No End Call - CFL confirms it was an incorrect call

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@BobIrvingCJOB: Glen Johnson tells CJOB Sunday sports show, ref who called bogus "no end" penalty vs bombers "forgot" that they did, in fact, have an end.

OK...everyone makes mistakes. I'm certainly not immune to them. However, why didn't they pick up the flag? His memory couldn't be that bad that he couldn't remember 5 seconds later that he did indeed acknowledge Adam's position on the line. This doesn't make sense.

Agreed. And I'd assume that Adams and/or O'Shea would have told the ref, "yes we did have an end...Darvin Adams, and you acknowledged it". Would that not jog his memory?

Or command centre could have called and said "pick it up idiots!"

No they couldn't and you know that.

Why? Why couldnt they? They all have ear buds. Johnson could have easily said "wtf you doing? Pick up flag and drop it again and say no infraction on the play". They follow along dont they?

 

Illegal procedure is a non-reviewable play so the Command Centre can't get involved. 

 

No one can order an official to pick up a flag. There was that game in 2011 between Montreal and the Bombers were an official threw a flag for defensive pass interference in the end zone against the Als. It was a terrible call and should have actually been offensive pass interference against Greg Carr. The officials huddled and tried to get the official who threw the flag to pick it up but he refused. He was fired shortly thereafter because of that call.

No.. I get that. What i meant is that the command centre is watching live. They must see things close to real time.. If they see a potentially game altering mistake by the officiating crew, wouldnt it be prudent to allow them to stop the error? Why wont they allow a situation like that to help fix these dumb mistakes...

 

If they can't then that should be on the agenda for next season.  Only one game going on at a time in the CFL so it wouldn't be difficult for the command centre to watch every play and be in full contact with the head official to help them out on the field.

[GCn20]

Officiating was as brutal as I've seen all year long. We got screwed. I don't think it was why we lost the game, but it sure as hell is why we didn't have a chance to win.

[Rich]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@BobIrvingCJOB: Glen Johnson tells CJOB Sunday sports show, ref who called bogus "no end" penalty vs bombers "forgot" that they did, in fact, have an end.

OK...everyone makes mistakes. I'm certainly not immune to them. However, why didn't they pick up the flag? His memory couldn't be that bad that he couldn't remember 5 seconds later that he did indeed acknowledge Adam's position on the line. This doesn't make sense.

Agreed. And I'd assume that Adams and/or O'Shea would have told the ref, "yes we did have an end...Darvin Adams, and you acknowledged it". Would that not jog his memory?

Or command centre could have called and said "pick it up idiots!"

No they couldn't and you know that.

Why? Why couldnt they? They all have ear buds. Johnson could have easily said "wtf you doing? Pick up flag and drop it again and say no infraction on the play". They follow along dont they?

 

Illegal procedure is a non-reviewable play so the Command Centre can't get involved. 

 

No one can order an official to pick up a flag. There was that game in 2011 between Montreal and the Bombers were an official threw a flag for defensive pass interference in the end zone against the Als. It was a terrible call and should have actually been offensive pass interference against Greg Carr. The officials huddled and tried to get the official who threw the flag to pick it up but he refused. He was fired shortly thereafter because of that call.

No.. I get that. What i meant is that the command centre is watching live. They must see things close to real time.. If they see a potentially game altering mistake by the officiating crew, wouldnt it be prudent to allow them to stop the error? Why wont they allow a situation like that to help fix these dumb mistakes...

 

 

Even if this were the case, I don't think it would have helped us.

 

The penalty over the PA was "No End".  This was the info they had to go on, not even a player number.  To expect the command centre to find the footage of all players and the correct camera angles of all the players lined up correctly in the time that they had isn't reasonable.

 

Even after plays they always review (like TDs and turnovers), there is a guy with a flag who tells the officials if the play is being reviewed.  When the flag goes up (or is it down), they can continue with the play.  Otherwise they wait.  You really want the CFL to do that on EVERY play?  It would slow down the game way too much and people would be complaining about that.

[Mike]

Everything needs to be open to a challenge by a head coach. Until the CFL gets their business together, there really is no alternative.

[The Unknown Poster]

This one seems so ludicrous though because it's not just a blown call by an official who made a mistake.  He signaled the player fine, then flagged him late.  Was he just being a malicious ****?  Is he intellectually challenged?  It cant be an honest mistake.  He couldnt have forgotten in the few seconds that passed.  Its either gross negligence gross misconduct or some personal issue between ref and player where the ref decided he was going to "get" the player.

