Election 2015

[Fraser]

I find it funny that tup still doesn't know that things left of the cons are relatively left to his position but not necessarily left of center.

[kelownabomberfan]

That manifesto is hilarious.  A bunch of idiot millionaires crying about capitalism.  David Suzuki is just such a giant hypocrite.  If he wants everyone to live in balance with earth's limits, maybe he could practice what he preaches and give up 3 of his 4 houses.

[The Unknown Poster]

I find it funny that tup still doesn't know that things left of the cons are relatively left to his position but not necessarily left of center.

I think it's funny that referring to left and right went over your head.

[The Unknown Poster]

That manifesto is hilarious. A bunch of idiot millionaires crying about capitalism. David Suzuki is just such a giant hypocrite. If he wants everyone to live in balance with earth's limits, maybe he could practice what he preaches and give up 3 of his 4 houses.

Oh come on. He's "center". Lol

[Fraser]

I find it funny that tup still doesn't know that things left of the cons are relatively left to his position but not necessarily left of center.

I think it's funny that referring to left and right went over your head.

Says the person who needs a diagram

[rebusrankin]

I don't agree with that manifesto and it is pretty far left. That said, not an NDP party document.

 

Want to criticize them, pick Fin Donnelly lying and not apologizing or their senior communications person tweeting some offensive comments and no apology. As an example.

[kelownabomberfan]

I don't agree with that manifesto and it is pretty far left. That said, not an NDP party document.

 

Want to criticize them, pick Fin Donnelly lying and not apologizing or their senior communications person tweeting some offensive comments and no apology. As an example.

 

Yeah I agree.  There's plenty to criticize the NDP about aside from these kinds of crazy NDP supporters stating outrageously stupid things.  A few weeks ago an NDP supporter from the self-proclaimed "NDP socialist caucus" was on Alberta radio stating that the government should just take over the oil sands with no compensation paid.  Just steal an asset that public companies have dumped billions of dollars into for absolutely nothing.  Do I think a lot of NDP supporters feel this is a smart move?  Probably.  But you can't judge the party based on what a bunch of lunatics who vote NDP think is right.  Angry Tom must just cringe whenever nuts like this open their mouths, as he is judged by what these people say, rightly or wrongly.

 

I just find it hilarious that a bunch of people who live in some weird universe with millions of dollars and houses all over the world want to force everyone else to live under some draconian communist system.  Rachel Mcadams jets back and forth between Toronto and LA all of the time, yet somehow she wants to limit the use of fossil fuels for everyone else?  Just massive hypocrites, all of these people.

[kelownabomberfan]

A spectre is haunting Thomas Mulcair, and on Tuesday it yelled “Boo!”

That spectre is and always has been voters’ wariness that the New Democratic Party, which Mr. Mulcair has jockeyed into contention in this election race, might not be the safe, just-barely-left-of-centre, budget-balancing party he makes it out to be, but is instead the radical, nationalize-the-banks camp of its not-so-distant past.

Just when Mr. Mulcair had that spectre locked in a closet, out it pops in the form of the Leap Manifesto, a revolutionary (but not in the good sense of the word) critique of capitalism from author Naomi Klein, signed by prominent NDP supporters, native-rights activists, movie stars and pop musicians, and endorsed by public-service unions with strong NDP links.

The manifesto calls for immediate social revolution in response to the threat of climate change. Its “demands” include “innovative ownership structures” as an alternative to “the profit-gouging of private companies,” and a “new iron law of energy development” that, if taken seriously, would pretty much put an end to every project ever – pipelines, windmills and solar-panel farms included. This iron law states, “If you wouldn’t want it in your backyard, then it doesn’t belong in anyone’s backyard.”

“We could live in a country powered entirely by truly just renewable energy, woven together by accessible public transit, in which the jobs and opportunities of this transition are designed to systematically eliminate racial and gender inequality,” the Manifesto says. “Caring for one another and caring for the planet could be the economy’s fastest-growing sectors.”

It also wants Canada to move to a “localized and ecologically-based agricultural system.” And rip up trade deals.

Beyond the dubious wisdom of combining signature words from the vocabularies of Marx and Mao in the title lies the fact that the Leap Manifesto’s supporters are undermining the efforts of the party that forms their natural constituency. Or maybe undermining the NDP for not being left-wing enough is the point.

We don’t think Mr. Mulcair endorses the manifesto’s madness. He is far more moderate than that. He is also a politician, and he wants to govern a country that is by its nature suspicious of radical social upheaval, especially when promulgated by rock stars.

Saddling him now, barely a month from the election, with the task of answering questions about a revolutionary utopian manifesto seems like an obvious case of failing to look before you… Well, you know the rest

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/leap-manifesto-gets-poor-marks-for-timing-and-content-otherwise-fine/article26373885/

 

I don't get why the public sector unions are attaching themselves to this.  These unions control the NDP, and by proxy, almost all NDP policy.  So while it's easy to excuse David Suzuki as just being a fat opportunistic hypocrite (which he is), it's not as easy for the public sector unions to slither out of this.  This looks really bad on the NDP.  And it could get a lot worse, if those unions don't back away from this lunacy, and fast.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

 

 

Per CBC poll tracker, Conservative party has 122 seats, NDP 113 seats, Liberal 102 seats, and Green 1 seat.

