Pat Tracy Fired

[TBURGESS]

Mike's unfortunately been the smirking not deadly type. If he was winning 2 out of 3 games instead of losing 2 out of 3 games, no one would really complain about it. In fact, he'd be some type of saviour around here even if he didn't win the cup.

[Guest J5V]

The real cowards and the real problem with the Winnipeg Football Club is the BOD. The present crop includes:

 

Brock Bulbuck, Chair, Jeff Martin, Vice Chair, Bill Watchorn, Past Chair, Dayna Spiring, Corporate Secretary, Ossama A. AbouZeid, David Asper, Vincent Barletta, Bob Cameron, Marnie Strath, Bill Baines, Chris Lorenc, Jamie Wilson, Kenny Boyce.

 

You can check them out here: http://www.bluebombers.com/board-of-directors

 

These are all business people and almost none of them know anything about football. Bob Cameron is the one football-related figure but he is just a token. He is also a businessman.

 

Their role is (from the website) "to consider and collaborate with management on the development of a strategic plan for the business and to oversee its implementation".

 

Further, "The board hires the President and CEO and this is the only employee who reports directly to the Board. The running of the business is delegated to the President and CEO whose performance is formally evaluated annually by the Board.

 

So you can see very quickly that their only real interest is the running of the business. They have no stake or cause for concern as regards winning and/or losing and worse, they have delegated those responsibilities to the President and CEO. So even Wade Miller is not responsible for the quality of the product on the field, only in the business side of things.

 

Who cares about winning then? Walters? O'Shea? That is hard to believe considering the people they have brought in and the product they have produced over the past two years. Nope, Walters and O'Shea care about pleasing Miller, and Miller cares about pleasing the BOD, and all the BODs care about is the business, not winning or losing. BTW, we have a similar problem here in Toronto with the Leafs. Win or lose, the hockey team is successful. There is no incentive to win and hence, they don't, they just make money, and gobs of it. 

 

The only people that truly care about winning and losing are the fans, and the fans are hooped because they have absolutely no one's feet they can hold in the fire about why this team is so awful. Mike O'Shea is little more than a mouthpiece for Walters and Walters for Miller. Miller won't fire Walters as long as the team is making money and with the Grey Cup here this year, they will make money, so who really cares if this team is successful or not? Miller will not fire Walters so Walters doesn't need to fire O'Shea or hold anyone really accountable. It's all about money and how much of it they can fleece from the fans and the good people of Manitoba. So far we've been very generous.

 

The sacrifice of Pat Tracey is little more than a morsel of human flesh to feed the gossip-starved media and judging by the somber tone of poor Mike O'Shea's PC and the opening remarks by Lawless calling O'Shea a "good guy" <sniff> I'd say it's working in all it's heart-tugging brilliance. At least it appears as if something was actually done today but was it? Really? 

 

Good luck Mr. Tracey. I'm sure you'll be seeing your pal MOS somewhere down the road, eventually, probably some time after MB is sacrificed. My bet is long after the cash cow of the Grey Cup has been milked dry. Conspicuous by their absence, of course, will be our Winnipeg Blue Bombers, but the good people in the new IGF center will be good sports and support a couple of good teams when they show up to crown a CFL champion on our turf. Then we can clean house to, y'know, sell more tickets. </rant>

[M.O.A.B.]

Lost in the news today, Kashawn Fraser was released also.

[Tracker]

Gawd, you'd think we ought to be able to score a couple of these free agents who could help us.

[bustamente]

I will be very interested to see what kind of crowd will show up to IGF if the bombers lose on saturday. Jets training camp will be in full swing ,it will colder out the rum hut will have lost it's appeal. Season ticket holders will not show up and IGF will look sparse yet they will announce a crowd of 27000 like they did for the last home game. I'm worried about this team and the way it's being run into the ground by people that think the bombers are there personal toy. Good Luck selling tickets next year if this crap doesn't get figured out soon. 

[Guest J5V]

I will be very interested to see what kind of crowd will show up to IGF if the bombers lose on saturday. Jets training camp will be in full swing ,it will colder out the rum hut will have lost it's appeal. Season ticket holders will not show up and IGF will look sparse yet they will announce a crowd of 27000 like they did for the last home game. I'm worried about this team and the way it's being run into the ground by people that think the bombers are there personal toy. Good Luck selling tickets next year if this crap doesn't get figured out soon. 