[voodoochylde]

Everything needs to be open to a challenge by a head coach. Until the CFL gets their business together, there really is no alternative.

 

They can't get replays right at the best of time .. the last thing I want is MORE opportunity to go to replay .. game flow right now sucks enough as it is.

[Mike]

 

Everything needs to be open to a challenge by a head coach. Until the CFL gets their business together, there really is no alternative.

 

They can't get replays right at the best of time .. the last thing I want is MORE opportunity to go to replay .. game flow right now sucks enough as it is.

 

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

I suppose you're right though. But really, what alternative is there?

[TBURGESS]

The alternative is to realize that mistakes will be made and to live with the outcomes like we've always done in the past. The bad call cost us 5.5 yards and a first down. Other bad calls in the past have cost way more than that.

[Mike]

The alternative is to realize that mistakes will be made and to live with the outcomes like we've always done in the past. The bad call cost us 5.5 yards and a first down. Other bad calls in the past have cost way more than that.

 

Sorry. Not acceptable to me.

[M.O.A.B.]

Really sad that an outcome of a big game (for the Bombers) was decided by an absent-minded ref's boo-boo.

[TBURGESS]

 

The alternative is to realize that mistakes will be made and to live with the outcomes like we've always done in the past. The bad call cost us 5.5 yards and a first down. Other bad calls in the past have cost way more than that.

 

Sorry. Not acceptable to me.

 

Sorry, you're not being realistic. Everyone makes mistakes. No way around that.

[LeBird]

Everything needs to be open to a challenge by a head coach. Until the CFL gets their business together, there really is no alternative.

If we were able to challenge every call where it appears the refs had goofed it up we would need to bring a lunch to the game because of the length of the game. Not only do they make bad calls on what they think happened they also miss calls on things that happened that they did not see though at times they were just feet away. Example of this is receivers going offside.

 

Usually, if you fire a few guys for unacceptable performance the word gets around. 

[WBBFanWest]

The alternative is to realize that mistakes will be made and to live with the outcomes like we've always done in the past. The bad call cost us 5.5 yards and a first down. Other bad calls in the past have cost way more than that.

For me the issue is the way the bad call was made.  This was not one of those real time split-second decisions that referees have to make.  When a ref sees it one way and the video shows it another, I really don't have a problem with a mistake being made.  When you think about it, we ask referees to do a really tough job, one where mistakes are going to happen every game.  

 

This however, was something completely different.  This was a total brain cramp and was really inexcusable.  You indicate that the guy was good on the line and then seconds later, you forget?  That's not just bad, that's negligent stupidity.  That's "you have to face the media and apologize" level incompetence.  Remember that umpire, Jim Joyce, who made the bad call at the end of a Tigers - Indians game in 2010 that cost a young pitcher a perfect game?  It was a bad call, but unlike this one, was made in real time.  Joyce had the grace to man up and apologize publicly to the pitcher and the media for his actions.  No "Our referee made a mistake, we'll deal with it privately" release from the League officials.

 

Yes we need to be better as a team and overcome stuff.  The referees also need to get better and one of the ways you do that is through accountability, especially when someone makes an error as egregious as this one. 

[Mike]

 

 

 

Everything needs to be open to a challenge by a head coach. Until the CFL gets their business together, there really is no alternative.

If we were able to challenge every call where it appears the refs had goofed it up we would need to bring a lunch to the game because of the length of the game. Not only do they make bad calls on what they think happened they also miss calls on things that happened that they did not see though at times they were just feet away. Example of this is receivers going offside.

 

Usually, if you fire a few guys for unacceptable performance the word gets around. 

 

 

I don't really see how it would increase the length of a game at all. I'm not saying we arm coaches with more challenges. Just open up the scope of what is able to be challenged.

[Jpan85]

Takes the decision out of the coaches hand and have a replay official buzz the head ref when a close play happens and take a closer look. Its not that difficult.

[LeBird]

 

 

 

 

Everything needs to be open to a challenge by a head coach. Until the CFL gets their business together, there really is no alternative.

If we were able to challenge every call where it appears the refs had goofed it up we would need to bring a lunch to the game because of the length of the game. Not only do they make bad calls on what they think happened they also miss calls on things that happened that they did not see though at times they were just feet away. Example of this is receivers going offside.

 

Usually, if you fire a few guys for unacceptable performance the word gets around. 

 

 

I don't really see how it would increase the length of a game at all. I'm not saying we arm coaches with more challenges. Just open up the scope of what is able to be challenged.

