Shotgun?

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

There was only 24 secs left, might as well just pass, no need for the read option at that time. As JBR said, it was mass panic on and off the field, everyone just didn't look prepared for the scenario, becoming a common theme.

 

My guess is that they had the next play in to Marve if it was 3rd and longer than a couple yards or a first down, same play, before that 2nd down play.  Hard to really prepare for the scenario they ended up in with it being 3rd and almost 2 yards.  Harder with a very inexperienced QB who was obviously fighting pretty hard just to get through the game at that point.  The read option wouldn't be a bad call because you are isolating one defender and giving two of your better guys with the ball, Marve and Marshall a chance to get it done.  By that point it seemed to me that Marve's ability to throw more than about 7-8 yards vertically down the field was severely compromised.

 

 

Hard to prepare??? Maybe if your soft in the head but not for anyone on the staff of a professional football team it shouldn't be. And Marve wasn't having any trouble throwing more than 8 yards, he just completed a 19 yarder.

 

 

3rd and almost 2 when you're in hurry-up at 24 seconds is pretty unusual.  They had to switch out of the play they had called for either 3rd and long or 1st and 10.  Not easy for any QB to get organized, worse for a rookie.  You think they ran through that scenario in their one practice in a thunderstorm this week? 

[pigseye]

 

 

 

There was only 24 secs left, might as well just pass, no need for the read option at that time. As JBR said, it was mass panic on and off the field, everyone just didn't look prepared for the scenario, becoming a common theme.

 

My guess is that they had the next play in to Marve if it was 3rd and longer than a couple yards or a first down, same play, before that 2nd down play.  Hard to really prepare for the scenario they ended up in with it being 3rd and almost 2 yards.  Harder with a very inexperienced QB who was obviously fighting pretty hard just to get through the game at that point.  The read option wouldn't be a bad call because you are isolating one defender and giving two of your better guys with the ball, Marve and Marshall a chance to get it done.  By that point it seemed to me that Marve's ability to throw more than about 7-8 yards vertically down the field was severely compromised.

 

 

Hard to prepare??? Maybe if your soft in the head but not for anyone on the staff of a professional football team it shouldn't be. And Marve wasn't having any trouble throwing more than 8 yards, he just completed a 19 yarder.

 

 

3rd and almost 2 when you're in hurry-up at 24 seconds is pretty unusual.  They had to switch out of the play they had called for either 3rd and long or 1st and 10.  Not easy for any QB to get organized, worse for a rookie.  You think they ran through that scenario in their one practice in a thunderstorm this week? 

 

 

Exactly the point, why even put him the position to decide what to do? He's familiar with short yardage, so either run the short yardage or pass the ball, pretty simple.

[Mr Dee]

Strange that a play would happen like that in a year where 3rd down conversions are way down this year. And with veteran personnel. That bloody Marve, with the game on the line, having the bloody nerve, to not have the bloody nerve, to know what the hell to do in this situation. (I should have capitalized all that)

[pigseye]

How many starting QB's are on the shelf again........

[blueandgoldguy]

 

 

 

Barring a major and miraculous turnaround of the team, there is probably going to be a large-scale houscleaning at the end of the season...

Never ever have believed in houseclearing. That guarantees you will not make the playoffs the next season. You bring guys in and may the best talent win - except for the Canadian ratio thing where you don't have to be better.

 

Worked in Hamilton.  Cleaned house in 2012 with a 6-12 team including a first year coach and brought in Austin plus several others and the team went 10-8 and made it to the Grey Cup.  Went to the Grey Cup last year too.

 

Honestly, some people have these preconceived ideas of how they think things will work out without providing any evidence to back up these preconceptions.

 

I'm not saying the Bombers are due for a housecleaning just yet.  Let's see how the season plays out first.  No excuses for the team to not win at least one of their next three.  I think they have a shot at winning two of the next three personally.

 

 

It worked?  Really?  2nd place is the first loser.  

 

Just like Hamilton in 2013 and 2014, we lost Grey Cups in 1992, 1993, 2001, 2007 and 2011.   We don't celebrate those years.

