Markus Howell as the new OC - Free Press

[pigseye]

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

[Mark H.]

 

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

 

 

Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one.

[Logan007]

 

 

So if Markus Howell calls the plays Robert Marve will be able to pass like a real CFL QB?  Sign him up!

You know what...the MB fan club is over there...

 

 

...go sit with them.

 

 

Youtube super stars.  That's the angry video game nerd on the left and Keith Apicary on the right.  Both are far more successful than anyone the Bombers have employed this season.

 

Dude, I don't go ruining my jokes with your knowledge of the interwebz.

[pigseye]

 

 

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

 

 

Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one.

 

 

Denmark has stunk this year, even said so himself in the paper and Moore, if he plays is going up against the defences best cover man, the rest of our receivers probably don't even belong on a professional field of play.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

 

 

Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one.

 

 

Denmark has stunk this year, even said so himself in the paper and Moore, if he plays is going up against the defences best cover man, the rest of our receivers probably don't even belong on a professional field of play.

 

Here's an example, against Toronto Marve had Denmark open deep and missed the throw by 10 yards. It's not that there's no options to throw it deep, it's that when Marve does throw it deep he is not throwing a catchable ball. I know people love to hate on the coaches, I dislike Bellefeuille as a coach too and I argued for him to be fired before Etchevary was fired, but come on, Marve hasn't done anything to make teams respect his arm. They bait him to throw deep and he buys it, they don't believe he can throw over the top accurately so they sit and wait for him to try and run and make him make a mistake by waiting for it. He's predictable and until he can open up the coverage by actually passing the ball well it's going to be more of the same. 

[KptKrunch]

For sure it's a team effort. The QBing has been terrible since Willy went down, the oline hasn't opened up many holes for the running game and hasn't been consistent in pass blocking, and our receivers seem incapable of making any big plays or great catches. I recall a few years back and how our receivers couldn't get open if their lives depended on it. Now, with all the zone defense being played, there's TONS of holes. Eskimo's exploit them all the time - with their backups! Watch a game live and you can see it. Why can't the bombers exploit the same holes. 

 

I'm really starting to hate the 'I gotta watch the game film' answers too. What a crock. We'll never win another game, or even be in one, if we can't make adjustments on the fly and figure out what the other team is doing DURING the game. Watching the film AFTER the game is USELESS. After all, they had TWO WEEKS to watch game film and study and they only mustered 130 odd yards of total offense. 

[pigseye]

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

 

 

Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one.

 

 

Denmark has stunk this year, even said so himself in the paper and Moore, if he plays is going up against the defences best cover man, the rest of our receivers probably don't even belong on a professional field of play.

 

Here's an example, against Toronto Marve had Denmark open deep and missed the throw by 10 yards. It's not that there's no options to throw it deep, it's that when Marve does throw it deep he is not throwing a catchable ball. I know people love to hate on the coaches, I dislike Bellefeuille as a coach too and I argued for him to be fired before Etchevary was fired, but come on, Marve hasn't done anything to make teams respect his arm. They bait him to throw deep and he buys it, they don't believe he can throw over the top accurately so they sit and wait for him to try and run and make him make a mistake by waiting for it. He's predictable and until he can open up the coverage by actually passing the ball well it's going to be more of the same. 

 

 

Yes, first series of the game, he was jacked up and over threw him no doubt. He's a rookie, those things happen, I'll wait to have more data than just one over throw to say the guy' can't pass or throw' as some seem to think.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

 

 

Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one.

 

 

Denmark has stunk this year, even said so himself in the paper and Moore, if he plays is going up against the defences best cover man, the rest of our receivers probably don't even belong on a professional field of play.