 

Major rebound for Harper.

Very interesting.  Did the opposition really expect a deficit this year even with the government repeatedly saying they were on track for a surplus?  Because it seems the Liberals especially cornered themselves on the economy by hammering Harper and essentially saying "well since we're in deficit, *we* are going to manage that deficit properly and invest in infrastructure" and now that the surplus was announced, it makes the government seem like the "good economy" government and the opposition like reckless spenders.

 

I think the lies over the dead refugee child are playing into this too.  Im somewhat perplexed at the Liberals rising so much.  is that left-ist voters swinging back and forth between Libs and NDP?  Might the ABC crowd all "choose" a party to park their vote?  And will one of the opposition play on that by saying "look, the only way to stop Harper is for those of you voting for the Liberals to vote for us NDP'ers instead" (or vice versa)?

 

Disagree. I don't think most people care about this nearly as much as you do. I think it's more likely most Canadians have either forgotten about it or don't even know who Fin Donnelly he is.

 

The bigger issue, imo, is that a lot of Canadians agree with Harper's stance that he doesn't want to just open the borders and let refugees flood in. People have been conditioned to be scared of people from that part of the world, so they don't want them in our country.

 

In this election with everyone being neck and neck in the polls, a little issue could be enough to sway many voters.  The lies over the dead refugee child may not be a big deal in the grand scheme of things as it affects our daily lives, but it make me angry enough to dismiss the NDP out of hand when I go to vote.  And I'm not going to forget come mid October.  It was unlikely the NDP was going to get my vote anyways thanks to Selinger and the rest of the provincial NDP, but I was willing to hear Mulcair out.  Not sure I will anymore.  

[The Unknown Poster]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Fraser" data-cid="152855" data-time="1442360160"><p><p>Reading your posts I know you're smarter than that. But it's sort of the anti Harper thing to do to act indignant when the opposition is getting some bad press. Take shots at theMessenger as if it's my faultYou're better than that.

[The Unknown Poster]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/leap-manifesto-plan-to-overthrow-capitalism-puts-spanner-in-ndp-plans-to-convince-centrist-voters

 

Some snippets:

 

 

Stephen Lewis put his signature to a plan to overthrow capitalism on Tuesday, and then told the media that it doesn’t necessarily mean that the centrist policies of Tom Mulcair aren’t good, too.

 

Lewis, former leader of the Ontario NDP and eulogist at the 2011 funeral of former NDP leader Jack Layton, is one of the backers of the Leap Manifesto, a proposal to upend Canada’s economy, society and government radically.

 

The document defines austerity as “a threat to life on earth.” It recommends abandoning the vast wheat fields of the Prairies in favour of “localized” organic farms.

 

Canada must implement a “universal basic annual income.” Any and all fossil fuel production must be forced out of business within a generation. “All trade deals” must be ended.

 

The manifesto is essentially a shortlist of everything NDP leader Tom Mulcair has been carefully avoiding in his bid to convince voters that social democrats aren’t nearly as scary as the Conservatives say they are.

 

But nobody appears to have told that to the dozens of prominent NDP supporters who signed the thing. Or Lewis, who publicly said that the document is essentially NDP policy.

 

“For the New Democrats, it’s an extension of the kinds of things they’ve been talking about,” he said.

[Mr Dee]

[The Unknown Poster]

^^^^ Now that's dedication!

[kelownabomberfan]

LOL - if I owned the field next door I would mow in "Or Mulcair!!"

 

Mulcair is sure taking it in the teeth over this Manifesto nonsense.  Mostly because he can't really say anything bad about it as a lot of the signatories are NDP flunkies, including the labour unions.  Could this Manifesto be the Iceberg that finally sinks the rat ship NDP?  I sure hope so.

[17to85]

Hey if people were terrified of the rights hidden agenda I expect the same results from the lefts hidden agenda. 

 

Honestly this election has been fascinating to watch. Polls up and down, parties rising and falling almost daily. Quite something. 

[The Unknown Poster]

@Kelowna @17

 

In agree.  I know some people have tried to say oh it's just some private people who wrote a goofy position paper.  But the anti-Harper crowd made the rules that associated individuals paint the party.  And this isnt like a bunch of completely unrelated folks.

 

Now, being a realist, I always say to people on ether side of the right/left spectrum that realistically, I dont think any party would "destroy the country" which is an accusation thrown at both sides.  A majority NDP government isnt going to bring Communism to Canada. 

 

I remember when Harper was running...even before Harper was leader actually, and I'd have conversations with friends who'd say they cant vote for the Cons because they will abolish abortion, bring back the death penalty, get rid of social safety net, put soldiers in the streets etc etc.  And no, they werent going to do that.

 

But this manifesto speaks to the NDP mind-set.  And its absolutely relevant.  And I chuckle at how the CBC wanted no part of mentioning it and if you peruse their website, they actually have an interview with someone (it was pretty far down the news stories) discussing it in really positive terms.  That *is* a media bias.

