A Comprehensive Review of Kyle Walters

[dmillerywg]

 

Thanks for the post it was very well thought out and worded, I can't argue with much of it, I agree one of Walters weakness is lack of solid WRs brought in however I would argue we don't know if Marcel B. passed on a few that could have actually helped us after all it was this coaching staff that decided A. Kelly was no good and benched him at a time when Moore was out leaving us very thin and putting egos ahead of the good of the team... We could still use a big target like Kelly he may not have been fast but he was a big target and had great hands...So sometimes the GMs can bring in the best players they want but if the coaches don't like them because the "don't fit the system" not much a GM can do about that. If we look at Allen at MLB he probably would have been our best option but the Bombers decided to go with Hurl ( Big Mistake )

I do think Hurl is an ok player but is the worst MLB in the CFL by a big margin, he is averaging 3 tackles a game and some will say that is because of his roll but I have seen many tackles he could have made if he had more speed agility or aggression ( he is lacking all 3 IMO ) but he will make the tackle if someone come directly at him...

 

So for me while Walters needs to improve in many areas I like that he is constantly trying to improve the roster, I do agree we should be picking the best player regardless of position and Kyle needs to learn that from the Calgary model...

 

At the same time I would love it if you take a long hard look at the real problem on the team its the coaching not the GM IMO...

Except that Kelly was a retread. He washed out of Hamilton and the league until the Bombers gave him another shot. I believe he was one of Bellefeuilles guys from Hamilton and he wasn't good enough there, why did we think he was going to be good enough here? We sure could use a big target on the sidelines, but more along the lines of Chris Matthews (who Mack dug up out of nowhere) as opposed to Aaron Kelly who was not good enough for the CFL once before the bombers went dumpster diving. Veltung is the only receiver this regime has actually recruited from the states that has even looked like he could play for us. I'd argue that Kelly is the exact opposite situation you describe. A case where the coach brought in someone he liked and stubbornly stuck with him despite the player not being good enough. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Kelly was worth keeping he was too slow I am just saying he was important to the Bombers last year and contributed greatly to at less 3 of the 6 wins he was involved in.

He was benched for the last 4 or so games, what I am saying is the Bombers made a coaching mistake to put their Egos ahead of the team when they benched Kelly and they started playing rookies that have since been cut. My entire point is that I agree Walters needs to improve but when you give a good player to a bad coach what do you get ? I liked Marcel B. at first but I have grown to have no faith in anything he does, I think he is simply over his head and just a stubborn as MOS...

So to me we should be focusing on the real problem not Walters but the Coaching in particular our OC , ST and OL coaches are simply not good enough...IMO...

[sweep the leg]

Hurl starting as MLB is not on Walters though. Walters & company brought in a lot of competition at MLB, Allen was considered to be the frontrunner on that job. Oshea ultimately selected Hurl even though he is a lesser MLB compared to Allen.

 

Hurl is like the Kuale this year, starting because of Oshea's favoritism. Hurl is not ****head like Kuale though and he carries a right passport.

Based on what?

[sweep the leg]

Regarding the op, the story about Mulumba & Edem is hearsay. so shouldn't be used to praise or condemn Walters. The early returns on the 2014 draft have been decent and it's way too early to judge 2015. Writing Richards off after an injury plagued half-season is nonsense.

 

The Walker signing is the first moment of real worry for me about Walters. Recruiting on defense has been decent, but we haven't found much of anything on offense yet.

[iso_55]

Well yeah, I would hope the GM would have say on who is brought in and who isn't. It's a tandem of the GM with his scouting department. 

 

I also loathe Jim Barker as a person and as a coach and he still makes some questionable moves (Dave Stalah *cough*) but he brings in a lot of young and young-ish American talent. 

I'd have liked to see Barker here. Dave Braley has handicapped Barker with budget cuts. I think he'll do very well with MLSE as the new team owners after this season.