 

Here's an example, against Toronto Marve had Denmark open deep and missed the throw by 10 yards. It's not that there's no options to throw it deep, it's that when Marve does throw it deep he is not throwing a catchable ball. I know people love to hate on the coaches, I dislike Bellefeuille as a coach too and I argued for him to be fired before Etchevary was fired, but come on, Marve hasn't done anything to make teams respect his arm. They bait him to throw deep and he buys it, they don't believe he can throw over the top accurately so they sit and wait for him to try and run and make him make a mistake by waiting for it. He's predictable and until he can open up the coverage by actually passing the ball well it's going to be more of the same. 

 

 

Yes, first series of the game, he was jacked up and over threw him no doubt. He's a rookie, those things happen, I'll wait to have more data than just one over throw to say the guy' can't pass or throw' as some seem to think.

 

That's not the only deep ball he's thrown poorly just an obvious example that came to mind instantly. What about the one against Calgary he underthrew to I think Denmark when he was double covered? MAybe you were at the game but you know what Matt Dunigan said on that one? Said it was a terrible decision, the db was baiting him and he threw it anyway, lucky he wasn't picked off. If he looked to the other side of the field he had an option. 

 

Look I want Marve to do well but the guy isn't ready to play quarterback. Doesn't read the field quick enough and his arm might be strong but he hasn't connected on one deep attempt yet. That is basic stuff. Even if you can't read a defence you should be able to throw a deep ball to a place the receiver can catch it. 

[pigseye]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble.

 

 

Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option.

 

 

Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one.

 

 

Denmark has stunk this year, even said so himself in the paper and Moore, if he plays is going up against the defences best cover man, the rest of our receivers probably don't even belong on a professional field of play.

 

Here's an example, against Toronto Marve had Denmark open deep and missed the throw by 10 yards. It's not that there's no options to throw it deep, it's that when Marve does throw it deep he is not throwing a catchable ball. I know people love to hate on the coaches, I dislike Bellefeuille as a coach too and I argued for him to be fired before Etchevary was fired, but come on, Marve hasn't done anything to make teams respect his arm. They bait him to throw deep and he buys it, they don't believe he can throw over the top accurately so they sit and wait for him to try and run and make him make a mistake by waiting for it. He's predictable and until he can open up the coverage by actually passing the ball well it's going to be more of the same. 

 

 

Yes, first series of the game, he was jacked up and over threw him no doubt. He's a rookie, those things happen, I'll wait to have more data than just one over throw to say the guy' can't pass or throw' as some seem to think.

 

That's not the only deep ball he's thrown poorly just an obvious example that came to mind instantly. What about the one against Calgary he underthrew to I think Denmark when he was double covered? MAybe you were at the game but you know what Matt Dunigan said on that one? Said it was a terrible decision, the db was baiting him and he threw it anyway, lucky he wasn't picked off. If he looked to the other side of the field he had an option. 

 

Look I want Marve to do well but the guy isn't ready to play quarterback. Doesn't read the field quick enough and his arm might be strong but he hasn't connected on one deep attempt yet. That is basic stuff. Even if you can't read a defence you should be able to throw a deep ball to a place the receiver can catch it. 

 

 

That's all I'm saying, don't expect him to do things he can't or isn't ready for. He's a backup not the starter, there should be a drop off at the position otherwise he'd be starting for some one else. Collaros, Reilly, all paid their dues as back ups before.

[Tracker]

As badly as Marve stunk last game, it may be too soon to write him off. When I was into martial arts, I arrived at the dojo one day to find that a 6th degree dan from Japan was visiting and was offering to go a round with anyone who wished. I was only a brown belt at the time, and took the bait, but was nervous and iintimidated as all get-out.

In short, he wiped the floor with me despite being so old that his skin was almost transparent and spotting me about 60 pounds. One of the other brown belts arrived late and was invited to go against the master without being told all about his credentials- all my friend knew was that he was up against a 70-something 160 lb black belt. My friend lost as well , but put up a real fight, but I had beaten my friend on several occasions, so I ought to have done much better.

But I didn't and it was all nerves, so maybe, just maybe Marve is better than we have seen, and if (and thats a big if) he can get his head together he might have a career here. Surely to God he has to be better- if he was that inept in college, he couldn't have made the team as the waterboy.

