August 23 practice report

[iso_55]

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

 

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

[sweep the leg]

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

 

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

 

How don't you understand the point he's making?

[Atomic]

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

[holoman]

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

 

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

 

If you don't see the comparison, there is no hope

[BomberBall]

 

 

Darrin Bauming @DarrinBauming

Demond Washington is alongside Troy Stoudermire on the #Bombers' kick return team.

 

 

Kirk Penton @PentonKirk

Jasper Simmons is getting some middle linebacker reps today. #Bombers

 

 

Id rather see us stick an olineman back to return kicks then either of those guys. I like washington as a player, but both of these guys are keith stokes at best returning the ball.

 

I don't know, Stokes wasn't too bad returning punts.  Pretty sure he was an allstar once or twice.  I know one year with the Bombers, he had 4 return TD's.

[rebusrankin]

Anybody else rather see Veltung back there than Troy and Demond?

[Floyd]

Anybody else rather see Veltung back there than Troy and Demond?

 

Demond and Stoudermire are exactly the same returner...  put Denmark and Veltung back there

[BomberBall]

Anybody else rather see Veltung back there than Troy and Demond?

I liked what I saw from Veltung at the beginging of the season... I wouldn't be against it, that's for sure.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

 

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

 

How don't you understand the point he's making?

 

He's claiming people here are saying this is a make or break career moment for Goosen. No one said that. He's a first round pick who has barely played. We just want to know if he can. If he can't it doesn't mean his career is over. If I don't get it, maybe you can clear things up for me, sweep the leg. 

[iso_55]

 

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

 

Teams like Calgary & Montreal who used to have a strong OL can afford to wait 5 years for a draft pick to develop. Please don't compare Winnipeg's OL to the Stamps or Als. We desperately need our draft picks (especially the OL) to contribute & start quickly. We can't afford to develop a player for 5 years. So, while your point may be valid, it's difficult to apply it to the Bombers. 

[Floyd]

Really surprised that we dumped Swiston after what 3-4 years of grooming?  Do we really expect Thomas Griffiths to be better?

[bb1]

Really surprised that we dumped Swiston after what 3-4 years of grooming? Do we really expect Thomas Griffiths to be better?

Swiston hasn't looked good for Cal from what I've seen and if it wasn't for all their injuries he wouldn't be anywhere near their starting 5 imo.

[gbill2004]

I never want to see Washington on returns again. Ever.

The fumbles have killed us in the past. Get Veltung back there.

[Atomic]

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

Teams like Calgary & Montreal who used to have a strong OL can afford to wait 5 years for a draft pick to develop. Please don't compare Winnipeg's OL to the Stamps or Als. We desperately need our draft picks (especially the OL) to contribute & start quickly. We can't afford to develop a player for 5 years. So, while your point may be valid, it's difficult to apply it to the Bombers.

So your argument is that to develop a great line like Calgary or Montreal, we should employ the total opposite draft strategy and only aim for picks ready to start right now? Seems counter intuitive to me.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

Teams like Calgary & Montreal who used to have a strong OL can afford to wait 5 years for a draft pick to develop. Please don't compare Winnipeg's OL to the Stamps or Als. We desperately need our draft picks (especially the OL) to contribute & start quickly. We can't afford to develop a player for 5 years. So, while your point may be valid, it's difficult to apply it to the Bombers.

So your argument is that to develop a great line like Calgary or Montreal, we should employ the total opposite draft strategy and only aim for picks ready to start right now? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

I don't know why we're even discussing this. The Bombers can't afford to wait on a draft pick for 5 years. It's a ridiculous premise. We don't have a 90 man roster where you can put project player  after project player on some list getting them ready to play someday. We have a 5 million dollar salary cap & a limited roster. At some point a player has to show he belongs or he's cut because teams don't have the financial resources to spend on long, long term developmental players. And it's long before five years. The player you named in Montreal was lucky the Als gave him the time to develop as he's an exception. Most players don't get that luxury with Winnipeg or other teams.

[bb1]

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

Teams like Calgary & Montreal who used to have a strong OL can afford to wait 5 years for a draft pick to develop. Please don't compare Winnipeg's OL to the Stamps or Als. We desperately need our draft picks (especially the OL) to contribute & start quickly. We can't afford to develop a player for 5 years. So, while your point may be valid, it's difficult to apply it to the Bombers.

So your argument is that to develop a great line like Calgary or Montreal, we should employ the total opposite draft strategy and only aim for picks ready to start right now? Seems counter intuitive to me.

