If I were Wade miller I would...

[Blueandgold]

With how bad BC & Sask are, anything less than the playoffs is worthy of termination for O'Shea.

[gbill2004]

If I were Wade miller I would...

get an O-line to protect the qb.

We have a good O-line. We need an OC.

No we don't. Our OL is the worst (again) in the CFL.

100% false. We have a very good OL. The schemes are terrible for a pocket passer like Willy.

What team have you been watching? You actually think we have a "very good OL"??? It's just schemes?

Yes. When Willy stands in the pocket for 4+ seconds routinely and still hasn't released the ball, and when the pocket still rarely moves, that's mostly schemes and the QB. Not on the OL talent. And I still don't consistently see an outlet for the QB when protection breaks down.

[Tracker]

As a counterpoint, there have been times when Willy still hangs onto the ball too long, but I would bet for every time that happens there are several times when the opposing defence pours in on top of him because the blockers have picked the wrong block or just flat-out whiffed. For those of us who have no coaching expereince, its darned hard to pick out if this is because of poor O-line communication, crappy technique, lack of talent or what. But something has to change and soon or we will be playing rotating QBs all season.

[DR. CFL]

You don't need to be Bob Willy to watch a replay of a linemen "attempting" to block someone one on one and see him whiff, get turnstiled , flat out get beat to recognize he has missed a block and put his QB at risk. Does Willey hold the ball too long at times, yes. Does he have a quick ball release, no. But as our friend MOS says.....watch the video.

[Logan007]

Bob Wylie...Drew Willy.  Just saying.

[DR. CFL]

Potatoe....potato ... U get the drift.

[Guest J5V]

The spot light should be on Walters and his scouts, McMannus, Goveia and Morris, those are the guys that need to bring in the talent. This is just their first full year at it so we should have a better read on things by seasons end and whether or not they are getting it done. The current roster just isn't good enough or deep enough so that is where the improvement has to start. Once you've built a contender, then it falls on the coaching staff to make the difference but not right now.

Time count violations, poor in-game decisions, not preparing the team properly, not making proper adjustments, not being creative, not properly addressing problem areas, playing guys that should sit, sitting guys that should play, sticking with poor personnel as coaches and players because they are your pals and/or you're too stubborn, etc, is going to cost you wins whether you have a group of talented players or not.

 

A good coach can produce wins for a team by out-coaching the other team and preparing his team properly which includes things like discipline and focus. Then there are the intangibles like imparting heart, a never-say-die attitude and a strong will to win. I'm not seeing any of this from Mike O'Shea and his coaching staff. I do see it in varying degrees from other coaches in the league however.

[Guest J5V]

 

Have gone for broke this season and instructed Walters to put the rebuild on hold for a season to focus on winning a Grey Cup by pulling a Taman and doing everything in his power to land a  veteran starting qb such as Ricky Ray and  trading for veterans or signing as many veteran free agents as possible. The fact they stayed the course and are now likely to finish under .500 and out of the playoffs again does not bode well for Grey Cup ticket sales or the psyche of this fan base that will hve every reason to lose it should they miss the post season again.

 

I like what Marve brings to the table but can't help and wonder how nice it would be to have Ricky Ray in the line up after labour day for the run to the playoffs. It may not be too late if the Blue can eek out a couple wins against SASK plus RR would fit well into an offensive system that lacksa deep threat.

 

Thoughts? Opinions??

 

 

Sask is 0 - 8. B.C. is in turmoil and has the same record as us. Ottawa reminds me a LOT of us last year, great start but the real team is starting to emerge and IMO will not win more than two more games the rest of the way. Montreal is also in turmoil now that they have dumped Higgins and Popp has taken over, yet again. 

 

I wouldn't go so far to say we are 'out of the playoffs' and I really don't think a 'Ricky Ray' would help us at all. 

