Worst Backups in the league.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Here's an open question to anyone. What playcalls aren't garbage when your quarterback literally cannot make a throw? Keeping in mind that the defense is sitting in short zones to stop screens, quick game and the run. You have 2 downs to get 10 yards. Oh ya, on every play 2 of your offensive linemen are going to get absolutely obliterated at the line of scrimmage.

GO!

Like Mark F alluded to, your analysis emphasizes the importance of our run game which is basically non-existent from a consistent point of view.

I still think a bigger back like a Messam type (one in shape though) would at least help (maybe?) alleviate some of the lack of skill at the QB/Line positions.

And if Marve can't get out of the pocket based on the Defense, take what the defence gives us and dink and dunk down the field, we have the receivers for that, especially Moore.

A run heavy offense without at least the threat of the quarterback doing something with his arm will be inconsistent too. Defenses will adjust and at some point Marve has to make them pay with his arm. Until he can do that it doesn't matter who is calling the plays or what plays are called.

We have a big back. It doesn't make a difference when teams sit all their defenders within 8-10 yards of the line of scrimmage because they have nothing to fear from the quarterback.

[JuranBoldenRules]

didn't Marve play last year when the bombers beat calgary?

how's that even possible if he's so crappy?

Marve was better last year usuing his natural abilities, this year he's been enrolled in Marcel's QB kindergarten and is failing miserably.

His "natural abilities" aren't going to take him far if he doesn't learn how to pass at a basic level. Calgary had Simpson spying him and sealing the edge behind the end if Marve did try to leave the pocket. Calgary's ends also never came on inside moves, they stayed in pretty clearly defined wide rush lanes to not give him any opportunity to rollout or scramble. Marve is going to have a hell of a time leaving the pocket if he doesn't make teams respect his arm to at least a basic level.

Shovel pass or screen solves this problem early...

To get the ball into the hands of another player to get rocked for minimal gain. There needs to be a threat 10-15 yards down the field and deep as well to open things up. Marve has shown no ability to make accurate throws on time at those levels.

[Guest J5V]

 

 

 

 

didn't Marve play last year when the bombers beat calgary?

how's that even possible if he's so crappy?

Marve was better last year usuing his natural abilities, this year he's been enrolled in Marcel's QB kindergarten and is failing miserably.

His "natural abilities" aren't going to take him far if he doesn't learn how to pass at a basic level. Calgary had Simpson spying him and sealing the edge behind the end if Marve did try to leave the pocket. Calgary's ends also never came on inside moves, they stayed in pretty clearly defined wide rush lanes to not give him any opportunity to rollout or scramble. Marve is going to have a hell of a time leaving the pocket if he doesn't make teams respect his arm to at least a basic level.

Shovel pass or screen solves this problem early...

To get the ball into the hands of another player to get rocked for minimal gain. There needs to be a threat 10-15 yards down the field and deep as well to open things up. Marve has shown no ability to make accurate throws on time at those levels.

 

Did you see the Eskimo's Franklin dropping deep balls gently over the defenders reach into the waiting arms of his receivers? Man, I wanted to cry! How do other teams find these guys and why can't we?

[Tracker]

 

 

 

 

 

didn't Marve play last year when the bombers beat calgary?

how's that even possible if he's so crappy?

Marve was better last year usuing his natural abilities, this year he's been enrolled in Marcel's QB kindergarten and is failing miserably.

His "natural abilities" aren't going to take him far if he doesn't learn how to pass at a basic level. Calgary had Simpson spying him and sealing the edge behind the end if Marve did try to leave the pocket. Calgary's ends also never came on inside moves, they stayed in pretty clearly defined wide rush lanes to not give him any opportunity to rollout or scramble. Marve is going to have a hell of a time leaving the pocket if he doesn't make teams respect his arm to at least a basic level.

Shovel pass or screen solves this problem early...

To get the ball into the hands of another player to get rocked for minimal gain. There needs to be a threat 10-15 yards down the field and deep as well to open things up. Marve has shown no ability to make accurate throws on time at those levels.