[17to85]

but his lack of accuracy is alarming. I don't care how raw a guy is throwing the ball to the right spot should be a requirement to even get a look at this level. 

[pigseye]

He's 60% this year but that's not the point.

It's like retraining your brain

Marve has always been a sprint out and throw on the run qb, that's what he's always done

Asking him to stay cool and stand in the pocket is like learning Japanese

He may get it, he probably won't

[17to85]

60% because of the short throws, how's that translate into an effective offence? If you can't complete deeper throws all you're doing is shrinking the amount of field a team has to defend when playing you and you get games like the Calgary game where there's under 200 yards offence and multiple interceptions. Marve sucks throwing deep, that shouldn't be something a multiple year profession has that much trouble with period. He needs to come back next week and show that he can be a quarterback and not just a glorified running back. 

[Mr Dee]

As badly as Marve stunk last game, it may be too soon to write him off. When I was into martial arts, I arrived at the dojo one day to find that a 6th degree dan from Japan was visiting and was offering to go a round with anyone who wished. I was only a brown belt at the time, and took the bait, but was nervous and iintimidated as all get-out.

In short, he wiped the floor with me despite being so old that his skin was almost transparent and spotting me about 60 pounds. One of the other brown belts arrived late and was invited to go against the master without being told all about his credentials- all my friend knew was that he was up against a 70-something 160 lb black belt. My friend lost as well , but put up a real fight, but I had beaten my friend on several occasions, so I ought to have done much better.

But I didn't and it was all nerves, so maybe, just maybe Marve is better than we have seen, and if (and thats a big if) he can get his head together he might have a career here. Surely to God he has to be better- if he was that inept in college, he couldn't have made the team as the waterboy.

The problem with this is convincing the other teams to employ 70 year old DBs..

[pigseye]

60% because of the short throws, how's that translate into an effective offence? If you can't complete deeper throws all you're doing is shrinking the amount of field a team has to defend when playing you and you get games like the Calgary game where there's under 200 yards offence and multiple interceptions. Marve sucks throwing deep, that shouldn't be something a multiple year profession has that much trouble with period. He needs to come back next week and show that he can be a quarterback and not just a glorified running back. 

 

And you'd be wrong.

[StevetheClub]

60% because of the short throws, how's that translate into an effective offence? If you can't complete deeper throws all you're doing is shrinking the amount of field a team has to defend when playing you and you get games like the Calgary game where there's under 200 yards offence and multiple interceptions. Marve sucks throwing deep, that shouldn't be something a multiple year profession has that much trouble with period. He needs to come back next week and show that he can be a quarterback and not just a glorified running back. 

 

And it wasn't just his accuracy, but also his decision making when he finally did attempt to throw deep. I don't recall him throwing to somebody who was actually open once.

[TBURGESS]

I don't understand why folks expect a QB starting his 2nd game to make good decisions all the time. It's just not going to happen. Marve isn't going to play mistake free football. Nobody plays mistake free football.

 

Sure Marve threw across his body. Everyone knows it's a bad thing because we've all seen it a thousand times in the CFL. Every QB in the league's made that mistake at least once. Sometimes they even get away with it, which makes them try again. It doesn't make Marve a bad QB. It makes him an inexperienced one.

 

Everyone's seen QB's throw deep into double coverage too. Matty was probably right that Marve didn't trust his eyes and threw to the wrong receiver. It happens. That shows Marve's inexperience, not an inability to throw the deep ball.  Sure he did missed a wide open receiver in his first game that would have been a TD, which looked horrible, but he's not the only QB to ever do that either.

 

How can folks say that Marve can't complete a deep or even a medium depth pass?  He's only thrown a handful of those kinds of passes because the design of our offence is to dink and dunk, not to go deep. Give him some time (A rollout or 10 perhaps). Give him some 1st string reps (Nope 1 week isn't enough). Give him a running game to keep the D line off of him. Let him throw a dozen medium/deep balls in game situations. Then you can decide if he can or can't throw them.