I don't know why we're even discussing this. The Bombers can't afford to wait on a draft pick for 5 years. It's a ridiculous premise. We don't have a 90 man roster where you can put project player after project player on some list getting them ready to play someday. We have a 5 million dollar salary cap & a limited roster. At some point a player has to show he belongs or he's cut because teams don't have the financial resources to spend on long, long term developmental players. And it's long before five years. The player you named in Montreal was lucky the Als gave him the time to develop as he's an exception. Most players don't get that luxury with Winnipeg or other teams.

You also have to look WHERE we are drafting, top 5 picks gotta be faster starters than 3,4 ,5 rounders.

[Mike]

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

Teams like Calgary & Montreal who used to have a strong OL can afford to wait 5 years for a draft pick to develop. Please don't compare Winnipeg's OL to the Stamps or Als. We desperately need our draft picks (especially the OL) to contribute & start quickly. We can't afford to develop a player for 5 years. So, while your point may be valid, it's difficult to apply it to the Bombers.

So your argument is that to develop a great line like Calgary or Montreal, we should employ the total opposite draft strategy and only aim for picks ready to start right now? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

I don't know why we're even discussing this. The Bombers can't afford to wait on a draft pick for 5 years. It's a ridiculous premise. We don't have a 90 man roster where you can put project player  after project player on some list getting them ready to play someday. We have a 5 million dollar salary cap & a limited roster. At some point a player has to show he belongs or he's cut because teams don't have the financial resources to spend on long, long term developmental players. And it's long before five years. The player you named in Montreal was lucky the Als gave him the time to develop as he's an exception. Most players don't get that luxury with Winnipeg or other teams.

 

 

I think you're missing the point - Calgary and Montreal don't have that model because of where they are. They are where they are because of that model. You're putting the cart before the horse or however that old person saying goes.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not make or break. It's time to see if Goosen was worth being a first round choice.

Kristian Matte was a first round pick in 2010 and didn't start until this year for Montreal. Bad pick??

So, your point? We need to see what Goosen can do. What's Matte have to do with it.

My point is that whether he is a bad pick or not cannot be determined this early in his career. I was using Matte as an example to illustrate that it can take time for a young Canadian OL to develop... Sometimes in the order of several years.

Teams like Calgary & Montreal who used to have a strong OL can afford to wait 5 years for a draft pick to develop. Please don't compare Winnipeg's OL to the Stamps or Als. We desperately need our draft picks (especially the OL) to contribute & start quickly. We can't afford to develop a player for 5 years. So, while your point may be valid, it's difficult to apply it to the Bombers.

So your argument is that to develop a great line like Calgary or Montreal, we should employ the total opposite draft strategy and only aim for picks ready to start right now? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

I don't know why we're even discussing this. The Bombers can't afford to wait on a draft pick for 5 years. It's a ridiculous premise. We don't have a 90 man roster where you can put project player  after project player on some list getting them ready to play someday. We have a 5 million dollar salary cap & a limited roster. At some point a player has to show he belongs or he's cut because teams don't have the financial resources to spend on long, long term developmental players. And it's long before five years. The player you named in Montreal was lucky the Als gave him the time to develop as he's an exception. Most players don't get that luxury with Winnipeg or other teams.

 

 

I think you're missing the point - Calgary and Montreal don't have that model because of where they are. They are where they are because of that model. You're putting the cart before the horse or however that old person saying goes.

 

I know the saying but I don't know how it can be relevant to this discussion. In the past 25 years, the Stamps have never had an OL as bad as the Bombers. Since 1990, the team's OL has always been a strength year in & year out. they always had a veteran group playing up front. So, they could bring in young players  & groom them to start for 2 1/2 decades  with the veterans playing ahead of them. The Stamps the past two years have lost impact players on their offensive line like Dmitri Tsoumpas, Brent Jones, Jon Gott & Stanley Bryant & had backup players ready to replace them. Winnipeg has never had that luxury. They never had the talent or the depth teams like Calgary have had. The Bombers have to find players who can play now. Having a player developing is nice but it's hard for  the Bombers to do that. Hence the signing of Stanley Bryant & paying a premium to get him. So again, you can't compare Winnipeg's OL to Calgary & how the Stamps built theirs. It's completely different.

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

Goosen is 23.  It's not do or die.