 

Lets just take a collective breath. Drew Willy is developing just fine. Look at what Collaros did after getting a concussion last year? Those six weeks off did him good and he's now the best QB in the league. Robert Marve is/will be fine as a temporary starter. If anything we should bring someone in to replace Brohm.

 

And btw - when injuries like this (to your starting QB) happen, it will make a decent team stronger and accelerate the growth of the team. a year from now we might be saying Willy's injury was the best thing to ever happen to the Bombers in recent years. 

 

I really don't like these 'doom and gloom' threads. If you gave up the ghost every time your starter got hurt - the bombers of two years ago under Burke and Mack will start to look like a good team. 

 

Isn't that exactly what this Mike-O'Shea-lead-team did against Hamilton and Edmonton earlier this year when Willy got hurt? Gave up the ghost? 

[KptKrunch]

 

The spot light should be on Walters and his scouts, McMannus, Goveia and Morris, those are the guys that need to bring in the talent. This is just their first full year at it so we should have a better read on things by seasons end and whether or not they are getting it done. The current roster just isn't good enough or deep enough so that is where the improvement has to start. Once you've built a contender, then it falls on the coaching staff to make the difference but not right now.

Time count violations, poor in-game decisions, not preparing the team properly, not making proper adjustments, not being creative, not properly addressing problem areas, playing guys that should sit, sitting guys that should play, sticking with poor personnel as coaches and players because they are your pals and/or you're too stubborn, etc, is going to cost you wins whether you have a group of talented players or not.

 

A good coach can produce wins for a team by out-coaching the other team and preparing his team properly which includes things like discipline and focus. Then there are the intangibles like imparting heart, a never-say-die attitude and a strong will to win. I'm not seeing any of this from Mike O'Shea and his coaching staff. I do see it in varying degrees from other coaches in the league however.

 

 

Well, I for one could not understand O'Shea's love affair with the MLB from Toronto who, though he hit hard, was slow, out of position on a lot of plays, and tried to make up for all that by hitting late. I remember that one game he had not one, not two, but THREE unnecessary roughing penalties. All were legit too, not one of those calls were borderline. And MOS still kept playing him and defended it after the game. Kuale was a joke but all coaches have those players.

 

I guess the problem I have with people wanting O'Shea gone is that you may get the next Tim Burke or Jeff Reindolt in his place. O'Shea isn't perfect but he's learning and I'm sure he'll get better. Like it or not, we get a coach that's too good, then like the players, they won't be around long anyway. See Mike Riley and Mark Trestman. Dave Dickenson would be the only guy I'd consider but he's not leaving Calgary. He's going to be the next HC in Calgary. 

[Tracker]

 

 

The spot light should be on Walters and his scouts, McMannus, Goveia and Morris, those are the guys that need to bring in the talent. This is just their first full year at it so we should have a better read on things by seasons end and whether or not they are getting it done. The current roster just isn't good enough or deep enough so that is where the improvement has to start. Once you've built a contender, then it falls on the coaching staff to make the difference but not right now.

Time count violations, poor in-game decisions, not preparing the team properly, not making proper adjustments, not being creative, not properly addressing problem areas, playing guys that should sit, sitting guys that should play, sticking with poor personnel as coaches and players because they are your pals and/or you're too stubborn, etc, is going to cost you wins whether you have a group of talented players or not.

 

A good coach can produce wins for a team by out-coaching the other team and preparing his team properly which includes things like discipline and focus. Then there are the intangibles like imparting heart, a never-say-die attitude and a strong will to win. I'm not seeing any of this from Mike O'Shea and his coaching staff. I do see it in varying degrees from other coaches in the league however.

 

 

Well, I for one could not understand O'Shea's love affair with the MLB from Toronto who, though he hit hard, was slow, out of position on a lot of plays, and tried to make up for all that by hitting late. I remember that one game he had not one, not two, but THREE unnecessary roughing penalties. All were legit too, not one of those calls were borderline. And MOS still kept playing him and defended it after the game. Kuale was a joke but all coaches have those players.

