Pocket passing QB is so yesterday

[Doublezero]

It'll be interesting to compare Winnipeg vs BC offenses this Thursday. It's no coincidence that the most dynamic offences in the CFL are run by scambler style QBs: Collaros, Mitchell, Lulay, Harris. Guys who can make plays with their feet as well as via the toss. It's exciting to watch. These teams: Calgary, Ham, BC and Argos also all are coached by ex-QBs. Meanwhile in Winnipeg, (where our coaching and management braintrust comes from the D side of the ball) we are plodding along with an offence designed around a pair of 3-step drop pocket passers in Willy and Brohm. Fans are calling for a more dynamic QB such as Robert Marve because our offensive structure, built around a limited style of QB, has basically failed. Now is the time to re-design the offence to accommodate more of a Bo-Levi or Collaros-Lulay type of QB so Marve can play a bit and give the fans some excitement. I say go for it now even if it means abandoning an offensive structure that's better suited for our #1 and #2 QBs. After all, this is the wide-open CFL. Why should we have to wait til next year and the inevitable changes that will come from another losing season, because Bomber brass were too stubborn to switch away from an old-school offence that's designed around a style of QB that's essentially ill-suited for the CFL?

[Fatty Liver]

Good points, I imagine Marcel's time in Mtl. attempting to defend Calvillo has greatly influenced his choice of systems.  Unfortunately with his skill-set Drew Willy has little hope of being anything other than a 3 step drop back QB.

[trueBlue83]

well if scrambling is what makes Marve effective (which it totally is), if he infact has some sort of a knee injury, I can see why O'Shea kept him out last week.  But I couldn't agree more that MB's time is almost up... I wanted him gone in the offseason.   Makes me wonder,  do you think LaPo would come back in an OC capacity?  i would be open to that!

[voodoochylde]

And yet, of all active quarterbacks, Willy has third most yards rushing, is third in average yards per rush and has the third longest run of any QB in the league this season  .. 

 

There's a difference between a 'pocket passer' and a guy who looks to pass first and run second .. Willy can and does extend plays with his legs.  He's done it time and again over the season and a half he's been our starter.

[Fatty Liver]

And yet, of all active quarterbacks, Willy has third most yards rushing, is third in average yards per rush and has the third longest run of any QB in the league this season  .. 

 

There's a difference between a 'pocket passer' and a guy who looks to pass first and run second .. Willy can and does extend plays with his legs.  He's done it time and again over the season and a half he's been our starter.

 

And yet, of all active quarterbacks, Willy has third most yards rushing, is third in average yards per rush and has the third longest run of any QB in the league this season  .. 

 

There's a difference between a 'pocket passer' and a guy who looks to pass first and run second .. Willy can and does extend plays with his legs.  He's done it time and again over the season and a half he's been our starter.

 

On most occasions Willy runs out of desperation, not intentionally and exposes himself to heavy hits trying to achieve a first down.  If you re-watch the first BC-Rider game, Lulay did a masterful job of running by choice, gained over 100 yds. and was never hit at the end of a run.

[Doublezero]

Well I grew up watching a scrambler like Ronnie Lancaster vs a pocket passer in Peter Liske. I loved Pete Liske for his pure throwing ability but have a soft spot for guys like Dunigan, Flutie et al, who've had success as scramblers on our 65-yard wide CFL field. Calvillo was prolific in the pocket because a) he almost always had good protection, he made quick reads and c) he got rid of the ball in a heartbeat. But with the new rules and given the way the CFL has evolved, a dual threat QB is likely to have more success and is more fun to watch.

[trueBlue83]

and Brohm is anything but quick.... both mentally and physically.... reminds me more of a 40 year old Calvillo without the arm or capability to read a defence!

[Mike]

I like how for all intents and purposes, you just eliminated Willy from the equation to push your agenda further ahead despite the fact that he's been equally productive to pretty much every single one of those quarterbacks.

 

Willy is throwing touchdowns at a higher clip than Collaros and Bo Levi, he's throwing interceptions less often than those two AND Harris, he's completing a higher rate of his passes than every one of them but Harris and on top of that, his yardage per attempt is the highest of the bunch.

 

You can keep pushing your agenda all you want, QB talent can succeed in this league in many different ways. As long as the talent is there, the production can be as well. Willy's biggest issue right now is that his play caller blows. But please ... keep telling me more about how Drew Willy is not the "right type of CFL QB"

[trueBlue83]

Willy hit Veltung with a 60 yd bomb in practice, right on the money with him in full flight.... was a beauty!  Anyone who says Willy doesn't give us our best chance to win is delusional! 

[Fatty Liver]

Here's another interesting stat. for all of you number crunchers.  In 5 games Willy has been knocked out twice.  How in the hell can the Bombers ever hope to protect him from serious damage?