 

Marve is an inexperienced QB, playing in a system that's designed for a pocket passer, that doesn't take advantage of his strengths, that doesn't establish the run, that expects him to complete a high % of short passes, on a team that folds when he makes any mistakes. I can't think of a single advantage that Marve has in our offence. 

[do or die]

Yes, the idea is that a guy making his 2nd start has or might have some limitations. 

In that situation, the deal...... is putting in a game package that playes to his strengths and finds ways to ease some the pressure on him. 

What was served up by MB, (2 week prep) .....was complete incompetence

[JuranBoldenRules]

He's 60% this year but that's not the point.

It's like retraining your brain

Marve has always been a sprint out and throw on the run qb, that's what he's always done

Asking him to stay cool and stand in the pocket is like learning Japanese

He may get it, he probably won't

 

Pro style offences at both colleges he played for, which means a fair amount of throwing from the pocket.  He was a 4 star rated top 10 QB in his class but never fit the bill in NCAA, struggled pretty much his entire career as a passer back through college other than a handful of games against really bad teams as a senior.  200 yards rushing on 150 carries, granted the NCAA counts sacks in QB rushing stats, but still not the numbers of a running QB.  Lost his starting spot in Miami, lost it at Purdue, both due to on the field and off the field struggles.

 

Doesn't scream QB of the future to me based on his past or present, guess we'll see how he does in Regina.

[LeBird]

That last paragraph about O'shea being a coach players want to play for should shut some people up... but won't

Now the only thing left to do is to define play. Is it like play with dolls or play house or is it busting your a$$ on every play and at every practice? 

[StevetheClub]

I don't understand why folks expect a QB starting his 2nd game to make good decisions all the time. It's just not going to happen. Marve isn't going to play mistake free football. Nobody plays mistake free football.

 

Sure Marve threw across his body. Everyone knows it's a bad thing because we've all seen it a thousand times in the CFL. Every QB in the league's made that mistake at least once. Sometimes they even get away with it, which makes them try again. It doesn't make Marve a bad QB. It makes him an inexperienced one.

 

Everyone's seen QB's throw deep into double coverage too. Matty was probably right that Marve didn't trust his eyes and threw to the wrong receiver. It happens. That shows Marve's inexperience, not an inability to throw the deep ball.  Sure he did missed a wide open receiver in his first game that would have been a TD, which looked horrible, but he's not the only QB to ever do that either.

 

How can folks say that Marve can't complete a deep or even a medium depth pass?  He's only thrown a handful of those kinds of passes because the design of our offence is to dink and dunk, not to go deep. Give him some time (A rollout or 10 perhaps). Give him some 1st string reps (Nope 1 week isn't enough). Give him a running game to keep the D line off of him. Let him throw a dozen medium/deep balls in game situations. Then you can decide if he can or can't throw them.

 

Marve is an inexperienced QB, playing in a system that's designed for a pocket passer, that doesn't take advantage of his strengths, that doesn't establish the run, that expects him to complete a high % of short passes, on a team that folds when he makes any mistakes. I can't think of a single advantage that Marve has in our offence. 

 

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.

[TBURGESS]

 

 

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.

 

Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.

 

Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works.

[JuranBoldenRules]

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.

Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.

Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works.

There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.

In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it?

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

 

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.

Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.

Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works.

There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.

In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it?

 

If the long ball isn't the first read, Marve isn't going to take it. Willy's a better QB and a pocket passer who gets to his 2nd maybe even 3rd read. That's the idea, not that I know what the reads are on any given play. 

[17to85]

No one is giving Marve too much grief for his mistakes. Throwing across the body for the int didn't bother me that much because that's a rookie mistake, not being able to connect on long balls though that's something else entirely. You can watch his passes and see he's not close on them, that's the concern here. He's a professional quarterback in his 2nd year, surely to god he should be able to better place a ball than he has shown.