2015-2016 training camp

[The Unknown Poster]

Mario was so good he could take nights off and still be the greatest hockey player that ever loved.

I officially rank then 1.Mario 2. Wayne. The rest is just the rest.

Great players don't take many nights off....

Gretzky is head and shoulders above everyone else...he almost averaged 2 points per game during his career....think about that for a minute.

I am not a huge Gretzky fan and hated the whiner when he played. Doesn't take away from what he did though.

Mario averaged the same. In fact Mario was over 2 points per game until he hung on a bit long near the end because the pens needed him

Mario would have broke Wayne's points in a season record and maybe goals too. Cancer and a serious back injury struck him down. Over all Wayne was greater. But Mario had more God given talent. Had he been healthy and played a full career, yikes.

[Brandon]

Based on NHL 94 .. lemieux had better stats lol

[Ducky]

Lemieux 915 games and 1.883 points per game.

Gretzky 1487 games and 1.921 points per game.

Lemieux would have had to play over 600 more games and keep his points per game up to catch Gretzky.

 

Debating this in a 2015 training camp thread..............

[bigg jay]

Given the fact that Lemieux was 6'4 235lbs vs Wayne's 6"0 185 lbs, he should have the stats advantage.  If we set aside physical attributes and just look at pure skill, Wayne takes it (imo).

 

I don't buy into the "if Mario had been healthy" argument because that is a part of sports. Bobby Orr had his career cut short due to injuries so did Eric Lindros... it happens.  It's not what you could have done, it's what you did.

 

People also talk about Gretzky having better players around him but if you look at it closer, they had comparable teammates.  They both played with a bunch of future hall of famers (Wayne had 5 & Mario had 5 with 2 more still to come in Jagr & Mark Recchi) so that argument doesn't really fly.  

[HardCoreBlue]

Given the fact that Lemieux was 6'4 235lbs vs Wayne's 6"0 185 lbs, he should have the stats advantage.  If we set aside physical attributes and just look at pure skill, Wayne takes it (imo).

 

I don't buy into the "if Mario had been healthy" argument because that is a part of sports. Bobby Orr had his career cut short due to injuries so did Eric Lindros... it happens.  It's not what you could have done, it's what you did.

 

People also talk about Gretzky having better players around him but if you look at it closer, they had comparable teammates.  They both played with a bunch of future hall of famers (Wayne had 5 & Mario had 5 with 2 more still to come in Jagr & Mark Recchi) so that argument doesn't really fly.  

Not to mention the fact that both Gretzky and Lemieux made players around them better. I probably would have scored thirty myself if I had these guys banking it off head. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

[HardCoreBlue]

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

Nope. Mario could have been but wasn't.

Can't label a player most special player based on what-if arguments.

[Ducky]

What about Gretzky's last couple of years?

He barely scored 1.0 ppg over the last 5 years.....

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

Nope. Mario could have been but wasn't.

Can't label a player most special player based on what-if arguments.

 

Hmmm...how about he was the most awe-inspiring player of all time (or at least his generation).  Just ridiculous talent.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Gretzky had a couple of early 80's years to pad his stats. Defence, what defence.

[bigg jay]

I didn't say size dictated skill, but it is an a great attribute to have.  You don't think if all else is equal, having 4 inches & 50 lbs is an advantage?  I think overall they are very close, Wayne with a slight advantage in skill that gets evened out when you factor in the size Lemieux had.  He was physically able to do things Wayne couldn't.

 

Mario only comes in around 2800 point if he maintains that 2.0 PPG. Just like Mario, Gretzky playing as long as he did hurt his average.  The last 7 years of his career his PPG average was only 1.25.

[bigg jay]

Here's a pretty good analysis on the Gretzky/Lemieux debate.

 

http://hockeypyramid.blogspot.ca/2013/12/the-great-debate-gretzky-vs-lemieux.html

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

Nope. Mario could have been but wasn't.

Can't label a player most special player based on what-if arguments.

 

Hmmm...how about he was the most awe-inspiring player of all time (or at least his generation).  Just ridiculous talent.

 

Keep trying, Gretzky claimed that one as well, regardless of generation. :-)

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

Nope. Mario could have been but wasn't.

Can't label a player most special player based on what-if arguments.

 

Hmmm...how about he was the most awe-inspiring player of all time (or at least his generation).  Just ridiculous talent.

 

Keep trying, Gretzky claimed that one as well, regardless of generation. :-)

 

Not to me, he didnt.

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

 

 

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

Nope. Mario could have been but wasn't.

Can't label a player most special player based on what-if arguments.

 

Hmmm...how about he was the most awe-inspiring player of all time (or at least his generation).  Just ridiculous talent.

 

Keep trying, Gretzky claimed that one as well, regardless of generation. :-)

 

Not to me, he didnt.

 

Fair enough, I can't give you a hard time on this, we all have our favorites.

I once tried, with my Winnipeg Jet Bias in full use, to argue with some Oiler fans that my all time favorite Jet, Thomas Steen, was a better passer/playmaker in traffic than Gretzky. I didn't get any takers.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

 

 

Size doesnt dictate skill.

 

If Mario played the same amount of games as Wayne, he comes in at 2800 points.  But Mario would likely have had a higher PPG since he retired with over 2 points per game.  His PPG lowered when he hung on too long to help sell tickets in Pittsburgh.

 

And while you cant discount injuries, we're not talking about the usual injuries.  Mario was struck down by cancer and a debilliating back injury.  Some nights, he could barely stand and would score five points.

 

Mario was the most special player of all time.

 

Had he not had the crazy back injury and had not retired early, perhaps he doesnt out score Wayne over a career, but he probably takes the points in one season record and maybe the goals in one season record.  And that would juice his legacy a bit more.

 

Both are great.  Wayne had the greater career.  I just think if Mario had not had two crazy health issues, he ends up a lot more likely to be considered by many to be the most talented player of all time.

Nope. Mario could have been but wasn't.

Can't label a player most special player based on what-if arguments.

 

Hmmm...how about he was the most awe-inspiring player of all time (or at least his generation).  Just ridiculous talent.

 

Keep trying, Gretzky claimed that one as well, regardless of generation. :-)

 

Not to me, he didnt.

 

Fair enough, I can't give you a hard time on this, we all have our favorites.

I once tried, with my Winnipeg Jet Bias in full use, to argue with some Oiler fans that my all time favorite Jet, Thomas Steen, was a better passer/playmaker in traffic than Gretzky. I didn't get any takers.

 

I once argued that Brett Hull was better than Wayne.  But i was trying to say he was better *at that time* but still, I was laughed out of the room.  It happens.  lol