[AKAChip]

 

 

The Walker signing is the first moment of real worry for me about Walters. Recruiting on defense has been decent, but we haven't found much of anything on offense yet.

 

Signing Romby Bryant didn't worry you even a tad?

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

Hurl as a starting MLB should not be considered a "hit".  He is awfull.

 

Here is a list of all of the players on Defence that have more tackles than him:

 

LB Bass (48)

DB Johnson (34)

DB/LB Randle (33)

DE Westerman (32)

DB Washington (32)

 

Hurl is tied with Adams for 6th on the team with 28.  That's an average of 3 per game.  For a middle linebacer, that's not good. He is constantly over-running the play or he is just lost in space. He should not be starting.

Honestly, Hurl wasn't good for the first game or 2 but he's been better recently, I think peoples expectations for him are too high, he's not the bighill or elomimian type, he's not the henoc type, If you actually watch him on the field, he's generally rushing the QB, It's how Hall is using him, he's not using him as what people would think of as your protypial MLB, he's using him more as a cowboy i suppose, a rover really, he's being used differently than how other MLB's are used, It's more scheme there, I don't think he's been that bad the last couple weeks. I'm honestly finding it hard to criticize the D when the O is last in the league in basically every category. 

 

I don't think using tackles is fair here... it's just a stat really. I'm not saying HURL is all world or anything but he's definitely not as bad as some people are making him out to be. He has a role and his role is different than that of your average MLB'r. 

 

 

I have been keeping an eye on Hurl for the last few games now and I can say with confidence that yes he has been that bad.  If you’re a MLB and you’re a rover, you should be making a lot more happen than he is.  The guy is almost never in the play.  He constantly over shoots plays or is just nowhere to be found. Some times the amount of tackles a LB gets in a game can be inflated and that’s why it’s not always the best way to assess a player, but that’s not the case here. In this case he’s not getting any tackles to inflate.

 

 

Nobody in the front 6 is a rover.  Hurl is almost always taking one of the three inside gaps in their base "Cowboy" defense.  Google "Gap Control."  It's not 1985.  MLB's don't chase the ball around the field.

[sweep the leg]

Not really. They were trying to add some experience. He wasn't as bad as most make him out to be. I wouldn't have signed him, but it wasn't a wtf moment to me.

[do or die]

The biggest problem with Kuale and Bryant was not signing them...but continuing to play them, after it became glaring obvious....that these guys were accomplishing nothing....

[JuranBoldenRules]

Import offensive tackle is another brutal spot.  Daniels is average, Tyler horrible, Lewis couldn't even get into a game.

[SPuDS]

Regarding the op, the story about Mulumba & Edem is hearsay. so shouldn't be used to praise or condemn Walters. The early returns on the 2014 draft have been decent and it's way too early to judge 2015. Writing Richards off after an injury plagued half-season is nonsense.

 

The Walker signing is the first moment of real worry for me about Walters. Recruiting on defense has been decent, but we haven't found much of anything on offense yet.

Yea that was the first big red flag for me.. Unless tyler thomas is hurt and walker was an emergency fill in... Bringing in him is a cause for concern.

[SPuDS]

Hurl as a starting MLB should not be considered a "hit".  He is awfull.

 

Here is a list of all of the players on Defence that have more tackles than him:

 

LB Bass (48)

DB Johnson (34)

DB/LB Randle (33)

DE Westerman (32)

DB Washington (32)

 

Hurl is tied with Adams for 6th on the team with 28.  That's an average of 3 per game.  For a middle linebacer, that's not good. He is constantly over-running the play or he is just lost in space. He should not be starting.

Honestly, Hurl wasn't good for the first game or 2 but he's been better recently, I think peoples expectations for him are too high, he's not the bighill or elomimian type, he's not the henoc type, If you actually watch him on the field, he's generally rushing the QB, It's how Hall is using him, he's not using him as what people would think of as your protypial MLB, he's using him more as a cowboy i suppose, a rover really, he's being used differently than how other MLB's are used, It's more scheme there, I don't think he's been that bad the last couple weeks. I'm honestly finding it hard to criticize the D when the O is last in the league in basically every category. 