 

I guess the problem I have with people wanting O'Shea gone is that you may get the next Tim Burke or Jeff Reindolt in his place. O'Shea isn't perfect but he's learning and I'm sure he'll get better. Like it or not, we get a coach that's too good, then like the players, they won't be around long anyway. See Mike Riley and Mark Trestman. Dave Dickenson would be the only guy I'd consider but he's not leaving Calgary. He's going to be the next HC in Calgary. 

 

I would like to see evidence of O'Shea's learning, particularly with special teams and putting the best, not his most favourite players on the field. Like it or not, O'Shea's choice of assistant coaches has to be part of his evaluation for fitness as head coach, and the struggles of special teams, O-line and offence as a whole lays largely on his shoulders.

[Mr Dee]

Perfarful.

Ridiculous to consider firing MOS.

That's precisely how we get in these situations. Hire and fire. Without concern to how the future looks with this roster in place. You have to give him the year..at least.

We get in this situation not because we fire guys every couple of years, but because we hire the wrong guys every couple of years. It's make the playoffs or look for another HC at the end of this year and making the playoffs isn't looking probable right now.

What you're saying is that there are 8 teams every year who have hired the wrong guy.

And how the hell do you know you're hiring the wrong guy? Oh, that's right, according to you, we have to hire an experienced Coach. Or a re-cycled coach. But if they're any good, wouldn't they be employed?

And isn't every HC who is hired, new at some point?

Yes, sometimes we hire the wrong guy...hello Mr. Burke. But we do fire way too soon also...hello Mr. LaPolice. Just when it looked like LaPo was beginning to figure it out, we had to fire him, because, you know, he was new, and we haven't won in so long....well, you know how it is.

Hire and fire...that's what we do.

Perfarful.

[Goalie]

People talk about hiring an experienced coach... but what i'd like to honestly know is... which ones are out there? Higgins? No Thanks... Benevides? Is he really any better than MOS? 

 

That's about it, Guys under 65 at least... I don't see any legit experienced coaches being available...

 

It's funny really cuz Milo ain't coming, C Jones ain't coming, Austin ain't coming, Huff ain't coming...

 

Who are these experienced coaches people think exist?

 

Honestly, If i'm a team who fires a coach in the off-season... I'm not talking to experienced coaches, I'm talking to Steinhauer and Noel Thorpe first. 

[TBURGESS]

 

 

Perfarful.

Ridiculous to consider firing MOS.

That's precisely how we get in these situations. Hire and fire. Without concern to how the future looks with this roster in place. You have to give him the year..at least.

We get in this situation not because we fire guys every couple of years, but because we hire the wrong guys every couple of years. It's make the playoffs or look for another HC at the end of this year and making the playoffs isn't looking probable right now.

What you're saying is that there are 8 teams every year who have hired the wrong guy.

And how the hell do you know you're hiring the wrong guy? Oh, that's right, according to you, we have to hire an experienced Coach. Or a re-cycled coach. But if they're any good, wouldn't they be employed?

And isn't every HC who is hired, new at some point?

Yes, sometimes we hire the wrong guy...hello Mr. Burke. But we do fire way too soon also...hello Mr. LaPolice. Just when it looked like LaPo was beginning to figure it out, we had to fire him, because, you know, he was new, and we haven't won in so long....well, you know how it is.

Hire and fire...that's what we do.

Perfarful.

 

No. I'm not saying that 8 teams every year hire the wrong guy. The 3 teams who don't make the playoffs probably have though.

 

Every HC was new at some point, but we've only hired one newbie since 1997 that has a winning record and we fired him to bring in Mike Freak'n Kelly. That's probably the only time we fired an HC too soon though. A valid argument could be made that we fired Richie too soon back in '04. You wanted more of Burke or PLAP or Kelly or Daley or Hoffman or Reinbold? I guess you have a stronger stomach for losing than I do.