 

Sarcasm?  I'll chalk it up to that.  FrostyWinnipeg falsely assumes that a housecleaning will automatically mean no playoffs the following season.  I rather easily dismissed his claim with my Hamilton example who by the way are smoking the Lions as we speak and will lead the East Division within a few short hours.  Try and follow along more carefully next time.  Maybe you missed your afternoon nap and aren't quite with it today?

[gbill2004]

Barring a major and miraculous turnaround of the team, there is probably going to be a large-scale houscleaning at the end of the season...

Never ever have believed in houseclearing. That guarantees you will not make the playoffs the next season. You bring guys in and may the best talent win - except for the Canadian ratio thing where you don't have to be better.

Worked in Hamilton. Cleaned house in 2012 with a 6-12 team including a first year coach and brought in Austin plus several others and the team went 10-8 and made it to the Grey Cup. Went to the Grey Cup last year too.

Honestly, some people have these preconceived ideas of how they think things will work out without providing any evidence to back up these preconceptions.

I'm not saying the Bombers are due for a housecleaning just yet. Let's see how the season plays out first. No excuses for the team to not win at least one of their next three. I think they have a shot at winning two of the next three personally.

It worked? Really? 2nd place is the first loser.

Just like Hamilton in 2013 and 2014, we lost Grey Cups in 1992, 1993, 2001, 2007 and 2011. We don't celebrate those years.

Sarcasm? I'll chalk it up to that. FrostyWinnipeg falsely assumes that a housecleaning will automatically mean no playoffs the following season. I rather easily dismissed his claim with my Hamilton example who by the way are smoking the Lions as we speak and will lead the East Division within a few short hours. Try and follow along more carefully next time. Maybe you missed your afternoon nap and aren't quite with it today?

I love afternoon naps. The best part of the weekend.

[Logan007]

Barring a major and miraculous turnaround of the team, there is probably going to be a large-scale houscleaning at the end of the season...

Never ever have believed in houseclearing. That guarantees you will not make the playoffs the next season. You bring guys in and may the best talent win - except for the Canadian ratio thing where you don't have to be better.

Worked in Hamilton. Cleaned house in 2012 with a 6-12 team including a first year coach and brought in Austin plus several others and the team went 10-8 and made it to the Grey Cup. Went to the Grey Cup last year too.

Honestly, some people have these preconceived ideas of how they think things will work out without providing any evidence to back up these preconceptions.

I'm not saying the Bombers are due for a housecleaning just yet. Let's see how the season plays out first. No excuses for the team to not win at least one of their next three. I think they have a shot at winning two of the next three personally.

It worked? Really? 2nd place is the first loser.

Just like Hamilton in 2013 and 2014, we lost Grey Cups in 1992, 1993, 2001, 2007 and 2011. We don't celebrate those years.

Sarcasm? I'll chalk it up to that. FrostyWinnipeg falsely assumes that a housecleaning will automatically mean no playoffs the following season. I rather easily dismissed his claim with my Hamilton example who by the way are smoking the Lions as we speak and will lead the East Division within a few short hours. Try and follow along more carefully next time. Maybe you missed your afternoon nap and aren't quite with it today?

I love afternoon naps. The best part of the weekend.

Reading this post helped me to begin my nap.

[Floyd]

Handing off to Marshall from the shotgun got 2-3 yards for most of that game...  Marie just screwed up on that last read, young QB...

 

Not sure why MB didn't field both Scott and Marshall on that last play though

[Bigblue204]

 

 

 

 

Barring a major and miraculous turnaround of the team, there is probably going to be a large-scale houscleaning at the end of the season...

Never ever have believed in houseclearing. That guarantees you will not make the playoffs the next season. You bring guys in and may the best talent win - except for the Canadian ratio thing where you don't have to be better.

 

Worked in Hamilton.  Cleaned house in 2012 with a 6-12 team including a first year coach and brought in Austin plus several others and the team went 10-8 and made it to the Grey Cup.  Went to the Grey Cup last year too.

 

Honestly, some people have these preconceived ideas of how they think things will work out without providing any evidence to back up these preconceptions.

 

I'm not saying the Bombers are due for a housecleaning just yet.  Let's see how the season plays out first.  No excuses for the team to not win at least one of their next three.  I think they have a shot at winning two of the next three personally.

