3rd Down Nation: Bomber Thoughts: Tor vs Wpg

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

Very much agree with this article. Those 2 long-range field goals were fantastic, live those were the longest I've ever seen. Punting was great to except for the one many of us focus on. Didn't the one coffin-corner result in a safety??

Bass is turning into a great find, and currently needs to be considered in rookie of the year discussions.

We can't completely change our offensive schemes at this point, so I agree we are stuck with our OC. But if things don't change, he needs to be dismissed at the end of the season. We know teams are going to blitz us, deal with it. So many people blame the o'line, but when they blitz with 7 against our 5 guys, what are they supposed to do??

a. block the inside guys so that the rush has to come form the outside

b. roll the pocket left or right

c. hit the hot pass routes

d. draw play up the middle

e. buy the QB a condolence card after apologizing profusely

f. get another QB onto the field after carting the previous one off

 

 

This is what they are missing so often, and that's not scheme, that's basic.  Also when guys get plain beat there's nothing scheme can do.  They could run more screens, but our OL can't block anything right now.  Our RB's lead the league in yards after contact for a reason, and they don't even have a lot of yards.  Pretty much all of them are after contact, it's truly pathetic.  Walters needs to make a move on this bye to get a couple OL in, probably imports.

[Floyd]

 

 

Very much agree with this article. Those 2 long-range field goals were fantastic, live those were the longest I've ever seen. Punting was great to except for the one many of us focus on. Didn't the one coffin-corner result in a safety??

Bass is turning into a great find, and currently needs to be considered in rookie of the year discussions.

We can't completely change our offensive schemes at this point, so I agree we are stuck with our OC. But if things don't change, he needs to be dismissed at the end of the season. We know teams are going to blitz us, deal with it. So many people blame the o'line, but when they blitz with 7 against our 5 guys, what are they supposed to do??

a. block the inside guys so that the rush has to come form the outside

b. roll the pocket left or right

c. hit the hot pass routes

d. draw play up the middle

e. buy the QB a condolence card after apologizing profusely

f. get another QB onto the field after carting the previous one off

 

 

This is what they are missing so often, and that's not scheme, that's basic.  Also when guys get plain beat there's nothing scheme can do.  They could run more screens, but our OL can't block anything right now.  Our RB's lead the league in yards after contact for a reason, and they don't even have a lot of yards.  Pretty much all of them are after contact, it's truly pathetic.  Walters needs to make a move on this bye to get a couple OL in, probably imports.

 

 

I agree with most of this but you can't ignore the fact that MB empties the backfield a lot.  Add to this fact that other teams realize that bombers don't run screens very often and that's a perfect storm.  A new OL probably won't change that...

 

Again, that being said, I'd bring in an import Centre and put Picard on notice.  And another import LB for PR.  Pick up one of the vet DL that are sitting at home too.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

 

Very much agree with this article. Those 2 long-range field goals were fantastic, live those were the longest I've ever seen. Punting was great to except for the one many of us focus on. Didn't the one coffin-corner result in a safety??

Bass is turning into a great find, and currently needs to be considered in rookie of the year discussions.

We can't completely change our offensive schemes at this point, so I agree we are stuck with our OC. But if things don't change, he needs to be dismissed at the end of the season. We know teams are going to blitz us, deal with it. So many people blame the o'line, but when they blitz with 7 against our 5 guys, what are they supposed to do??

a. block the inside guys so that the rush has to come form the outside

b. roll the pocket left or right

c. hit the hot pass routes

d. draw play up the middle

e. buy the QB a condolence card after apologizing profusely

f. get another QB onto the field after carting the previous one off

 

 

This is what they are missing so often, and that's not scheme, that's basic.  Also when guys get plain beat there's nothing scheme can do.  They could run more screens, but our OL can't block anything right now.  Our RB's lead the league in yards after contact for a reason, and they don't even have a lot of yards.  Pretty much all of them are after contact, it's truly pathetic.  Walters needs to make a move on this bye to get a couple OL in, probably imports.

 

 

I agree with most of this but you can't ignore the fact that MB empties the backfield a lot.  Add to this fact that other teams realize that bombers don't run screens very often and that's a perfect storm.  A new OL probably won't change that...

