, they may have done that down south.

 

Exactly.  One guy starts shooting, and then you pull out your gun in a dark theater and start shooting back, and you can't see well, so you start shooting at what you think is the guy and end up hitting an innocent bystander.

[basslicker]

As Obama said recently terrorist related activity in the U.S. killed less than 100 people last year, guns over 10,000.

And a large majority were suicides.

and the next in line was gang violence.

and gangs will use them illegally anyways.

[basslicker]

Another hot-button topic for discussion. Below is an article about a Gun Restraining Order program. Seems to be a wise idea within a culture that simply wont ban guns.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/opinions/horwitz-lafayette-charleston-chattanooga/index.html

Since its nearing election time in the US, this is now an election issue with one candidate (was it Walker?) suggesting if everyone else in the theatre was also armed, this wouldnt happen.

As Canadians, our opinions will likely lean towards strict gun control. What do you think?

I really don't get this kind of thinking. Having more armed people in the theatre would have done nothing but let more bullets fly (IMO). The gunman ambushed those people, so he was getting off shots before people had a chance to do react regardless. He might not have died by his own hand if there were other guns, but the end result would still have been the same.

After a couple of these types of shootings, I'm surprised there haven't been increases in security at theatres... metal detectors at the very least. At least there hasn't been increases up here, they may have done that down south.

Exactly. One guy starts shooting, and then you pull out your gun in a dark theater and start shooting back, and you can't see well, so you start shooting at what you think is the guy and end up hitting an innocent bystander.

There are many cases were armed citizens have thwarted robberies and such.

[basslicker]

All governments would love to have their citizens to be completely defenseless.

Makes the sheep more easily herded.

I oppose governments having too much power.

yes people die by guns, but they die in many ways. I'd rather trust the gun in my holster than the gun wielded by authority.

Too bad so many people are brainwashed by media to believe all gun owners are homicidal conservative nut jobs.

Most are law-abiding citizens.

Criminals are criminals and will have guns regardless, so why make the honest people defenseless?

I have three questions....

1) Why do you need to carry around a gun?

2) Have you ever needed to use it to defend yourself and/or your loved ones/property?

3) Do you train regularly in use of your gun to maintain proficiency? (like the police and armed forces personnel do)

4) You may trust the gun in your holster, but I don't. And I don't trust half the psycho's out there who do.

1) I don't carry a gun. It's illegal. But if I could I would, simply because if rather have it if I ever did need one and hope I never would. (Ever had a neighbor break down your door and try to kill your roommate?)

2) No I have not. But could have used one once if I had one at the time. (See above)

3) Yes I know how to use a gun and am a pretty good shot.

4) Not a question.

[bigg jay]

 

 

 

Another hot-button topic for discussion. Below is an article about a Gun Restraining Order program. Seems to be a wise idea within a culture that simply wont ban guns.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/opinions/horwitz-lafayette-charleston-chattanooga/index.html

Since its nearing election time in the US, this is now an election issue with one candidate (was it Walker?) suggesting if everyone else in the theatre was also armed, this wouldnt happen.

As Canadians, our opinions will likely lean towards strict gun control. What do you think?

I really don't get this kind of thinking. Having more armed people in the theatre would have done nothing but let more bullets fly (IMO). The gunman ambushed those people, so he was getting off shots before people had a chance to do react regardless. He might not have died by his own hand if there were other guns, but the end result would still have been the same.

After a couple of these types of shootings, I'm surprised there haven't been increases in security at theatres... metal detectors at the very least. At least there hasn't been increases up here, they may have done that down south.

Exactly. One guy starts shooting, and then you pull out your gun in a dark theater and start shooting back, and you can't see well, so you start shooting at what you think is the guy and end up hitting an innocent bystander.

There are many cases were armed citizens have thwarted robberies and such.

 

 

You can't compare a robbery with a sneak attack though.  The gunman isn't standing there pointing a gun & demanding money, he's standing up in the dark & opening fire on people glued to a giant screen.  Unless you are psychic, you aren't stopping that.  At best, you're returning fire AFTER he's already started shooting.

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

 

All governments would love to have their citizens to be completely defenseless.

Makes the sheep more easily herded.

I oppose governments having too much power.

yes people die by guns, but they die in many ways. I'd rather trust the gun in my holster than the gun wielded by authority.

Too bad so many people are brainwashed by media to believe all gun owners are homicidal conservative nut jobs.

Most are law-abiding citizens.

Criminals are criminals and will have guns regardless, so why make the honest people defenseless?

I have three questions....

1) Why do you need to carry around a gun?

2) Have you ever needed to use it to defend yourself and/or your loved ones/property?

3) Do you train regularly in use of your gun to maintain proficiency? (like the police and armed forces personnel do)

4) You may trust the gun in your holster, but I don't. And I don't trust half the psycho's out there who do.

1) I don't carry a gun. It's illegal. But if I could I would, simply because if rather have it if I ever did need one and hope I never would. (Ever had a neighbor break down your door and try to kill your roommate?)

2) No I have not. But could have used one once if I had one at the time. (See above)

3) Yes I know how to use a gun and am a pretty good shot.

4) Not a question.

 

 

There lies the key.  If the angry neighbour would have had a gun your roommate would probably be dead and if you would have had a gun to defend him, you'd probably be in prison and not posting on this forum.  Count your blessings.

[The Unknown Poster]

If only guns could be eradicated from the earth.