[Atomic]

Well the CBC at least has a reason to be biased as they work directly for the government and there's no question that the NDP or Liberals will be kinder to them than the Conservatives have. Not that I think the CBC really deserves better treatment from the government, just that they will get it from the NDP or Liberals and they know that.

[The Unknown Poster]

Well the CBC at least has a reason to be biased as they work directly for the government and there's no question that the NDP or Liberals will be kinder to them than the Conservatives have. Not that I think the CBC really deserves better treatment from the government, just that they will get it from the NDP or Liberals and they know that.

They should be a non-biased mainstream news service.  They are taxpayer funded and supposed to serve Canadians, not their own best interests by presenting bias coverage in favour of a national election.

[Goalie]

Cbc might be bias but so are most people posting in this thread. TUP.. dude you trying so hard to make everyone but the cons out to be so evil and awful. You showing your bias too. Politics.

[The Unknown Poster]

Cbc might be bias but so are most people posting in this thread. TUP.. dude you trying so hard to make everyone but the cons out to be so evil and awful. You showing your bias too. Politics.

I replied to this earlier.  We are all biased.  And I am absolutely not trying to make everyone else out to be evil.  If I come across the poll results or a news story, I post it.  The key things recently were the refugee issue and the manifesto.  I didnt make those things "anti-opposition" but they are important.  Especially because the latest poll saw the Cons on top, which really means little considering all three parties are in a statistical tie.

 

But I used to be an NDP supporter way back.  I voted Liberal several times.  I actually voted for the Cretien liberals and the Filmon PC's.  I turned away from the Liberals near the end of Cretien's time.  I voted for the Cons every since, federally.  And Im likely to again. 

 

So yeah, we're all biased.  So is every person here who defends the NDP and posts anti-conservative posts. 

 

The point is, the people trying to deflect the idea there is media bias when the national network went out of their way to avoid the manifesto story and then tried to spin it as a pretty sensible thing.

[Atomic]

If you recognize that everyone is biased then you should understand that the CBC is going to be biased as well, regardless of whether they are taxpayer funded or not. Just human nature.

[The Unknown Poster]

If you recognize that everyone is biased then you should understand that the CBC is going to be biased as well, regardless of whether they are taxpayer funded or not. Just human nature.

I wont discount the fact that most media is biased.  But there's a responsibility to report the bare minimum of news.  This isnt like Russia where they shoot down a jet and then pretend it didnt happen. 

 

The CBC is the worst offender because they are public, not private, and have such an obvious agenda.  Even if you're a left wing person, Im not sure anyone could argue the CBC serves a useful purpose.  I used to love re-runs of Kate & Ally as much as the next guy and Degrassi was awesome.  But really....

 

I think my point was that everyone is biased but the majority of mainstream news is left-slanted biased.  If they were all right biased, I'd be okay admitting that with a thumbs up.

[17to85]

Honestly no one is going to stray too far from the centre anyway. You know why? Because these people care about getting elected and you don't get elected by appealing to the fringes, you appeal to people by not rocking the boat and doing the same things we've been doing for ever. You try and get crazy people are going to vote you right out of office. It's why Harper had to muzzle all the loonies on the right and it's why Mulcair had to drag the wing nuts on the left kicking and screaming towards the middle. 

[Fraser]

 

If you recognize that everyone is biased then you should understand that the CBC is going to be biased as well, regardless of whether they are taxpayer funded or not. Just human nature.

I wont discount the fact that most media is biased.  But there's a responsibility to report the bare minimum of news.  This isnt like Russia where they shoot down a jet and then pretend it didnt happen. 

 

The CBC is the worst offender because they are public, not private, and have such an obvious agenda.  Even if you're a left wing person, Im not sure anyone could argue the CBC serves a useful purpose.  I used to love re-runs of Kate & Ally as much as the next guy and Degrassi was awesome.  But really....

 

I think my point was that everyone is biased but the majority of mainstream news is left-slanted biased.  If they were all right biased, I'd be okay admitting that with a thumbs up.

 

 

 

nah it's slanted to the center, you're slanted to the right.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

If you recognize that everyone is biased then you should understand that the CBC is going to be biased as well, regardless of whether they are taxpayer funded or not. Just human nature.

I wont discount the fact that most media is biased.  But there's a responsibility to report the bare minimum of news.  This isnt like Russia where they shoot down a jet and then pretend it didnt happen. 

 

The CBC is the worst offender because they are public, not private, and have such an obvious agenda.  Even if you're a left wing person, Im not sure anyone could argue the CBC serves a useful purpose.  I used to love re-runs of Kate & Ally as much as the next guy and Degrassi was awesome.  But really....

 

I think my point was that everyone is biased but the majority of mainstream news is left-slanted biased.  If they were all right biased, I'd be okay admitting that with a thumbs up.

 

 

 

nah it's slanted to the center, you're slanted to the right.

 

Not a chance! You're slanted waaaaay to the left if thats what you think.  Since, as 17 pointed out, Harper pulled the Cons closer to center, then the media would not be so Anti-Harper if they were center.  Certainly not as much as they are.  Like I said, not all media but most of it is left of center.