 

I don't think using tackles is fair here... it's just a stat really. I'm not saying HURL is all world or anything but he's definitely not as bad as some people are making him out to be. He has a role and his role is different than that of your average MLB'r.

 

I have been keeping an eye on Hurl for the last few games now and I can say with confidence that yes he has been that bad.  If you’re a MLB and you’re a rover, you should be making a lot more happen than he is.  The guy is almost never in the play.  He constantly over shoots plays or is just nowhere to be found. Some times the amount of tackles a LB gets in a game can be inflated and that’s why it’s not always the best way to assess a player, but that’s not the case here. In this case he’s not getting any tackles to inflate.

 

Nobody in the front 6 is a rover.  Hurl is almost always taking one of the three inside gaps in their base "Cowboy" defense.  Google "Gap Control."  It's not 1985.  MLB's don't chase the ball around the field.

It is entertaining to watch people roast people when they dont really know whats going on tho, aint it?

Hurl hasnt been stellar but he has stepped up and played as asked of him.. If people move on from "hurl needs to be Simpson or muamba!" I think they will relax. Not all defenses are built the same..

[rebusrankin]

Edmonton: Shakir Bell, Dexter McCoil, John Ojo, Derel Walker, Willie Jefferson, Kendial Lawrence in 2014 and 2015. All new to the CFL.

[AKAChip]

Edmonton: Shakir Bell, Dexter McCoil, John Ojo, Derel Walker, Willie Jefferson, Kendial Lawrence in 2014 and 2015. All new to the CFL.

 

Add James Franklin to that list too. The worst part is that aside from Bell, the other 5 look to be great players.

[rebusrankin]

Hamilton is a great list too but you have to go back to 2013.

[Captain Blue]

I think Kyle Walters might be the biggest problem for this team right now. I'm sure many will point to Bellefeuille or even O'Shea, but the fact that we have gaping holes at so many roster spots falls to him. There is no head coach or offensive coordinator that is going to look good with Marve or Brohm at QB, and certainly not behind some of the OL we're playing.

 

Basically, I think Walters "hit" on his QB and HC, but struggles with most of the other job. Canadian depth has improved but the bar was also set low. His American scouting is awful, and free agency is hit and miss. In comparison, I think Mack's biggest flaws were selecting head coaches and finding a long term answer at QB. His American scouting was solid, but his Canadian work was poor. Ironically, I think they both have created one-half of a good football team but never a whole one.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have seen what Mack could have done if Willy was here. 

[Blueandgold]

Mack had the opportunity to bring in a guy like Mike Reilly and didn't do it. Mack was absolutely terrible and let's not pretend that there was any way that he could've been good.

[17to85]

Mack had the opportunity to bring in a guy like Mike Reilly and didn't do it. Mack was absolutely terrible and let's not pretend that there was any way that he could've been good.

Did he really? He had the chance to pay a premium for an expiring contract without even the chance to talk to the guy first. Edmonton go the chance to talk to him I believe, and they signed him almost instantly after the trade was made. All signs point to Reilly wanting to go to Edmonton and Buono being Buono and trying to grift another GM into a bad trade. 

[17to85]

 

 

Thanks for the post it was very well thought out and worded, I can't argue with much of it, I agree one of Walters weakness is lack of solid WRs brought in however I would argue we don't know if Marcel B. passed on a few that could have actually helped us after all it was this coaching staff that decided A. Kelly was no good and benched him at a time when Moore was out leaving us very thin and putting egos ahead of the good of the team... We could still use a big target like Kelly he may not have been fast but he was a big target and had great hands...So sometimes the GMs can bring in the best players they want but if the coaches don't like them because the "don't fit the system" not much a GM can do about that. If we look at Allen at MLB he probably would have been our best option but the Bombers decided to go with Hurl ( Big Mistake )

I do think Hurl is an ok player but is the worst MLB in the CFL by a big margin, he is averaging 3 tackles a game and some will say that is because of his roll but I have seen many tackles he could have made if he had more speed agility or aggression ( he is lacking all 3 IMO ) but he will make the tackle if someone come directly at him...