 

If someone invades my home, in that moment I might wish I had a gun.  But I'd rather take that risk than allow everyone to have guns.  The gun culture in the US is insane, backed by very powerful lobbyists.  Its really quite insane.  The lobby wont allow *any* gun control feeling its a slippery slope.  So people can buy assault rifles or whatever...like why does anyone ever need that?  Start by banning any weapons that are not reasonably for the use of hunting and home protection.  Im talking, whatever the cops generally have as their side-arm is all a person needs for "protection".  Ban everything above that.  Make the sale, purchase and possession of these now-banned weapons a major felony with mandatory prison.

 

There's a start.  Might have to go though about 100 Waco's before all is said and done though.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

I like the analogy of the man/woman that works and trains to get their black belt in karate or some sort of hand to hand fighting.  They are now able to cause real damage, even death, to another person if they were inclined to.  But they also have the discipline to control themselves and not use their skills on some drunken fool in a bar or someone that looks at them funny on the street.  Because they worked hard for that power they also have great respect for it and don't just use it whenever they feel like it.

 

Owning a firearm, much like a black belt, gives you great power.  Power to intimidate, harm or even kill another person.  But this power isn't earned by years of training and dedication, it's merely purchased at some store.  And that I think is a real problem down south.  Too many people have guns because they are scared or have "tiny endowment" issue or whatever, so they don't have the sense or discipline to just walk away or put away the gun in certain situations.  There is also the apparent ease that people with mental illnesses or criminal records can get a gun.  I am probably exaggerating here, but it seems easier to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license in the States.  

 

Take Switzerland for example. They have very high gun ownership but a fraction of the gun violence.  I would speculate that it is due to their high military service rate that requires most citizens to keep and maintain a firearm.  Training and discipline with their guns.  

 

As for robberies and assaults being prevented by people having guns, I would like to see some stats on that.  Not to be snarky, I am genuinely curious.  I had heard that areas with high gun carry and ownership sometimes had lower crime but was that just due to criminals not bothering or actual incidents where people stopped a crime in progress?  Again curious to know.  

 

Really, as it was pointed out by Jay, the only way to stop one of these gun crazies in their tracks is if you are psychic.  Otherwise by the time you pull out your gun he's already mowed down a bunch of people, possibly you as well.  Increased treatment for mental health and some common sense controls on guns would probably help down south.  I guess for me personally, unless you are training consistently at a level comparable to cops or soldiers with your gun I'm not comfortable with you standing beside me in public packing your gun against your hip.  Good thing I live in Canada I guess.

[The Unknown Poster]

As for lower crime in Concealed Carry areas, Id want to know if those are lower income or higher income areas anyway.  I have my doubts that low income, high crime areas have a lot of people with Concealed Carry permits.

[Mark F]

try discussing this on an American website. Impossible.

[Fraser]

Type II diabetes kills more people in the US than handguns and terrorism put together but people don't seem to be scared of that.

[Mark H.]

Type II diabetes kills more people in the US than handguns and terrorism put together but people don't seem to be scared of that.

Self inflicted long term death - just another first world problem.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Type II diabetes kills more people in the US than handguns and terrorism put together but people don't seem to be scared of that.

Self inflicted long term death - just another first world problem.

 

There is a lot of self inflicted harm we as a society engage in.  Smoking.  Which is now being replaced as the "cool" thing to do by vaping.  Drinking soda.  I love me some Dr Pepper. 

[Mark H.]

Type II diabetes kills more people in the US than handguns and terrorism put together but people don't seem to be scared of that.

Self inflicted long term death - just another first world problem.

There is a lot of self inflicted harm we as a society engage in. Smoking. Which is now being replaced as the "cool" thing to do by vaping. Drinking soda. I love me some Dr Pepper.

Consuming far too much meat and processed foods.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

Type II diabetes kills more people in the US than handguns and terrorism put together but people don't seem to be scared of that.

Self inflicted long term death - just another first world problem.

There is a lot of self inflicted harm we as a society engage in. Smoking. Which is now being replaced as the "cool" thing to do by vaping. Drinking soda. I love me some Dr Pepper.

Consuming far too much meat and processed foods.

 

Absolutely.  Im not very healthy.  I go through periods.  But its hilarious when you argue with people who have zero knowledge but swear meat, dairy etc is not only good for you but necessary in a human diet.  The milk lobby is unbelievably successful.

[Fatty Liver]

 

Type II diabetes kills more people in the US than handguns and terrorism put together but people don't seem to be scared of that.

Self inflicted long term death - just another first world problem.

 

 

Nothing scary about death by marshmallow.

[Jacquie]

 

 

 

Another hot-button topic for discussion. Below is an article about a Gun Restraining Order program. Seems to be a wise idea within a culture that simply wont ban guns.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/opinions/horwitz-lafayette-charleston-chattanooga/index.html

Since its nearing election time in the US, this is now an election issue with one candidate (was it Walker?) suggesting if everyone else in the theatre was also armed, this wouldnt happen.

As Canadians, our opinions will likely lean towards strict gun control. What do you think?

I really don't get this kind of thinking. Having more armed people in the theatre would have done nothing but let more bullets fly (IMO). The gunman ambushed those people, so he was getting off shots before people had a chance to do react regardless. He might not have died by his own hand if there were other guns, but the end result would still have been the same.

After a couple of these types of shootings, I'm surprised there haven't been increases in security at theatres... metal detectors at the very least. At least there hasn't been increases up here, they may have done that down south.

Exactly. One guy starts shooting, and then you pull out your gun in a dark theater and start shooting back, and you can't see well, so you start shooting at what you think is the guy and end up hitting an innocent bystander.

There are many cases were armed citizens have thwarted robberies and such.

 

There are a lot more cases of armed citizens killing innocent people or getting themselves killed.