 

 

It worked?  Really?  2nd place is the first loser.  

 

Just like Hamilton in 2013 and 2014, we lost Grey Cups in 1992, 1993, 2001, 2007 and 2011.   We don't celebrate those years.

 

Sarcasm?  I'll chalk it up to that.  FrostyWinnipeg falsely assumes that a housecleaning will automatically mean no playoffs the following season.  I rather easily dismissed his claim with my Hamilton example who by the way are smoking the Lions as we speak and will lead the East Division within a few short hours.  Try and follow along more carefully next time.  Maybe you missed your afternoon nap and aren't quite with it today?

 

 

Yes you provided one example of an overhaul "working" immediately (talking about how well hammy is doing this year is not relevant to the current convo...ie first year after house cleaning) but fail to recognize the dozens of examples (winnipeg providing many of them) where house cleaning does not work out well after the first year. Which I can only assume is much more common than teams turning it around and Winning the grey cup.

 

I don't want to clean house, just so we can get to 9-9 and an early playoff exit. I think O'shea and Walters can get us to the next level. It's just going to take at least one more if not 2 more years. Our assistant coaches could all be left out of the party though.

[mbrg]

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats: Proudly re-building since 1999.

[mbrg]

 

 

Barring a major and miraculous turnaround of the team, there is probably going to be a large-scale houscleaning at the end of the season...

Never ever have believed in houseclearing. That guarantees you will not make the playoffs the next season. You bring guys in and may the best talent win - except for the Canadian ratio thing where you don't have to be better.

 

Worked in Hamilton.  Cleaned house in 2012 with a 6-12 team including a first year coach and brought in Austin plus several others and the team went 10-8 and made it to the Grey Cup.  Went to the Grey Cup last year too.

 

Honestly, some people have these preconceived ideas of how they think things will work out without providing any evidence to back up these preconceptions.

 

I'm not saying the Bombers are due for a housecleaning just yet.  Let's see how the season plays out first.  No excuses for the team to not win at least one of their next three.  I think they have a shot at winning two of the next three personally.

 

 

Do they now?

 

Cleaning house worked like a charm in Hamilton.  Easy peazy lemon squeezy.  Bringing in Charlie Taffe was a huge success.

 

Oh wait, not that one?

 

Greg Marshall then.  Pretty sure they put a statue up for him after that hire.

 

George Cortez?

 

Marcel Bellefeuille?

 

Urban freaking Bowman?

 

John Gregory?

 

Don Sutherin?

 

 

Ah well, at least Kent Austin is nuts - one way or another, the saying that even a blind squirrel will occasionally find a nut will hold true.

[mbrg]

As for the play call, Marve had been setting that up all game by faking pulling the ball from Marshall on most of his runs (which I thought they could have done without, it was awkward and messing with Marshall's momentum).  If he had run it from under center it still would have failed.  The end not biting is the end not biting, regardless of where the QB started the play.

[GCn20]

Starting the play under centre gives it no chance to succeed, as Marve was supposed to check on whether the DE crashes to the middle or comes to the backfield. It was Marve's responsibility to choose the option based on what Foley did at the snap. His choice was grossly incorrect. It was not a bad play call...just very poorly executed. If he hands off to Marshall (based on the replay) we get about 3 yards. If Foley crashes to the middle, Marve goes for distance. However, as the ball is snapped Marve needed to make the right decision. Foley did not fake him out, Marve clearly panicked or just disregarded what his eyes should have been telling him.

[Floyd]

Starting the play under centre gives it no chance to succeed, as Marve was supposed to check on whether the DE crashes to the middle or comes to the backfield. It was Marve's responsibility to choose the option based on what Foley did at the snap. His choice was grossly incorrect. It was not a bad play call...just very poorly executed. If he hands off to Marshall (based on the replay) we get about 3 yards. If Foley crashes to the middle, Marve goes for distance. However, as the ball is snapped Marve needed to make the right decision. Foley did not fake him out, Marve clearly panicked or just disregarded what his eyes should have been telling him.