 

Got ya

[OldSchoolBlue]

The CFL first of all needs to make a fundamental shift reduce the number of flags thrown. If an infraction has absolutely nothing to do with the play result, then either don't throw a flag, or pick it up after and announce that the infraction had no impact on the play. The number of mickey mouse calls is infuriating and are ruining the game.

 

When the only flags thrown are actual penalties that had an impact on the game, then it becomes much easier to review them.

[TBURGESS]

The refs need to get better for sure. To do that, we need to fund them better, get them better training and have a better path to being a CFL ref. Basically take it from a part time job to a full time one.

 

On the No End call, the line judge shouldn't have pointed while Adams was still in motion. He should have waited until Adams was set before giving his OK. Once the ref indicates Adams is on the line, Adams shouldn't be allowed to move. Simple to do. Simple to fix. Unfortunate that it had to happen in the first place. 

 

More challenges isn't the answer. Allowing the coaches to challenge this call wouldn't have resulted in a reversal IMO. The replay would have shown that Adams was off the line and would have said the ruling on the field was upheld. They needed the footage of the ref pointing while Adams was in motion and talking with the refs involved to decide that it wasn't the right call. There are more than enough stoppages of play already.

 

The idea that 'penalties that don't affect the play should not be called' is fatally flawed. It's not OK to cheat if it doesn't effect the play. It's not OK to grab a receiver if he's away from the play or to go offside if you don't get to the QB or if you don't get the ball thrown your way. It's not OK hold or clip or block below the belt just because it's away from the play. Most of the penalties are the players fault and are totally controllable by the players. 

[TrueBlue]

The refs need to get better for sure. To do that, we need to fund them better, get them better training and have a better path to being a CFL ref. Basically take it from a part time job to a full time one.

 

On the No End call, the line judge shouldn't have pointed while Adams was still in motion. He should have waited until Adams was set before giving his OK. Once the ref indicates Adams is on the line, Adams shouldn't be allowed to move. Simple to do. Simple to fix. Unfortunate that it had to happen in the first place. 

 

More challenges isn't the answer. Allowing the coaches to challenge this call wouldn't have resulted in a reversal IMO. The replay would have shown that Adams was off the line and would have said the ruling on the field was upheld. They needed the footage of the ref pointing while Adams was in motion and talking with the refs involved to decide that it wasn't the right call. There are more than enough stoppages of play already.

 

The idea that 'penalties that don't affect the play should not be called' is fatally flawed. It's not OK to cheat if it doesn't effect the play. It's not OK to grab a receiver if he's away from the play or to go offside if you don't get to the QB or if you don't get the ball thrown your way. It's not OK hold or clip or block below the belt just because it's away from the play. Most of the penalties are the players fault and are totally controllable by the players. 

 

But Adams is allowed the yard from the line of scrimmage. He CAN move.  Unless you're insinuating the rule should be changed? 

[Fatty Liver]

The refs need to get better for sure. To do that, we need to fund them better, get them better training and have a better path to being a CFL ref. Basically take it from a part time job to a full time one.

 

That's the crux of the matter, time for the CFL to invest some of their TSN money into training and employing professional officials.

[LeBird]

 

 

The alternative is to realize that mistakes will be made and to live with the outcomes like we've always done in the past. The bad call cost us 5.5 yards and a first down. Other bad calls in the past have cost way more than that.

 

Sorry. Not acceptable to me.

 

Sorry, you're not being realistic. Everyone makes mistakes. No way around that.

 

Since we all make mistakes and for that reason don't you think if a call is made that could potentially affect the outcome of a game the ref who is responsible would want that call confirmed?  Why would he make that call when the issue was a matter of perception and most importantly had absolutely no effect to the end result of the play? I know it's the rule but so are all the holding, illegal blocks and even roughing the passer that are never called. 

[TBURGESS]

 

The refs need to get better for sure. To do that, we need to fund them better, get them better training and have a better path to being a CFL ref. Basically take it from a part time job to a full time one.

 

On the No End call, the line judge shouldn't have pointed while Adams was still in motion. He should have waited until Adams was set before giving his OK. Once the ref indicates Adams is on the line, Adams shouldn't be allowed to move. Simple to do. Simple to fix. Unfortunate that it had to happen in the first place. 

 

More challenges isn't the answer. Allowing the coaches to challenge this call wouldn't have resulted in a reversal IMO. The replay would have shown that Adams was off the line and would have said the ruling on the field was upheld. They needed the footage of the ref pointing while Adams was in motion and talking with the refs involved to decide that it wasn't the right call. There are more than enough stoppages of play already.