The solution I was hinting at was -- hit them in the pocketbook. Stop supporting an awful football team with your hard-earned dollars. That's the only thing they will understand. As long as we keep handing over our money, where is the incentive to improve the product on the field?

[Goalie]

Lol at these crazy lunatic posts. Seriously

[Brandon]

I think the fact that the Grey Cup has sold nothing is more then enough of a "jab" towards the organization.       Why would anyone want the team to go bankrupt?       I much prefer the fans being vocal then being cheapos. 

[WBBFanWest]

The real cowards and the real problem with the Winnipeg Football Club is the BOD. The present crop includes:

 

Brock Bulbuck, Chair, Jeff Martin, Vice Chair, Bill Watchorn, Past Chair, Dayna Spiring, Corporate Secretary, Ossama A. AbouZeid, David Asper, Vincent Barletta, Bob Cameron, Marnie Strath, Bill Baines, Chris Lorenc, Jamie Wilson, Kenny Boyce.

 

You can check them out here: http://www.bluebombers.com/board-of-directors

 

These are all business people and almost none of them know anything about football. Bob Cameron is the one football-related figure but he is just a token. He is also a businessman.

 

Their role is (from the website) "to consider and collaborate with management on the development of a strategic plan for the business and to oversee its implementation".

 

Further, "The board hires the President and CEO and this is the only employee who reports directly to the Board. The running of the business is delegated to the President and CEO whose performance is formally evaluated annually by the Board.

 

So you can see very quickly that their only real interest is the running of the business. They have no stake or cause for concern as regards winning and/or losing and worse, they have delegated those responsibilities to the President and CEO. So even Wade Miller is not responsible for the quality of the product on the field, only in the business side of things.

 

Who cares about winning then? Walters? O'Shea? That is hard to believe considering the people they have brought in and the product they have produced over the past two years. Nope, Walters and O'Shea care about pleasing Miller, and Miller cares about pleasing the BOD, and all the BODs care about is the business, not winning or losing. BTW, we have a similar problem here in Toronto with the Leafs. Win or lose, the hockey team is successful. There is no incentive to win and hence, they don't, they just make money, and gobs of it. 

 

The only people that truly care about winning and losing are the fans, and the fans are hooped because they have absolutely no one's feet they can hold in the fire about why this team is so awful. Mike O'Shea is little more than a mouthpiece for Walters and Walters for Miller. Miller won't fire Walters as long as the team is making money and with the Grey Cup here this year, they will make money, so who really cares if this team is successful or not? Miller will not fire Walters so Walters doesn't need to fire O'Shea or hold anyone really accountable. It's all about money and how much of it they can fleece from the fans and the good people of Manitoba. So far we've been very generous.

 

The sacrifice of Pat Tracey is little more than a morsel of human flesh to feed the gossip-starved media and judging by the somber tone of poor Mike O'Shea's PC and the opening remarks by Lawless calling O'Shea a "good guy" <sniff> I'd say it's working in all it's heart-tugging brilliance. At least it appears as if something was actually done today but was it? Really? 

 

Good luck Mr. Tracey. I'm sure you'll be seeing your pal MOS somewhere down the road, eventually, probably some time after MB is sacrificed. My bet is long after the cash cow of the Grey Cup has been milked dry. Conspicuous by their absence, of course, will be our Winnipeg Blue Bombers, but the good people in the new IGF center will be good sports and support a couple of good teams when they show up to crown a CFL champion on our turf. Then we can clean house to, y'know, sell more tickets. </rant>

A board of directors for any professional organization does not ever meddle in day to day affairs.  Do you think, for example, that the members of the board of directors for IBM are all computer experts and make the decisions to decide which products get developed and how to design them?  No.  They hire a CEO.  He doesn't do that stuff either.  He hires the experts that oversee the departments that do those things.  That's how businesses work. 

 

The Bombers board likely does care about the bottom line and making sure that bottom lines are being taken care of, in other words, profits.  But they also know that the Bombers are an entertainment business and nothing sells tickets and generates income better than success on the field.  They'll be asking the CEO what plans are in place to "increase productivity" (ie. win more) and if they aren't satisfied with his answers and steps are not being taken, then they will look at him.  Not the GM, not the coach, because the GM and HC do NOT answer directly to the board.  It will be left to the CEO to look at the GM and for the GM to look at the HC and his staff.  It's called a chain of command and it's used because it works.  So screaming about the BoD will do nothing because the on field product is not controlled by them at all, and it never will be.