 

Again, that being said, I'd bring in an import Centre and put Picard on notice.  And another import LB for PR.  Pick up one of the vet DL that are sitting at home too.

 

 

It all depends on what they are facing.  Hamilton puts 7-8 guys on the line of scrimmage pretty much all the time.  They usually rush between 3 and 5, but you don't know which ones are coming and which ones are dropping into coverage.  So you have guys dropping into short zones from the line of scrimmage.  Trying to run screen game against that would be counter productive and likely lead to turnovers.  Edmonton is pretty similar.  You gotta get the ball on the outside or down the field very fast.  Against everyone else the screens to the running backs have been plentiful, it's too bad Cotton's dropped about 6 of them.

 

Having extra blockers only helps if everyone executes their assignments.  You could have 9 guys lined up to block and if Picard and Neufeld miscommunicate or get flat out beat it won't matter.  Maybe they can line up Pontbriand and Cronk behind both guards to at least provide some difficulty to opposing DT's.

[Floyd]

Please not Cronk and Pontbriand on the field together...  Maybe Marshall and Scott so we at least have a dump pass threat

 

I'm not promoting screen and only screen... its been years now of waiting for Barresi then Lapo and now MB to run the ball outside on a fairly consistent basis - Crowton did it a bit but the talent was just not there

 

I do feel bad for both Bellefuile and Crowton because Grigsby never really 'got' the rub block and used to just let his man speed past him - MB called way more of 'his style' of game then but Grigsby either didn't block or didn't catch

 

With Marve moving the pocket now - whether MB wants him to or not... - there will be a lot more opportunities for successful screens, shovel passes or pitches...  MB needs to get aggressive, he can be a good OC when he's not scared.

[Doublezero]

If the ball is on the left hash, misdirect left, QB keeps or hands, using FB to overload and seal the DE and SAM and sweep hard to the strong side.

Guaranteed 5 yards.

When the head linesman places the ball on the right hash, same play in the opposite direction - always to the the distant or wide side of the field.

When the head linesman places the ball on the left hash, repeat right. Then left. Right. Left. Right etc.

On every play misdirection, followed by sealing the DE and LB is key.

Run it with no huddle to tire and discourage the D. Because the field is 65 yards wide, and because it's a footrace around the wide edge this play is almost always good for at least 5 yards.

Eventually you will score a TD by running repeated sweeps in alternate directions, but always to the wide side of the field. I can never understand why anyone would run a short side sweep in Canadian football.

[JuranBoldenRules]

If the ball is on the left hash, misdirect left, QB keeps or hands, using FB to overload and seal the DE and SAM and sweep hard to the strong side.

Guaranteed 5 yards.

When the head linesman places the ball on the right hash, same play in the opposite direction - always to the the distant or wide side of the field.

When the head linesman places the ball on the left hash, repeat right. Then left. Right. Left. Right etc.

On every play misdirection, followed by sealing the DE and LB is key.

Run it with no huddle to tire and discourage the D. Because the field is 65 yards wide, and because it's a footrace around the wide edge this play is almost always good for at least 5 yards.

Eventually you will score a TD by running repeated sweeps in alternate directions, but always to the wide side of the field. I can never understand why anyone would run a short side sweep in Canadian football.

 

Because the defense mirrors the offense, the defense adjusts their gaps and coverages.  Nobody is going to let you overload one side.  That play might have worked that easy in the days before gap control, but now you'd need someone to make a mistake every down to get 5 yards.

[Floyd]

Re-watched the offence...  MB calls a great game in the first half, like seriously awesome...  then retreats to run up the middle/slants to moore for the 3rd, recovers a bit in the fourth but its too late.

 

In the last two series, Marshall slips open for the dump pass but Marve is looking for the long bomb - OShea needed to call a timeout or something to calm him down.  Not sure if Marve was freewheeling by that point, but Osh and MB look kind of irritated.

 

Whole OL had good and bad moments...  I'd say that Sukh Chungh has gotten an unfair pass this year - he's not that great.  Now I wonder if Picard is helping him out a bit too much during the games...?

 

When MB gets conservative after half time, this allows teams to start sending everyone... and this throws his QB off his game.  Happens game after game, year after year...  

[17to85]

If the ball is on the left hash, misdirect left, QB keeps or hands, using FB to overload and seal the DE and SAM and sweep hard to the strong side.