 

So for me while Walters needs to improve in many areas I like that he is constantly trying to improve the roster, I do agree we should be picking the best player regardless of position and Kyle needs to learn that from the Calgary model...

 

At the same time I would love it if you take a long hard look at the real problem on the team its the coaching not the GM IMO...

Except that Kelly was a retread. He washed out of Hamilton and the league until the Bombers gave him another shot. I believe he was one of Bellefeuilles guys from Hamilton and he wasn't good enough there, why did we think he was going to be good enough here? We sure could use a big target on the sidelines, but more along the lines of Chris Matthews (who Mack dug up out of nowhere) as opposed to Aaron Kelly who was not good enough for the CFL once before the bombers went dumpster diving. Veltung is the only receiver this regime has actually recruited from the states that has even looked like he could play for us. I'd argue that Kelly is the exact opposite situation you describe. A case where the coach brought in someone he liked and stubbornly stuck with him despite the player not being good enough. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Kelly was worth keeping he was too slow I am just saying he was important to the Bombers last year and contributed greatly to at less 3 of the 6 wins he was involved in.

He was benched for the last 4 or so games, what I am saying is the Bombers made a coaching mistake to put their Egos ahead of the team when they benched Kelly and they started playing rookies that have since been cut. My entire point is that I agree Walters needs to improve but when you give a good player to a bad coach what do you get ? I liked Marcel B. at first but I have grown to have no faith in anything he does, I think he is simply over his head and just a stubborn as MOS...

So to me we should be focusing on the real problem not Walters but the Coaching in particular our OC , ST and OL coaches are simply not good enough...IMO...

 

I think you missed the point, the entire point was Kelly was never good enough to be starting but he was cause he had a relationship with Bellefeuille. If Walters recruiting was up to par Kelly never would have been on the opening game roster and a few big catches here and there doesn't change that he was a pretty terrible player. 

[pigseye]

I think Kyle Walters might be the biggest problem for this team right now. I'm sure many will point to Bellefeuille or even O'Shea, but the fact that we have gaping holes at so many roster spots falls to him. There is no head coach or offensive coordinator that is going to look good with Marve or Brohm at QB, and certainly not behind some of the OL we're playing.

 

Basically, I think Walters "hit" on his QB and HC, but struggles with most of the other job. Canadian depth has improved but the bar was also set low. His American scouting is awful, and free agency is hit and miss. In comparison, I think Mack's biggest flaws were selecting head coaches and finding a long term answer at QB. His American scouting was solid, but his Canadian work was poor. Ironically, I think they both have created one-half of a good football team but never a whole one.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have seen what Mack could have done if Willy was here. 

 

And you would be partly right but, the defense with those same Walters stiffs has been coming around, why is that? coaching, gelling, perhaps both. So what is the offense's excuse?

[gbill2004]

Mack had the opportunity to bring in a guy like Mike Reilly and didn't do it. Mack was absolutely terrible and let's not pretend that there was any way that he could've been good.

If you recall, Wally wanted our first rounder for the rights to talk to Reilly, when it was already rumored he was going to sign with Edmonton.

[iso_55]

So, we sign a retread running back in Walker who is doing his cross Canada CFL tour by signing with multiple teams & 2 shitty qbs. And we really think we can sweep the Riders let alone win one game? Especially after the regime change in Saskatchewan. Good luck with that. The Riders will be fired up...