 

Did you see the Eskimo's Franklin dropping deep balls gently over the defenders reach into the waiting arms of his receivers? Man, I wanted to cry! How do other teams find these guys and why can't we?

 

Maybe its because we are paying our QBs in Canadian Tire money?

[TrueBlue4ever]

 

didn't Marve play last year when the bombers beat calgary?

 

how's that even possible if he's so crappy?

The Stamps had wrapped up first place. It was a nothing game to them & they rested a number of key veterans. The focus was the western Final & not the Bombers. To the Stamps it was like an exhibition game & they played a number of backups that game. I don't think BLM or Cornish played the entire game. 

 

 

That's part of it. The bigger reason was that the game was played in a miserable blizzard and Calgary had 5 fumbles, a turnover on downs, had a field goal attempt from 25 yards out hit the upright, and a blocked punt that led to the Bombers only touchdown, and still only lost 18-13. Oh yeah, and that TD drive after the punt block was all of 4 yards and took 2 plays to get it in. Marve threw for 72 yards in one half of football - 42 of which was on one catch and run by Denmark (and Marve wasn't the QB Calgary had prepped for). People here are so fed up with Brohm that they mistakenly turned Marve into some sort of guru saviour without truly judging how unimpressive he was. He has racked up most of his stats in garbage time against prevent defences in blowout losses. Still better than Brohm and his one-skip passes, but fanboys had their blinders on because all we had was unjustified hope that we had a QB who could salvage another lousy season.

 

Perhaps the main reason Marve looked better against the Argos.....is that Marcel hadn't totally coached him up yet....

 

 

Perhaps since Toronto didn't have much film on Marve they weren't sure how to defend his game at first. It took one half for them to get a read on his game and adjust, and Marve was essentially ineffective after the half. Calgary had a full game of tape on him and didn't need a half to figure out his weaknesses. These are the same weaknesses many of the doubters have expressed from the beginning (when they weren't being shouted down and labelled as negatrons)  - no patience in the pocket, doesn't run through his progressions and looks to make a play with his legs at the first sign of trouble, and now a new weakness has come to light in the fact that he has no touch with the deep ball at all, making his skill set very limited and predictable.

[Jpan85]

Marve stares down his primary receiver I rarely saw him look towards another receiver. Has little to no pocket awareness. Throws one of the worst deep balls I have seen. For a guy who rockets his short passes in he throws complete rainbows when going deep.

[Goalie]

Time to see what Davis is all about... He couldn't be worse. 

[17to85]

What I want to know is where all the Rah Rah Marve types have gone and whether they want to apologize for arguing with me when I tried to say calm down and that Marve needed to show he could pass from the pocket or he'd be easy to defend. Lo and behold teams are making him play from the pocket and begging him to throw up risky balls. He needs to be able to hit some deep throws to loosen things up, so far his deep attempts have been to be frank, awful. 

[iso_55]

What I want to know is where all the Rah Rah Marve types have gone and whether they want to apologize for arguing with me when I tried to say calm down and that Marve needed to show he could pass from the pocket or he'd be easy to defend. Lo and behold teams are making him play from the pocket and begging him to throw up risky balls. He needs to be able to hit some deep throws to loosen things up, so far his deep attempts have been to be frank, awful. 

Marve offered hope after Brohm. Now we seem to know what he's about. Dominique Davis, next?

[Logan007]

See...that one time a few weeks ago I was saying we should start Davis.  Now look where everyone is.  YEAH DAVIS GO!!!!

 

#teamdavis, #futurestarqb, #supremeoverlordofcfl

[Goalie]

NO. Marve to lots of people, who 17 is talking about really were proclaiming him to be the saviour and second coming, say he's gonna take Willys job and all this nonsense. I'm not sure where those people are anymore either. It's pretty obvious the guy either just doesn't get it, doesn't have the brains really, or just doesn't have the ability.. or both really.

 

Seen it so many times, the 2nd or 3rd stringer getting all this fanfare, play him and he's not good and people just don't want to accept it.