[Doublezero]

I like how for all intents and purposes, you just eliminated Willy from the equation to push your agenda further ahead despite the fact that he's been equally productive to pretty much every single one of those quarterbacks.

 

Willy is throwing touchdowns at a higher clip than Collaros and Bo Levi, he's throwing interceptions less often than those two AND Harris, he's completing a higher rate of his passes than every one of them but Harris and on top of that, his yardage per attempt is the highest of the bunch.

 

You can keep pushing your agenda all you want, QB talent can succeed in this league in many different ways. As long as the talent is there, the production can be as well. Willy's biggest issue right now is that his play caller blows. But please ... keep telling me more about how Drew Willy is not the "right type of CFL QB"

I guess if wanting to see the Bombers finally start to win is an agenda, then I have an agenda.

[Mike]

 

I like how for all intents and purposes, you just eliminated Willy from the equation to push your agenda further ahead despite the fact that he's been equally productive to pretty much every single one of those quarterbacks.

 

Willy is throwing touchdowns at a higher clip than Collaros and Bo Levi, he's throwing interceptions less often than those two AND Harris, he's completing a higher rate of his passes than every one of them but Harris and on top of that, his yardage per attempt is the highest of the bunch.

 

You can keep pushing your agenda all you want, QB talent can succeed in this league in many different ways. As long as the talent is there, the production can be as well. Willy's biggest issue right now is that his play caller blows. But please ... keep telling me more about how Drew Willy is not the "right type of CFL QB"

I guess if wanting to see the Bombers finally start to win is an agenda, then I have an agenda.

 

 

It's pretty obvious you have an agenda. You're not quite at the point of making stuff up, but whenever Brohm is brought up, you make excuses for his lackluster play and whenever Willy is brought up, not only do you downplay his abilities, you go as far as padding your valid points with a bunch of nonsense just to try and get extra jabs in at the guy.

 

I literally saw you downplay Willy's numbers in the pouring rain and criticize him for not being productive and then when someone pointed out that he was playing in a torrential downpour, you ignored it entirely.

Then the next day, when talking about Brohm's performance in the same game, you let him off the hook because of the weather even though it wasn't even raining when he played.

 

If that's not having an agenda, I don't know what is.

 

On top of that - I keep seeing you mention "exciting" ... is Ricky Ray not exciting? Because that's the mold Drew Willy fits into. Is he Ricky Ray? No, but he's getting there and that's the style of pro QB he is. I feel like you don't like Willy because he doesn't dance around and get you out of your seat. The most exciting thing to me is winning, I don't care how the guy gets there to do it and the truth is, Drew Willy can and will be a winning QB in this league when they give him the best possible chance to succeed (which will basically be when our OC stops making dogshit play calls)

[M.O.A.B.]

I think the title of this thread should be...

 

Our current Offensive Coordinator is so yesterday.

[mbrg]

I don't lol very often, what with not being a teenage girl (sorry boys), but lol at the idea that any miniscule part of this offence is designed around Brian Brohm.

[Doublezero]

 

 

I like how for all intents and purposes, you just eliminated Willy from the equation to push your agenda further ahead despite the fact that he's been equally productive to pretty much every single one of those quarterbacks.

 

Willy is throwing touchdowns at a higher clip than Collaros and Bo Levi, he's throwing interceptions less often than those two AND Harris, he's completing a higher rate of his passes than every one of them but Harris and on top of that, his yardage per attempt is the highest of the bunch.

 

You can keep pushing your agenda all you want, QB talent can succeed in this league in many different ways. As long as the talent is there, the production can be as well. Willy's biggest issue right now is that his play caller blows. But please ... keep telling me more about how Drew Willy is not the "right type of CFL QB"

I guess if wanting to see the Bombers finally start to win is an agenda, then I have an agenda.

 

 

It's pretty obvious you have an agenda. You're not quite at the point of making stuff up, but whenever Brohm is brought up, you make excuses for his lackluster play and whenever Willy is brought up, not only do you downplay his abilities, you go as far as padding your valid points with a bunch of nonsense just to try and get extra jabs in at the guy.

 

I literally saw you downplay Willy's numbers in the pouring rain and criticize him for not being productive and then when someone pointed out that he was playing in a torrential downpour, you ignored it entirely.

Then the next day, when talking about Brohm's performance in the same game, you let him off the hook because of the weather even though it wasn't even raining when he played.

 

If that's not having an agenda, I don't know what is.