 

Every year it seems we have two or three people who want to rage about the Board and demand that they get involved without understanding that that will never ever happen, nor should it.

[Rich]

 

The real cowards and the real problem with the Winnipeg Football Club is the BOD. The present crop includes:

 

Brock Bulbuck, Chair, Jeff Martin, Vice Chair, Bill Watchorn, Past Chair, Dayna Spiring, Corporate Secretary, Ossama A. AbouZeid, David Asper, Vincent Barletta, Bob Cameron, Marnie Strath, Bill Baines, Chris Lorenc, Jamie Wilson, Kenny Boyce.

 

You can check them out here: http://www.bluebombers.com/board-of-directors

 

These are all business people and almost none of them know anything about football. Bob Cameron is the one football-related figure but he is just a token. He is also a businessman.

 

Their role is (from the website) "to consider and collaborate with management on the development of a strategic plan for the business and to oversee its implementation".

 

Further, "The board hires the President and CEO and this is the only employee who reports directly to the Board. The running of the business is delegated to the President and CEO whose performance is formally evaluated annually by the Board.

 

So you can see very quickly that their only real interest is the running of the business. They have no stake or cause for concern as regards winning and/or losing and worse, they have delegated those responsibilities to the President and CEO. So even Wade Miller is not responsible for the quality of the product on the field, only in the business side of things.

 

Who cares about winning then? Walters? O'Shea? That is hard to believe considering the people they have brought in and the product they have produced over the past two years. Nope, Walters and O'Shea care about pleasing Miller, and Miller cares about pleasing the BOD, and all the BODs care about is the business, not winning or losing. BTW, we have a similar problem here in Toronto with the Leafs. Win or lose, the hockey team is successful. There is no incentive to win and hence, they don't, they just make money, and gobs of it. 

 

The only people that truly care about winning and losing are the fans, and the fans are hooped because they have absolutely no one's feet they can hold in the fire about why this team is so awful. Mike O'Shea is little more than a mouthpiece for Walters and Walters for Miller. Miller won't fire Walters as long as the team is making money and with the Grey Cup here this year, they will make money, so who really cares if this team is successful or not? Miller will not fire Walters so Walters doesn't need to fire O'Shea or hold anyone really accountable. It's all about money and how much of it they can fleece from the fans and the good people of Manitoba. So far we've been very generous.

 

The sacrifice of Pat Tracey is little more than a morsel of human flesh to feed the gossip-starved media and judging by the somber tone of poor Mike O'Shea's PC and the opening remarks by Lawless calling O'Shea a "good guy" <sniff> I'd say it's working in all it's heart-tugging brilliance. At least it appears as if something was actually done today but was it? Really? 

 

Good luck Mr. Tracey. I'm sure you'll be seeing your pal MOS somewhere down the road, eventually, probably some time after MB is sacrificed. My bet is long after the cash cow of the Grey Cup has been milked dry. Conspicuous by their absence, of course, will be our Winnipeg Blue Bombers, but the good people in the new IGF center will be good sports and support a couple of good teams when they show up to crown a CFL champion on our turf. Then we can clean house to, y'know, sell more tickets. </rant>

A board of directors for any professional organization does not ever meddle in day to day affairs.  Do you think, for example, that the members of the board of directors for IBM are all computer experts and make the decisions to decide which products get developed and how to design them?  No.  They hire a CEO.  He doesn't do that stuff either.  He hires the experts that oversee the departments that do those things.  That's how businesses work. 

 

The Bombers board likely does care about the bottom line and making sure that bottom lines are being taken care of, in other words, profits.  But they also know that the Bombers are an entertainment business and nothing sells tickets and generates income better than success on the field.  They'll be asking the CEO what plans are in place to "increase productivity" (ie. win more) and if they aren't satisfied with his answers and steps are not being taken, then they will look at him.  Not the GM, not the coach, because the GM and HC do NOT answer directly to the board.  It will be left to the CEO to look at the GM and for the GM to look at the HC and his staff.  It's called a chain of command and it's used because it works.  So screaming about the BoD will do nothing because the on field product is not controlled by them at all, and it never will be.