 

I'll be honest, I think Marve has some potential but only as a 3rd string short yardage guy, Justin Goltz 2.0 really.... I'm at the point where i'm not sure if it's worth it to keep trying Marve anymore, Definitely can't play Brohm but honestly, i dunno if he'd be any worse than Marve was. 

[Mike]

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

[17to85]

 

What I want to know is where all the Rah Rah Marve types have gone and whether they want to apologize for arguing with me when I tried to say calm down and that Marve needed to show he could pass from the pocket or he'd be easy to defend. Lo and behold teams are making him play from the pocket and begging him to throw up risky balls. He needs to be able to hit some deep throws to loosen things up, so far his deep attempts have been to be frank, awful. 

Marve offered hope after Brohm. Now we seem to know what he's about. Dominique Davis, next?

 

So the Mike Kelly school of handling qbs? Leave a trail of broken qbs behind you and nothing in the system be rushing players hoping for a miracle? Outside of Ricky Ray quarterbacks take time to develop. You rush them in a bad situation you have destroyed whatever potential they might have. You think it's a coincidence that the teams that have been able to actually develop qbs have had a stable situation like Calgary with some former qbs/offensive gurus and veterans to bring along youngsters or Toronto with Ray as the established starter and Milanovich as a bit of a guru? Really who else has developed a qb? Sask with Durant and Willy who learned behind him.... Reilly developed behind Lulay... Hamilton didn't develop ****, they had to get a qb from Toronto, Montreal has tried a bunch of guys and they've all been found wanting. Edmonton has had a lot of guys go through and none of them have turned into much. Maybe Franklin is different, maybe he just had the good first game and will come back to reality? Remains to be seen.

 

You know how you get a good quarterbacking situation? Stability from the GM to the coaches to the players. We have not had stability in GMs or coaches or players in an eternity. It's not that we bring in useless players, it's that they never get a chance to develop properly. They're always tossed into the deep end and expected to swim.  

[kelownabomberfan]

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

 

Yup, I was hyping Marve, I admit it, and all I've seen so far is Justin Goltz 2.0.  Argh.

[Tracker]

 

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

 

Yup, I was hyping Marve, I admit it, and all I've seen so far is Justin Goltz 2.0.  Argh.

 

The key words are "so far". Lets give Marve another game (or most of it) to show why he ought to be a starter, or here at all, for that matter. And then there's the Bellefeuille effect....

[Logan007]

AW, I knew I should have posted right saying someone was going to come on here and say "well we need to give him some more time".  Dang...now I can't say I told you so to anyone.

[SPuDS]

Marve has shown no ability so far to operate at the speed the CFL requires.

 

He spends WAY too long making his primary read.

This compounds, because it forces him to rush into the next read.

This compounds, because when he's rushed, he goes into survival mode.

This compounds, because when he goes into survival mode, he resorts to his comfort zone which is to freelance and run around.

 

Not to mention he throws the deep ball like he's throwing 50/50 jackpot balls on the schoolyard, he makes way too many poor decisions to throw across his body and he's inaccurate as hell.

His deep balls are scary as hell to watch because they are ALWAYS up for grabs..

But even his simple checkdowns and medium 7-10 yarders are offbase. Recievers constantly reaching, stretching and bending to get em..

I thought his freewheeling was his biggest asset but when you suck in defenders and then make your pass catchers have to stop or twist or backup to make the catch, its as useless as standing behind the line except odds aree better you lose less on the sack lol.

[M.O.A.B.]

Let' trade for Matt Nicholls. He will come in cheap, he's done in Edmonton.

[TBURGESS]

One guy was hyping Marve as a savior who could take Willy's job. Everyone else said Marve is a option better than Brohm, which is still true. 

 

If you force a running QB to change their game to become a pocket passer, you're going to see a lousy pocket passer because that's not what got them to the pro level. They have very little if any experience or pocket presence because that's not what they've done all their lives.  If it was what they were good at, they'd already be pocket passers.