 

Agree with this... his last few plays you could see that nerves got the best of him.  After bye week and some real first team practice, hopefully this changes.

 

Still driving me nuts that we have Marshall and Scott and the ratio flexibility to use both of them and still don't...  no ones going to tell me that Pontbriand is a better blocker than Scott.

[GCn20]

Starting the play under centre gives it no chance to succeed, as Marve was supposed to check on whether the DE crashes to the middle or comes to the backfield. It was Marve's responsibility to choose the option based on what Foley did at the snap. His choice was grossly incorrect. It was not a bad play call...just very poorly executed. If he hands off to Marshall (based on the replay) we get about 3 yards. If Foley crashes to the middle, Marve goes for distance. However, as the ball is snapped Marve needed to make the right decision. Foley did not fake him out, Marve clearly panicked or just disregarded what his eyes should have been telling him.

 

Agree with this... his last few plays you could see that nerves got the best of him.  After bye week and some real first team practice, hopefully this changes.

 

Still driving me nuts that we have Marshall and Scott and the ratio flexibility to use both of them and still don't...  no ones going to tell me that Pontbriand is a better blocker than Scott.

To be expected in his first game. It may not have been the absolute best play call in the world, but it wasn't as bad as some people here are trying to make it sound. We have run out of this formation near the goal line all season with great success.

[TrueBlue]

20/20 hindsight.

[ddanger]

Guess clock runs when you snap the ball right? Or when ref whistles play in? Like 30 seconds left. Probably run off 5 8 seconds there with a sneak. I don't like the shotgun call but maybe they were gonna look for the pass but got pressured to quick. Marve might have made the wrong read there but still dumb formation

I've been told by someone who coaches football that it was a read option play, and that Marve did make the wrong read. But still.....why a shotgun snap play that has us starting so far behind the line?? That's more wrong than anything Marve did. We've all seen that shotgun play on third and short described on TV as the wrong call, because you've made it third and medium instead.

[ddanger]

Oh and a house-cleaning?? Didn't we do that this year and replace upwards of 20 guys?? Doing it again this upcoming off-season just slows us down IMO.

[Bigblue204]

 

Guess clock runs when you snap the ball right? Or when ref whistles play in? Like 30 seconds left. Probably run off 5 8 seconds there with a sneak. I don't like the shotgun call but maybe they were gonna look for the pass but got pressured to quick. Marve might have made the wrong read there but still dumb formation

I've been told by someone who coaches football that it was a read option play, and that Marve did make the wrong read. But still.....why a shotgun snap play that has us starting so far behind the line?? That's more wrong than anything Marve did. We've all seen that shotgun play on third and short described on TV as the wrong call, because you've made it third and medium instead.

 

 

It was a read option play. But with that amount of time left. I don't like the idea of giving a new starting QB an option....run it or throw it. AS in hand the ball off or drop back and toss it. No play action, no read option. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

Guess clock runs when you snap the ball right? Or when ref whistles play in? Like 30 seconds left. Probably run off 5 8 seconds there with a sneak. I don't like the shotgun call but maybe they were gonna look for the pass but got pressured to quick. Marve might have made the wrong read there but still dumb formation

I've been told by someone who coaches football that it was a read option play, and that Marve did make the wrong read. But still.....why a shotgun snap play that has us starting so far behind the line?? That's more wrong than anything Marve did. We've all seen that shotgun play on third and short described on TV as the wrong call, because you've made it third and medium instead.

 

 

It was a read option play. But with that amount of time left. I don't like the idea of giving a new starting QB an option....run it or throw it. AS in hand the ball off or drop back and toss it. No play action, no read option. 

 

 

The only thing that makes me hesitate calling a run play there is the amount of time left in the game.  Otherwise it's a fine call.  You need to give your QB options pretty much all the time, but particularly in those late game situations because defenses often guess as to what the offense will do based on their tendencies in that game and defend heavily against certain plays.  You also want to call a play that your QB is very comfortable with.  It was all kind of a scramble and who knows how it would have played out if Marve had more prep time that week.  Probably run a similar option play with a read on one or two receivers pre-snap to see how much cushion they are being given, allowing for a quick hitter to get the first down, or if there is press coverage allowing for a deep shot.  