[Blueandgold]

 

Mack had the opportunity to bring in a guy like Mike Reilly and didn't do it. Mack was absolutely terrible and let's not pretend that there was any way that he could've been good.

If you recall, Wally wanted our first rounder for the rights to talk to Reilly, when it was already rumored he was going to sign with Edmonton.

 

Reilly has said time and time again that he would've considered signing with the Bombers - Mack just never made a play for him.

[Goalie]

I'm wondering if the scouts did bring in some talent to camp but maybe our OC and DC who I'd imagine would have a large say In who sticks and doesn't just didn't give any of them a real chance.

[dmillerywg]

 

 

 

Thanks for the post it was very well thought out and worded, I can't argue with much of it, I agree one of Walters weakness is lack of solid WRs brought in however I would argue we don't know if Marcel B. passed on a few that could have actually helped us after all it was this coaching staff that decided A. Kelly was no good and benched him at a time when Moore was out leaving us very thin and putting egos ahead of the good of the team... We could still use a big target like Kelly he may not have been fast but he was a big target and had great hands...So sometimes the GMs can bring in the best players they want but if the coaches don't like them because the "don't fit the system" not much a GM can do about that. If we look at Allen at MLB he probably would have been our best option but the Bombers decided to go with Hurl ( Big Mistake )

I do think Hurl is an ok player but is the worst MLB in the CFL by a big margin, he is averaging 3 tackles a game and some will say that is because of his roll but I have seen many tackles he could have made if he had more speed agility or aggression ( he is lacking all 3 IMO ) but he will make the tackle if someone come directly at him...

 

So for me while Walters needs to improve in many areas I like that he is constantly trying to improve the roster, I do agree we should be picking the best player regardless of position and Kyle needs to learn that from the Calgary model...

 

At the same time I would love it if you take a long hard look at the real problem on the team its the coaching not the GM IMO...

Except that Kelly was a retread. He washed out of Hamilton and the league until the Bombers gave him another shot. I believe he was one of Bellefeuilles guys from Hamilton and he wasn't good enough there, why did we think he was going to be good enough here? We sure could use a big target on the sidelines, but more along the lines of Chris Matthews (who Mack dug up out of nowhere) as opposed to Aaron Kelly who was not good enough for the CFL once before the bombers went dumpster diving. Veltung is the only receiver this regime has actually recruited from the states that has even looked like he could play for us. I'd argue that Kelly is the exact opposite situation you describe. A case where the coach brought in someone he liked and stubbornly stuck with him despite the player not being good enough. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Kelly was worth keeping he was too slow I am just saying he was important to the Bombers last year and contributed greatly to at less 3 of the 6 wins he was involved in.

He was benched for the last 4 or so games, what I am saying is the Bombers made a coaching mistake to put their Egos ahead of the team when they benched Kelly and they started playing rookies that have since been cut. My entire point is that I agree Walters needs to improve but when you give a good player to a bad coach what do you get ? I liked Marcel B. at first but I have grown to have no faith in anything he does, I think he is simply over his head and just a stubborn as MOS...

So to me we should be focusing on the real problem not Walters but the Coaching in particular our OC , ST and OL coaches are simply not good enough...IMO...

 

I think you missed the point, the entire point was Kelly was never good enough to be starting but he was cause he had a relationship with Bellefeuille. If Walters recruiting was up to par Kelly never would have been on the opening game roster and a few big catches here and there doesn't change that he was a pretty terrible player. 

 

Yes I understand that the relationship with MB is why we got A. Kelly I get that and I also get that the Bombers haven't had a Big receiver since and he is still much better than Gordon is at this point in his career and could be a good 4th WR but is also speaks to the fact that the Bombers have done a terrible job finding WRs under Walters watch...

[17to85]

he wasn't good at any point and Darvin Adams is a better option. Kelly had no business being on the roster at all. Stop trying to make like he was good. He wasn't even better than Romby Bryant.