[Floyd]

We're all missing the point...  Bombers haven't placed a priority on drafting/developing OL (aside from Labatte and we all know how that ended up)

 

2009 - drafted two OL and then cut them right away

2010 - only go after an OL project in the 6th round, picked Smith and Woodson instead when BPA was Bomben

2011 - picked Dunn and Swiston, liked those picks and then they never really developed - they were not 'forced' to play early, just never played

2012 - went after a ratio breaking tackle instead of restocking our interior, take a flier on Bilukidi when decent OL are still on the board

2013 - 6 potential starting OL on the board and we take Mulumba

2014 - liked this draft but then we cut Quinn Everett after one year...  bringing Goossen slowly

2015 - can't miss on a 1st round OL and he's performing

 

So no draft strategy for seven years and no real focus on development - that and Mack's penchant for picking injury-prone 'steals'

 

At least, I kind of understand what Walters is going for now...  surprised about Everett though

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

I know the saying but I don't know how it can be relevant to this discussion. In the past 25 years, the Stamps have never had an OL as bad as the Bombers. Since 1990, the team's OL has always been a strength year in & year out. they always had a veteran group playing up front. So, they could bring in young players  & groom them to start for 2 1/2 decades  with the veterans playing ahead of them. The Stamps the past two years have lost impact players on their offensive line like Dmitri Tsoumpas, Brent Jones, Jon Gott & Stanley Bryant & had backup players ready to replace them. Winnipeg has never had that luxury. They never had the talent or the depth teams like Calgary have had. The Bombers have to find players who can play now. Having a player developing is nice but it's hard for  the Bombers to do that. Hence the signing of Stanley Bryant & paying a premium to get him. So again, you can't compare Winnipeg's OL to Calgary & how the Stamps built theirs. It's completely different.

 

 

The point is that to have the depth, you have to build the depth.  And that takes time, both for the whole unit to come together and for individual players to develop.  The only irrelevant point here is the one about Bryant, because imports aren't given time to develop.  There's no premium on them, there's literally 5000 offensive linemen coming out of NCAA each year.  They can play or they aren't pros.

[Goalie]

2013? Watman. 3 or so redshirt NCAA guys who we would have had to wait for. And Jones? Who is trying the NFL.

Hindsight is interesting but I'm sure ppl would have been more pissed if we took one of the redshirt NCAA guys. Jones was never an option it sounded like and regardless if we took him wouldn't be on the team right now anyways. Not sure who the 6th is? Bergman who was taken late in the draft? Albright? Taken late. Not sure who the 6th guy is exactly

[iso_55]

Goosen is 23.  It's not do or die.

Exactly, it's just time to see what he can do. THAT'S ALL.

[iso_55]

 

I know the saying but I don't know how it can be relevant to this discussion. In the past 25 years, the Stamps have never had an OL as bad as the Bombers. Since 1990, the team's OL has always been a strength year in & year out. they always had a veteran group playing up front. So, they could bring in young players  & groom them to start for 2 1/2 decades  with the veterans playing ahead of them. The Stamps the past two years have lost impact players on their offensive line like Dmitri Tsoumpas, Brent Jones, Jon Gott & Stanley Bryant & had backup players ready to replace them. Winnipeg has never had that luxury. They never had the talent or the depth teams like Calgary have had. The Bombers have to find players who can play now. Having a player developing is nice but it's hard for  the Bombers to do that. Hence the signing of Stanley Bryant & paying a premium to get him. So again, you can't compare Winnipeg's OL to Calgary & how the Stamps built theirs. It's completely different.

 

 

The point is that to have the depth, you have to build the depth.  And that takes time, both for the whole unit to come together and for individual players to develop.  The only irrelevant point here is the one about Bryant, because imports aren't given time to develop.  There's no premium on them, there's literally 5000 offensive linemen coming out of NCAA each year.  They can play or they aren't pros.

 

 

 

I know the saying but I don't know how it can be relevant to this discussion. In the past 25 years, the Stamps have never had an OL as bad as the Bombers. Since 1990, the team's OL has always been a strength year in & year out. they always had a veteran group playing up front. So, they could bring in young players  & groom them to start for 2 1/2 decades  with the veterans playing ahead of them. The Stamps the past two years have lost impact players on their offensive line like Dmitri Tsoumpas, Brent Jones, Jon Gott & Stanley Bryant & had backup players ready to replace them. Winnipeg has never had that luxury. They never had the talent or the depth teams like Calgary have had. The Bombers have to find players who can play now. Having a player developing is nice but it's hard for  the Bombers to do that. Hence the signing of Stanley Bryant & paying a premium to get him. So again, you can't compare Winnipeg's OL to Calgary & how the Stamps built theirs. It's completely different.

 

 

The point is that to have the depth, you have to build the depth.  And that takes time, both for the whole unit to come together and for individual players to develop.  The only irrelevant point here is the one about Bryant, because imports aren't given time to develop.  There's no premium on them, there's literally 5000 offensive linemen coming out of NCAA each year.  They can play or they aren't pros.

 

When you sign a high impact FA player during free agency team's pay a premium because they're competing against other teams for that player.

[Tracker]

 

Goosen is 23.  It's not do or die.

Exactly, it's just time to see what he can do. THAT'S ALL.

 

Exactly. And not two plays here and three next quarter- give him at least a full quarter to show that he belongs.