[GCn20]

 

 

 

Guess clock runs when you snap the ball right? Or when ref whistles play in? Like 30 seconds left. Probably run off 5 8 seconds there with a sneak. I don't like the shotgun call but maybe they were gonna look for the pass but got pressured to quick. Marve might have made the wrong read there but still dumb formation

I've been told by someone who coaches football that it was a read option play, and that Marve did make the wrong read. But still.....why a shotgun snap play that has us starting so far behind the line?? That's more wrong than anything Marve did. We've all seen that shotgun play on third and short described on TV as the wrong call, because you've made it third and medium instead.

 

 

It was a read option play. But with that amount of time left. I don't like the idea of giving a new starting QB an option....run it or throw it. AS in hand the ball off or drop back and toss it. No play action, no read option. 

 

 

The only thing that makes me hesitate calling a run play there is the amount of time left in the game.  Otherwise it's a fine call.  You need to give your QB options pretty much all the time, but particularly in those late game situations because defenses often guess as to what the offense will do based on their tendencies in that game and defend heavily against certain plays.  You also want to call a play that your QB is very comfortable with.  It was all kind of a scramble and who knows how it would have played out if Marve had more prep time that week.  Probably run a similar option play with a read on one or two receivers pre-snap to see how much cushion they are being given, allowing for a quick hitter to get the first down, or if there is press coverage allowing for a deep shot.  

 

 

The reason for the playcall, as I see it was the following.

 

1. If the QB gets the edge there is a potential for big yardage. With 24 seconds left it was a short yardage play call with a chance of gaining a big chunk of yardage that was needed due to clock concerns.

2. It is one of our most utilized plays in Marve's short yardage package so he should have had familiarity with the playcall.

3. The Argos had been holding Marshall at bay for most of the 2nd half.

4. Marve has above average running ability.

5. If executed properly it is a high percentage play both ways.

[Bigblue204]

 

 

 

 

Guess clock runs when you snap the ball right? Or when ref whistles play in? Like 30 seconds left. Probably run off 5 8 seconds there with a sneak. I don't like the shotgun call but maybe they were gonna look for the pass but got pressured to quick. Marve might have made the wrong read there but still dumb formation

I've been told by someone who coaches football that it was a read option play, and that Marve did make the wrong read. But still.....why a shotgun snap play that has us starting so far behind the line?? That's more wrong than anything Marve did. We've all seen that shotgun play on third and short described on TV as the wrong call, because you've made it third and medium instead.

 

 

It was a read option play. But with that amount of time left. I don't like the idea of giving a new starting QB an option....run it or throw it. AS in hand the ball off or drop back and toss it. No play action, no read option. 

 

 

The only thing that makes me hesitate calling a run play there is the amount of time left in the game.  Otherwise it's a fine call.  You need to give your QB options pretty much all the time, but particularly in those late game situations because defenses often guess as to what the offense will do based on their tendencies in that game and defend heavily against certain plays.  You also want to call a play that your QB is very comfortable with.  It was all kind of a scramble and who knows how it would have played out if Marve had more prep time that week.  Probably run a similar option play with a read on one or two receivers pre-snap to see how much cushion they are being given, allowing for a quick hitter to get the first down, or if there is press coverage allowing for a deep shot.  

 

 

The reason for the playcall, as I see it was the following.

 

1. If the QB gets the edge there is a potential for big yardage. With 24 seconds left it was a short yardage play call with a chance of gaining a big chunk of yardage that was needed due to clock concerns.

2. It is one of our most utilized plays in Marve's short yardage package so he should have had familiarity with the playcall.

3. The Argos had been holding Marshall at bay for most of the 2nd half.

4. Marve has above average running ability.

5. If executed properly it is a high percentage play both ways.

 

 

While you make solid points about Marve being familar with that play and marshall being almost invisible the second half. You fail to to mention the fact that during every read option play in the second half, marve was getting hit. They never once let marve off the hook during those plays (in the 2nd half). Though often enough Marve was playing into the defender a bit to try and spring Marshall. But either way, they had someone spotting Marve while the D line took on Marshall.

 

I stand by my statement of a horrible play call.