 

Every year it seems we have two or three people who want to rage about the Board and demand that they get involved without understanding that that will never ever happen, nor should it.

 

 

 

I agree with what you suggest on how a boards should be run  but I will put a few caveats in there.

 

When firing a coach with term left on his contract, the GM (Walters) would have to go to the CEO (Miller) who may need board approval because of the cost of the payout of firing the coach.

 

And while the board should not meddle in day-to-day operations of the club, The Blue Bomber board has shown in the past that they will meddle.  When Bauer left after the Mike Kelly season, it was the board who brought Mack in as GM and vice president of football operations.  At that point in time (2010) they put Mack in charge of football ops and put Jim Bell in as president.   Then in 2012, Bell was demoted to Vice President and COO and Buchko brought in as President in CEO, hailed as having the background to promote and sell the advertising and sponsorships needed heading into the new stadium.

 

Buchko, new to the job kept Mack as GM.  Then when Buchko went to the board to have Mac fired a year and a half into his tenure as CEO, the board decided Buchko had to go as well.   

 

So for the 2 years when Bell was president, they really segregated the duties of Bell and Mack to running the business side of the club and football ops, and I don't believe Mack really even reported to Bell.  

 

Then the board brings in Buchko as CEO (won't even talk about that being announced so close to the long term deal CJOB got on the clubs radio rights) and lets him inherit Mack as GM.  Not that I was a fan of Buchko, but he was given a bad deal. He inherited a GM that the BoD originally hired in his first year on the job, decided to keep him for that first year, then when he wanted to fire Mack a year and a half later, the BoD decided Buchko had to go as well. So Buchko never even got the chance to hire his own GM.

 

I'm not saying Buchko should have stayed, it seems to me he was in over his head, but he was another mistake made by the board.

 

So I agree that the BoD shouldn't meddle, but part of the problems with this club in the past 5 years is that they have meddled way too much.  Things are probably back on the course to where they should be with Wade in as CEO, but the board is a big reason this club is where it is today.  And when I've seen people rage against the board, it has mostly been for these reasons.

[WBBFanWest]

Well, the BoD can always make policies for the organization, especially in matters of money, so yes, they could put in place a requirement for board approval prior to releasing someone with X dollars or Y time remaining on a contract.  I wouldn't recommend that that sort of thing should come to the board for a decision, but it would be fair game to have to get the CEO's ok.  I mean, imagine if the Walters felt that O'Shea had lost the room and he needs to go now.  So he sends a request to the board through Miller to ask permission to fire O'Shea.  What if the board says no?  Now he's stuck with an employee that he doesn't want.  Secondarily, you can be sure that O'Shea will find out and maybe the press too.  Now you have a really tricky problem.  So I'd hope that the board would maintain a hand off approach for personnel matters, excluding the CEO position.

 

And in the matter of Mack being hired, the CEO had left, so by default the board has to hire the most senior operations manager.  That's not really that unusual.  Nor is splitting out the responsibilities of senior managers.  So it's fine for the board to say "Bell is in charge of business stuff, Mack is in charge of football ops and both will report to us."  A bit unwieldy, but  I've seen that done before, especially in times of transition like that.  Clearly they recognized the need for one person to have overall control and that's why they ended up hiring Buchko as CEO.  Whether they made the right hire is really not part of this discussion but clearly, the board later decided that they had erred and corrected that.

 

So nothing you have described is what I would call "meddling".  I understand that Bauer liked to meddle in the football ops stuff and that is very problematic and the board at the time should have make it clear to him that he should either knock it off or if he really felt that he could do the job better than the GM, then he should get rid of the GM and do the job himself.  For that the board should have stepped in.  maybe they did or maybe they didn't.  I really can't say.

[Goalie]

I think only Asper and Watchorn have been around for more than a couple years. Board has changed lots the last little while.

[Guest J5V]

No one is suggesting that we bankrupt the club. My point was that we might get the BOD 's attention if all the losing affected the bottom line. I don't think they much care as long as the $$$ is there and keeps coming in. 

 

Look at what they have put in place for us ...

 

Miller, a rookie at running a football club and unproven.

 

Walters, never been a GM before, not here, not anywhere. Also unproven.

 

Mike O'Shea, a rookie head coach, unproven.