[Goalie]

I'll say this... and leave it be... With Willy i think we are better than we were last year.. I think 7-11 probably becomes 9-9 at the least.... maybe better.. Without, I don't know really... It's tough to say. That's progress but without, I dunno, I think you need to bring MOS back next year, maybe change the OC tho and see what happens with a healthy Drew Willy and a better OC than MB. 

 

The worst case scenario in my opinion is we fire MOS and MB is named coach... That scares the crap out of me and I think you need to fire MB first and see what we look like under a different OC and a healthy Drew Willy. 

[DR. CFL]

A little too early to hand MOS the keys for next year. Still a number of questions to be answered on the 2015 report card.

[Mr Dee]

No. I'm not saying that 8 teams every year hire the wrong guy.

You wanted more of Burke or PLAP or Kelly or Daley or Hoffman or Reinbold? I guess you have a stronger stomach for losing than I do.

But the other 4 teams didn't win the Cup...so they failed..right?

What about two years, not winning the cup? Firing offence?

And, if you'll notice I did say wrong guy - Burke and LaPo - too soon fired.

Those are the only two I mentioned.

They are, at least, in the recent past.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

If I were Wade miller I would...

get an O-line to protect the qb.

We have a good O-line. We need an OC.

No we don't. Our OL is the worst (again) in the CFL.

100% false. We have a very good OL. The schemes are terrible for a pocket passer like Willy.

What team have you been watching? You actually think we have a "very good OL"??? It's just schemes?

Yes. When Willy stands in the pocket for 4+ seconds routinely and still hasn't released the ball, and when the pocket still rarely moves, that's mostly schemes and the QB. Not on the OL talent. And I still don't consistently see an outlet for the QB when protection breaks down.

 

C'mon gbill. The OL is terrible.You can try to spin things any way you want but the line isn't anywhere near good enough compared to other teams. 

[TBURGESS]

 

No. I'm not saying that 8 teams every year hire the wrong guy.

You wanted more of Burke or PLAP or Kelly or Daley or Hoffman or Reinbold? I guess you have a stronger stomach for losing than I do.

But the other 4 teams didn't win the Cup...so they failed..right?

What about two years, not winning the cup? Firing offence?

And, if you'll notice I did say wrong guy - Burke and LaPo - too soon fired.

Those are the only two I mentioned.

They are, at least, in the recent past.

 

Nope, the other 4 teams didn't fail. They just didn't win it all. You argument that everyone who doesn't win the Grey Cup are the same is dumb even for you. I'm talking about not making the playoffs and losing more games than you win. Both are hallmarks of bad coaching, bad players or a combo of both. 

[Goalie]

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I were Wade miller I would...

get an O-line to protect the qb.

We have a good O-line. We need an OC.

No we don't. Our OL is the worst (again) in the CFL.

100% false. We have a very good OL. The schemes are terrible for a pocket passer like Willy.

What team have you been watching? You actually think we have a "very good OL"??? It's just schemes?

Yes. When Willy stands in the pocket for 4+ seconds routinely and still hasn't released the ball, and when the pocket still rarely moves, that's mostly schemes and the QB. Not on the OL talent. And I still don't consistently see an outlet for the QB when protection breaks down.

 

C'mon gbill. The OL is terrible.You can try to spin things any way you want but the line isn't anywhere near good enough compared to other teams. 

 

I believe someone timed the sacks, the only time a sack came close to 4 seconds was when Brohm was in the game, he was sacked at 3.9 seconds, Willy tho, Willy's average sack time against hamilton was about 2 seconds so yeah Gbill is slightly off there... The average amount of time it takes to sack Willy this year is something like 2.2 2.5 seconds.. That's on the oline and more so the center cuz most times those sacks that happened that quickly, well Picard was beat out his shorts really. 

[Mr Dee]

No. I'm not saying that 8 teams every year hire the wrong guy.