 

On top of that - I keep seeing you mention "exciting" ... is Ricky Ray not exciting? Because that's the mold Drew Willy fits into. Is he Ricky Ray? No, but he's getting there and that's the style of pro QB he is. I feel like you don't like Willy because he doesn't dance around and get you out of your seat. The most exciting thing to me is winning, I don't care how the guy gets there to do it and the truth is, Drew Willy can and will be a winning QB in this league when they give him the best possible chance to succeed (which will basically be when our OC stops making dogshit play calls)

 

I'd like to see Drew Willy succeed. But right now I believe he's over-rated, and probably not as good as you think. And so I disagree with you, partly because I think he has already been given every opportunity to succeed. Like I said, it'll be interesting to watch Winnipeg vs BC and Willy vs Lulay on Thursday. Tedford, an exQB, had them practicing a high-tempo offence right thru training camp. So far this season that is much more fun to watch than anything Bombers have come up with, designed, as I said, around the 3-step drop pocket style passer.

[Mike]

So far this season that is much more fun to watch than anything Bombers have come up with, designed, as I said, around the 3-step drop pocket style passer.

 

And yet, if we win Thursday, we'll be ahead of them in the standings so again I ask - what are you looking for? Get out of your seat excitement? Or winning?

[trueBlue83]

 I feel like you don't like Willy because he doesn't dance around and get you out of your seat. 

 

 

Agreed!  I don't know about you, but TD's get me out of my seat  .... Willy can throw deep, accurately, something we haven't had in years!

[Mike]

 

 I feel like you don't like Willy because he doesn't dance around and get you out of your seat. 

 

 

Agreed!  I don't know about you, but TD's get me out of my seat  .... Willy can throw deep, accurately, something we haven't had in years!

 

 

Yeah, I thought two of the three longest touchdowns in the league this year might be exciting but that's just me maybe.

[Mr Dee]

Wow, and here I thought Willy was performing even better than he was last year. You know, by reading the D better and reacting by throwing TDs, by running when he didn't last year, by throwing the ball away instead of getting sacked. You know, the little things that turn a good QB into a very good one..no matter what label you give him.

[max power]

I also thought it was periodically terrible defense, special teams, and backup QB play that caused our losses so far. Go figure.

 

Of course with this being the Bombers we're talking about I half expect Willy to become completely awful just in time for the D and Hajrullahu to figure it out.

[HardCoreBlue]

I also thought it was periodically terrible defense, special teams, and backup QB play that caused our losses so far. Go figure.

 

Of course with this being the Bombers we're talking about I half expect Willy to become completely awful just in time for the D and Hajrullahu to figure it out.

I've been on holidays for three weeks and been off the grid.

Has our offensive line played well enough to help our QB's and RB's be successful? If not, why isn't anyone crapping on the OL coach in harmony with our OC coach?

If it's a talent issue on the OL, does MB deserve any slack as a result of this?   

[17to85]

Drew Willy has been playing fantastically this season, just no question about it. The guy reads a defence well and hasn't been taking many risks with the ball. The only time things fall apart on him is when the OL breaks down and the OC gets into one of his fits where he forgets that running the ball is effective, but those things slow down any quarterback. He has been on the money this year for the most part, same can not be said for the defence and special teams though. 

 

Also Lulay, Collaros all those guys they may be able to run but the key that makes them successful is that they can also pass. They're dual threats. Willy has been able to run to extend some plays so I wouldn't say he's an immobile statue back there, but you don't NEED to be a runner to succeed in the CFL. Calvillo and Ray are proof positive of that, but if you can't pass in the CFL you're pretty useless as a qb. 

[17to85]

 

I also thought it was periodically terrible defense, special teams, and backup QB play that caused our losses so far. Go figure.

 

Of course with this being the Bombers we're talking about I half expect Willy to become completely awful just in time for the D and Hajrullahu to figure it out.

I've been on holidays for three weeks and been off the grid.

Has our offensive line played well enough to help our QB's and RB's be successful? If not, why isn't anyone crapping on the OL coach in harmony with our OC coach?

If it's a talent issue on the OL, does MB deserve any slack as a result of this?   

 

The OL has been up and down. I'd say they're OK for the most part but have a few break downs here and there. 

[Goalie]

OL has been pretty decent for the most part but they do have their break downs every now and then, seems to me that last game, Tyler was being picked on, he's a significant step down from Jace Daniels tho (who should be back this week) and the ESKS exploited him for sure. Greaves has struggled in 3 games, stood out in a bad way in 3 games but sounds like Neufeld might take his spot this week.

 

All in all an oline of Bryant,Neufeld,Picard,Chungh,Daniels should be pretty decent really. 

 

Little unimpressed with Picard this year tho, somebody said it in another thread, thought the best thing about signing him was his shotgun snaps but even those appear to be all over the place this year, Picard has been owned several times.. I'd be tempted to try Goossen for a game just to see if he doesn't get owned as much as Picard. 

[SPuDS]

Yea I'd agree on the oline.. Picard has not played well at all.. Constantly shoved back into QB and for what we are paying him, that happening consistently is unacceptable. His snaps have been very erratic as well..

Maybe we can find a trade partner for him lol. Goose learning on the fly might not be all that much worse then Picard at this point.