Guaranteed 5 yards.

When the head linesman places the ball on the right hash, same play in the opposite direction - always to the the distant or wide side of the field.

When the head linesman places the ball on the left hash, repeat right. Then left. Right. Left. Right etc.

On every play misdirection, followed by sealing the DE and LB is key.

Run it with no huddle to tire and discourage the D. Because the field is 65 yards wide, and because it's a footrace around the wide edge this play is almost always good for at least 5 yards.

Eventually you will score a TD by running repeated sweeps in alternate directions, but always to the wide side of the field. I can never understand why anyone would run a short side sweep in Canadian football.

if there was a play for guaranteed 5 yards you think that offensive coordinators wouldn't call it all the time? And you think defensive coordinators wouldn't find a way to defend it? Come on, these guys good or bad spend way more time looking at all sorts of film and what not than any fan does. It's always a give and take. offense does something that works, D learns how to take it away. The key is to make better and quicker adjustments than your opponents. 

[Mark F]

I'd go with 65 toss power trap.

[Floyd]

Apparently, Doug Brown had the same thoughts...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/Vanilla-playcalling-took-the-flavour-out-of-Mavres-multi-faceted-attack-322063472.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Tracker]

Apparently, Doug Brown had the same thoughts...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/Vanilla-playcalling-took-the-flavour-out-of-Mavres-multi-faceted-attack-322063472.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Can you do a C&P for the rest of us?

[Floyd]

 

Apparently, Doug Brown had the same thoughts...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/Vanilla-playcalling-took-the-flavour-out-of-Mavres-multi-faceted-attack-322063472.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Can you do a C&P for the rest of us?

 

 

1st half good, second half vanilla, MB needs to get his head out of his ass before they ruin Marve.

[iso_55]

I'd go with 65 toss power trap.

Whatever happened to the toss play getting the back to the outside fast?

[Mr Dee]

I'm not going to agree so much on what Brown has opined. You can argue the play calling, cause that happens all the time. But you still can't argue how much of the play book Marve has practiced. He did well with what he had, and I believe MB guided him pretty well. Marve missed a lot, but that's the newness of starting. And how much did his throwing hand injury affect his grip and feel on his throwing hand?...pain killers be damned.

As far as the last play goes, that's an armchair QBs' dream, as in "you should have did this or you should have done that." If it works, you're gold, if it doesn't you're blue. In this case, the opinion is Brown's.

Mistake Marve - and credit Foley.

[JuranBoldenRules]

I'm not going to agree so much on what Brown has opined. You can argue the play calling, cause that happens all the time. But you still can't argue how much of the play book Marve has practiced. He did well with what he had, and I believe MB guided him pretty well. Marve missed a lot, but that's the newness of starting. And how much did his throwing hand injury affect his grip and feel on his throwing hand?...pain killers be damned.

As far as the last play goes, that's an armchair QBs' dream, as in "you should have did this or you should have done that." If it works, you're gold, if it doesn't you're blue. In this case, the opinion is Brown's.

Mistake Marve - and credit Foley.

 

I don't get his point.  The offense never really drove the ball after the first drive, that one was keyed by Marve scrambling.  The TD was a 55 yard RB screen pass, just about the most vanilla play in the book.  I never saw anything but "vanilla," and that's probably mostly due to Marve's comfort.  He's not going to stay in the pocket and move through his reads like Willy does when he gets the chance from his OL.  That means your intermediate and deep passing game is going to be almost non-existent.  I guess putting him in a situation where he would almost surely fail is the better way?

[Mr Dee]

Brown, having seen this situation up close, many more times than us, should know better. The game was there to be won with just the help that Marve was getting from the likes of the RBs, the place kicker, the short controlled passing game and solid defence.

Eliminate 2 mistakes, that were out of Marve's control anyway, and we're not even talking about that last play call.

What else could you possibly expect for that situation that Marve was put in?

[Floyd]

Its not the plays that are necessarily vanilla... its the playcalling - the variety of looks and plays in the first half kept Toronto at bay, then the first plays in the 3rd were run up the middle and then three passes to Moore...  much more pocket passing, no outside runs

 

I have to say though Marve looked a lot like Elliott when he was trying to force the long ball late in the game...  without Moore, its a game-ending interception that we're all talking about and not MB