 

Marcel Bellefeuille, failed as an OC everywhere he has been. Not even a has-been. A never-was. Unproven.

 

Pat Tracey, just fired as ST coach. Totally washed out here. Unproven.

 

Richie Hall, questionable hire but better than Etcheverry who was a total disaster. As yet, unproven.

 

I'll stop there but this looks like a Walmart list of cheap Chinese knock-offs! Where is the good stuff? The Bob Youngs, Hufnagels, Buonos, Austins, Steinauers, Wetenhalls, Popps, Calvillos, Desjardins, Hunts, Braleys, Stublers, Dickensons, Herveys, Rhodes, Jones, etc.?

 

Is this what the loyal fans of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers deserve after 25 years of misery? Wade Miller and the Keystone Cops? Please tell me it's not true. 

[17to85]

 

Richie Hall, questionable hire but better than Etcheverry who was a total disaster. As yet, unproven.

I am not going to get into the rest of it, but how in the hell was Hall a questionable hire and unproven? The man has been a defensive coordinator of note in the CFL for quite some time and he was even so highly regarded that he got a head coaching job. It didn't work out as a head coach, but he's still a solid defensive coordinator. I'm not his biggest fan as he's not as aggressive as I like in a DC, but to suggest he's unproven is ridiculous. You'd be hard pressed to get a more proven defensive coordinator. 

[WBBFanWest]

No one is suggesting that we bankrupt the club. My point was that we might get the BOD 's attention if all the losing affected the bottom line. I don't think they much care as long as the $$$ is there and keeps coming in. 

 

Look at what they have put in place for us ...

 

Miller, a rookie at running a football club and unproven.

 

Walters, never been a GM before, not here, not anywhere. Also unproven.

 

Mike O'Shea, a rookie head coach, unproven.

 

Marcel Bellefeuille, failed as an OC everywhere he has been. Not even a has-been. A never-was. Unproven.

 

Pat Tracey, just fired as ST coach. Totally washed out here. Unproven.

 

Richie Hall, questionable hire but better than Etcheverry who was a total disaster. As yet, unproven.

 

I'll stop there but this looks like a Walmart list of cheap Chinese knock-offs! Where is the good stuff? The Bob Youngs, Hufnagels, Buonos, Austins, Steinauers, Wetenhalls, Popps, Calvillos, Desjardins, Hunts, Braleys, Stublers, Dickensons, Herveys, Rhodes, Jones, etc.?

 

Is this what the loyal fans of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers deserve after 25 years of misery? Wade Miller and the Keystone Cops? Please tell me it's not true. 

So just so I know, how many times will you have to be told that the BoD had NOTHING to do with any of those hires except for Wade Miller?  

[Floyd]

We have more coaches and more scouting staff than ever - will take time to change the culture after two decades of scrimping

[iso_55]

 

No one is suggesting that we bankrupt the club. My point was that we might get the BOD 's attention if all the losing affected the bottom line. I don't think they much care as long as the $$$ is there and keeps coming in. 

 

Look at what they have put in place for us ...

 

Miller, a rookie at running a football club and unproven.

 

Walters, never been a GM before, not here, not anywhere. Also unproven.

 

Mike O'Shea, a rookie head coach, unproven.

 

Marcel Bellefeuille, failed as an OC everywhere he has been. Not even a has-been. A never-was. Unproven.

 

Pat Tracey, just fired as ST coach. Totally washed out here. Unproven.

 

Richie Hall, questionable hire but better than Etcheverry who was a total disaster. As yet, unproven.

 

I'll stop there but this looks like a Walmart list of cheap Chinese knock-offs! Where is the good stuff? The Bob Youngs, Hufnagels, Buonos, Austins, Steinauers, Wetenhalls, Popps, Calvillos, Desjardins, Hunts, Braleys, Stublers, Dickensons, Herveys, Rhodes, Jones, etc.?

 

Is this what the loyal fans of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers deserve after 25 years of misery? Wade Miller and the Keystone Cops? Please tell me it's not true. 

So just so I know, how many times will you have to be told that the BoD had NOTHING to do with any of those hires except for Wade Miller?  

 

Ultimately, the **** falls on the BOD if the underling hirings don't work out.