You wanted more of Burke or PLAP or Kelly or Daley or Hoffman or Reinbold? I guess you have a stronger stomach for losing than I do.

But the other 4 teams didn't win the Cup...so they failed..right?

What about two years, not winning the cup? Firing offence?

And, if you'll notice I did say wrong guy - Burke and LaPo - too soon fired.

Those are the only two I mentioned.

They are, at least, in the recent past.

Nope, the other 4 teams didn't fail. They just didn't win it all. You argument that everyone who doesn't win the Grey Cup are the same is dumb even for you. I'm talking about not making the playoffs and losing more games than you win. Both are hallmarks of bad coaching, bad players or a combo of both.

No, your talking about hiring inexperienced coaches, when in reality, all teams do it. And if you're talking about dumb things to say, how about what you said about the Bombers hiring the wrong coaches every couple of years? Show me the book where they list the good and bad coaches, because you seem to have the only copy.

[gbill2004]

If I were Wade miller I would...

get an O-line to protect the qb.

We have a good O-line. We need an OC.

No we don't. Our OL is the worst (again) in the CFL.

100% false. We have a very good OL. The schemes are terrible for a pocket passer like Willy.

What team have you been watching? You actually think we have a "very good OL"??? It's just schemes?

Yes. When Willy stands in the pocket for 4+ seconds routinely and still hasn't released the ball, and when the pocket still rarely moves, that's mostly schemes and the QB. Not on the OL talent. And I still don't consistently see an outlet for the QB when protection breaks down.

C'mon gbill. The OL is terrible.You can try to spin things any way you want but the line isn't anywhere near good enough compared to other teams.

Sorry I'm not spinning anything. This OL can be dominant. They're not being put in situations to succeed.

[gbill2004]

If I were Wade miller I would...

get an O-line to protect the qb.

We have a good O-line. We need an OC.

No we don't. Our OL is the worst (again) in the CFL.

100% false. We have a very good OL. The schemes are terrible for a pocket passer like Willy.

What team have you been watching? You actually think we have a "very good OL"??? It's just schemes?

Yes. When Willy stands in the pocket for 4+ seconds routinely and still hasn't released the ball, and when the pocket still rarely moves, that's mostly schemes and the QB. Not on the OL talent. And I still don't consistently see an outlet for the QB when protection breaks down.

C'mon gbill. The OL is terrible.You can try to spin things any way you want but the line isn't anywhere near good enough compared to other teams.

I believe someone timed the sacks, the only time a sack came close to 4 seconds was when Brohm was in the game, he was sacked at 3.9 seconds, Willy tho, Willy's average sack time against hamilton was about 2 seconds so yeah Gbill is slightly off there... The average amount of time it takes to sack Willy this year is something like 2.2 2.5 seconds.. That's on the oline and more so the center cuz most times those sacks that happened that quickly, well Picard was beat out his shorts really.

I'd like to see these stats, because the games I've watched, Willy has a lot more than 2.5 seconds of protection on his throws. And just timing the protection of sacks gives zero indication of the talent on an OL. Total average protection would be a better indicator.

[iso_55]

The OL can be dominant. I agree. Dominantly bad.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Greaves, Neufeld and Picard don't have the capability to be 'dominant' as individuals, never have, never will.  Bryant and Chungh better play real well to form a 'dominant' OL with those guys.  I think 'adequate' would be setting the bar fairly high for this crew.

[Goalie]

At times the OL is dominant... but most times, they aren't.... We have a very good tackle in Bryant, we have a good young rookie that is learning in Chungh... We have 2 pieces right now,  We had 3 as i thought Jace Daniels was a damn good tackle too but he's hurt now so really... You got Bryant, You got a rookie and with the rookie you will get good and bad, to be expected, he will get better tho but then we have 3 spots that are below average. 

 

5 oline guys... 1 is very good, 1 is a rookie.. 3 aren't so good.