 

The idea that 'penalties that don't affect the play should not be called' is fatally flawed. It's not OK to cheat if it doesn't effect the play. It's not OK to grab a receiver if he's away from the play or to go offside if you don't get to the QB or if you don't get the ball thrown your way. It's not OK hold or clip or block below the belt just because it's away from the play. Most of the penalties are the players fault and are totally controllable by the players. 

 

But Adams is allowed the yard from the line of scrimmage. He CAN move.  Unless you're insinuating the rule should be changed? 

 

No I'm insinuating that he moved off the LOS. He's more than a yard away from the line judge when the ball comes up and the LJ should be on the LOS to get the right angle.

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

The alternative is to realize that mistakes will be made and to live with the outcomes like we've always done in the past. The bad call cost us 5.5 yards and a first down. Other bad calls in the past have cost way more than that.

 

Sorry. Not acceptable to me.

 

Sorry, you're not being realistic. Everyone makes mistakes. No way around that.

 

Since we all make mistakes and for that reason don't you think if a call is made that could potentially affect the outcome of a game the ref who is responsible would want that call confirmed?  Why would he make that call when the issue was a matter of perception and most importantly had absolutely so effect to the end result of the play? I know it's the rule but so are all the holding, illegal blocks and even roughing the passer that are never called. 

 

All calls could potentially affect the outcome of the game. You'd have to confirm every call that was made and every call that wasn't made to see if A) it was the right call and  if it affected the play. That's simply unworkable. You have to trust the folks you hire, check their work after every game and correct the mistakes that are correctable.

[Zog]

 

 

The refs need to get better for sure. To do that, we need to fund them better, get them better training and have a better path to being a CFL ref. Basically take it from a part time job to a full time one.

 

On the No End call, the line judge shouldn't have pointed while Adams was still in motion. He should have waited until Adams was set before giving his OK. Once the ref indicates Adams is on the line, Adams shouldn't be allowed to move. Simple to do. Simple to fix. Unfortunate that it had to happen in the first place. 

 

More challenges isn't the answer. Allowing the coaches to challenge this call wouldn't have resulted in a reversal IMO. The replay would have shown that Adams was off the line and would have said the ruling on the field was upheld. They needed the footage of the ref pointing while Adams was in motion and talking with the refs involved to decide that it wasn't the right call. There are more than enough stoppages of play already.

 

The idea that 'penalties that don't affect the play should not be called' is fatally flawed. It's not OK to cheat if it doesn't effect the play. It's not OK to grab a receiver if he's away from the play or to go offside if you don't get to the QB or if you don't get the ball thrown your way. It's not OK hold or clip or block below the belt just because it's away from the play. Most of the penalties are the players fault and are totally controllable by the players. 

 

But Adams is allowed the yard from the line of scrimmage. He CAN move.  Unless you're insinuating the rule should be changed? 

 

No I'm insinuating that he moved off the LOS. He's more than a yard away from the line judge when the ball comes up and the LJ should be on the LOS to get the right angle.

 

 

In that case, why did the league say the incorrect call was made?

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

The refs need to get better for sure. To do that, we need to fund them better, get them better training and have a better path to being a CFL ref. Basically take it from a part time job to a full time one.

 

On the No End call, the line judge shouldn't have pointed while Adams was still in motion. He should have waited until Adams was set before giving his OK. Once the ref indicates Adams is on the line, Adams shouldn't be allowed to move. Simple to do. Simple to fix. Unfortunate that it had to happen in the first place. 

 

More challenges isn't the answer. Allowing the coaches to challenge this call wouldn't have resulted in a reversal IMO. The replay would have shown that Adams was off the line and would have said the ruling on the field was upheld. They needed the footage of the ref pointing while Adams was in motion and talking with the refs involved to decide that it wasn't the right call. There are more than enough stoppages of play already.

 

The idea that 'penalties that don't affect the play should not be called' is fatally flawed. It's not OK to cheat if it doesn't effect the play. It's not OK to grab a receiver if he's away from the play or to go offside if you don't get to the QB or if you don't get the ball thrown your way. It's not OK hold or clip or block below the belt just because it's away from the play. Most of the penalties are the players fault and are totally controllable by the players. 

 

But Adams is allowed the yard from the line of scrimmage. He CAN move.  Unless you're insinuating the rule should be changed? 

 

No I'm insinuating that he moved off the LOS. He's more than a yard away from the line judge when the ball comes up and the LJ should be on the LOS to get the right angle.

 

 

In that case, why did the league say the incorrect call was made?

 

Because the LJ pointed, which means Adams is onside. According to Glen Johnson, once that happens the LJ can't take it back.