 

Marve was horrible when he tried to run MB's offense against Calgary. MB needs to change the offense to fit Marves strengths instead of the other way around. That's probably the only route to success with Marve as QB this year and there are no guarantees that will work anyway.

 

A lot of the problems have to do with expectations. Folks want Marve to have touch with receivers he's only been throwing to for about a week? They want him to be able to throw deep from the pocket when he only gets 2 or 3 deep shots called all game? They want him to stay in the pocket and go through his reads and run when it's there but not too soon while the O line provides him with 2-3 seconds. Not realistic.

 

I'd much rather have Willy at QB, but that's not happening right now and it may not be possible this year. I think Marve is our second best choice. I know he's green and that he's a scrambler not a pocket passer. I know that his accuracy leaves a lot to be desired and that's the top quality I look for in a good QB. I'm hoping they change the offence to allow Marve to do what he does best and that practice will help him get in sync with his receivers. I'm well aware that it may not do any good but it's our only chance IMO.

[trueBlue83]

I think people are really expecting too much from Marve at this point.... we're still looking at Start #3 for him for Labour Day.  The guy still needs to get comfortable, which he is not.  Yes, the schemes need to improve, but the things that people are harping on, the deep ball, accuracy, reads... these don't get better without more experience at full game speed.  Practice will help only so much.  Marve had an opportunity to hit one deep ball in the 2nd quarter I think it was, and he stepped up and just put a bit too much on it.  Adrenaline in making that big play probably caused him to gun it, and those are small mistakes you can learn from.

 

Giving up on Marve, when we really don't have another option, isn't going to accomplish anything. (yes I said trade for Ricky Ray earlier, but you gotta dream sometimes).  Giving Marve the next two starts to develop some confidence against a shaky Rider D could be just what the doctor ordered.  You can't roll out Brohm.  we know what we've got there, and quite frankly, I'd be happy if we never see it again!

[do or die]

Marve has to learn to set his feet, to throw down the field......and his reads have to be much better.  But what was with all the dropbacks?  Marshall getting 4 touches in the first half?  Simpson was spying Marve all day - no calls to take advantage of that.....

The offensive package we put in for Marve was beyond useless.....with a start already under his belt, and two weeks to prepare.   

As far as Brohm goes (and that is preferably far away), why this organization wastes any more time with that guy is a mystery.  

 

We have to go with Marve, to see if he can accomplish something.....with Brohm, we already know that he will accomplish nothing.

[Fatty Liver]

Comparing Marve to Smith in Sask. their styles are quite similar but Smith is having more success and getting better with every game.  The difference is Smith is rolling out on almost every play and using his mobility to his advantage while Marve is being contained in the pocket and only running when he has no options left which causes desperation throws.

[bb1]

What I want to know is where all the Rah Rah Marve types have gone and whether they want to apologize for arguing with me when I tried to say calm down and that Marve needed to show he could pass from the pocket or he'd be easy to defend. Lo and behold teams are making him play from the pocket and begging him to throw up risky balls. He needs to be able to hit some deep throws to loosen things up, so far his deep attempts have been to be frank, awful.

Here is one rah rah never said he was good just better than Brohm sadly that is still the case.

[TrueBlue4ever]

What I want to know is where all the Rah Rah Marve types have gone and whether they want to apologize for arguing with me when I tried to say calm down and that Marve needed to show he could pass from the pocket or he'd be easy to defend. Lo and behold teams are making him play from the pocket and begging him to throw up risky balls. He needs to be able to hit some deep throws to loosen things up, so far his deep attempts have been to be frank, awful.

Good luck waiting for that apology. That's about as likely as a week without an "I told you so" post on these boards. There are still people who haven't apologized for their "Joe Mack has done a lot of good and left us a much better football club than before he was in place" stance, and subsequent name-calling and insults for those who took an opposite stance (except IC Khari, who actually admitted that he was wrong about Mack in the end - kudos to you sir), so you might not want to hold your breath waiting for that concession from others on the Marve debate.

[WBBFanWest]

I thought I was wrong once but it turned out that I was mistaken about that.