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

No one is suggesting that we bankrupt the club. My point was that we might get the BOD 's attention if all the losing affected the bottom line. I don't think they much care as long as the $$$ is there and keeps coming in. 

 

Look at what they have put in place for us ...

 

Miller, a rookie at running a football club and unproven.

 

Walters, never been a GM before, not here, not anywhere. Also unproven.

 

Mike O'Shea, a rookie head coach, unproven.

 

Marcel Bellefeuille, failed as an OC everywhere he has been. Not even a has-been. A never-was. Unproven.

 

Pat Tracey, just fired as ST coach. Totally washed out here. Unproven.

 

Richie Hall, questionable hire but better than Etcheverry who was a total disaster. As yet, unproven.

 

I'll stop there but this looks like a Walmart list of cheap Chinese knock-offs! Where is the good stuff? The Bob Youngs, Hufnagels, Buonos, Austins, Steinauers, Wetenhalls, Popps, Calvillos, Desjardins, Hunts, Braleys, Stublers, Dickensons, Herveys, Rhodes, Jones, etc.?

 

Is this what the loyal fans of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers deserve after 25 years of misery? Wade Miller and the Keystone Cops? Please tell me it's not true. 

So just so I know, how many times will you have to be told that the BoD had NOTHING to do with any of those hires except for Wade Miller?  

 

Ultimately, the **** falls on the BOD if the underling hirings don't work out.

 

I'm guessing you haven't been on a lot of boards.

[Floyd]

Bod does set the budgets... Bombers just don't have the cash for a hufnagel or trestman - stick with Walters and oshea - let the develop, spend on assts

[pigseye]

We have more coaches and more scouting staff than ever - will take time to change the culture after two decades of scrimping

We are getting there, which is about the only good thing to come out of this current regime, so we do need to give it time to bear fruit.

[Floyd]

if we land stubler, sir Vincent Rogers as rt, Craig butler as safety, etc... No one is complaining

Walters is trying but the rot is deep - I would've like a more exp gm but he's our best option, give him and osh three more years

[iso_55]

 

 

 

No one is suggesting that we bankrupt the club. My point was that we might get the BOD 's attention if all the losing affected the bottom line. I don't think they much care as long as the $$$ is there and keeps coming in. 

 

Look at what they have put in place for us ...

 

Miller, a rookie at running a football club and unproven.

 

Walters, never been a GM before, not here, not anywhere. Also unproven.

 

Mike O'Shea, a rookie head coach, unproven.

 

Marcel Bellefeuille, failed as an OC everywhere he has been. Not even a has-been. A never-was. Unproven.

 

Pat Tracey, just fired as ST coach. Totally washed out here. Unproven.

 

Richie Hall, questionable hire but better than Etcheverry who was a total disaster. As yet, unproven.

 

I'll stop there but this looks like a Walmart list of cheap Chinese knock-offs! Where is the good stuff? The Bob Youngs, Hufnagels, Buonos, Austins, Steinauers, Wetenhalls, Popps, Calvillos, Desjardins, Hunts, Braleys, Stublers, Dickensons, Herveys, Rhodes, Jones, etc.?

 

Is this what the loyal fans of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers deserve after 25 years of misery? Wade Miller and the Keystone Cops? Please tell me it's not true. 

So just so I know, how many times will you have to be told that the BoD had NOTHING to do with any of those hires except for Wade Miller?  

 

Ultimately, the **** falls on the BOD if the underling hirings don't work out.

 

I'm guessing you haven't been on a lot of boards.

 

I have experience on one here in Calgary. We did hire 3 head football coaches for 3 different community teams under the same organization when I was on that board over 3 years from 2004 thru 2006. I actually helped set up that very board as our first bantam team went from being an expansion team being run exclusively by the league that set it up to a team part of that league but acting independent of it decisions wise. Under the board, our organization grew from one bantam team with 34 kids (ages 13-15)  to 2 atom teams (ages 8-10), a pee wee team (ages 11 & 12) & a midget team (ages 15-17) with nearly 200 players.

[pigseye]

Nice work iso.

[DR. CFL]

Well it all starts at the top and has now filtered down.....if you are satisfied with that we are then witnessing the result.

[blitzmore]

Well it all starts at the top and has now filtered down.....if you are satisfied with that we are then witnessing the result.

You obviously have an axe to grind..you're posts are like a broken record!