HardCoreBlue Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 We are weak on the left side for sure... but do have some interesting prospects in the future like Kyle Connor... The Right Side is actually pretty strong, guys like Armia even, Lipon in a 4th line role, Roslovic i believe can play Center or the Right Side... Ladd is a slow starter, has been since he has been a JET really, comparing his numbers from the last several years, he's at the pace he normally is at this point... hard to believe I know but pretty much bang on to his point production after 18 games the last several years... I think the Jets making the playoffs last year has set expectations a little unreasonably high this year... Losing Frolik? Sucks but he's not the reason we are struggling, my friend said yeah 7 0 loss to Nashville, good thing they let Frolik go (he didn't want to be here) but... My response was basicallly, yup, instead of 7 0 it would have been 6 0. Jets as a team just look like they are lost, Maurice altered the system from last year a bit and needs to get back to what worked last year... The D is pinching too much, when they all do it, it's not on the player, it's on the system, the system is telling them to do that, could they pinch at better times? sure but... One player doesn't make a difference, altho i'd suspect the goaltending be awful isn't helping... if one position does make a difference, it's the goaltending... Hutch is 915 save percentage, not bad but not top of the league like last year for a stretch, Pav is 901.. that's ugly and back to his career average. I guess this is what happens when PAV has a career year last year, he has come back down to reality this year... the reality we are used to seeing from him, I'm not blaming Pav or Hutch, but... 901 save percentage by PAV is not good enough. If you're making this statement specifically in reference to Frolik, I agree with you somewhat in that I don't know how much of a significant difference maker he would be making for us right now.. But if you are generalizing as a whole suggesting one person/position other than goaltending doesn't make a difference than I don't agree. I'll take my man Buff as an example. It seems he individually makes a significant impact on both ends of the spectrum. When he's off, he's off and the team suffers as a result. When he's on, he's on and the team benefits. With Buff, it seems there is no middle ground. Sort of fits that you live and die by the sword or whatever that saying is.
The Unknown Poster Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Posted November 16, 2015 That's an interesting point, hardcoreblue. However, do you think Buff makes a difference because he's here as opposed to if he was traded? For example, we say Buff makes a difference both ways but if they traded him, they would have a plan to fill that hole and the team would, hopefully, come together/play better etc to make up for the loss of his talent. In that way, once he's gone we could look back and say "well, he was, at times, great but his loss hasnt meant a ton".
HardCoreBlue Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 That's an interesting point, hardcoreblue. However, do you think Buff makes a difference because he's here as opposed to if he was traded? For example, we say Buff makes a difference both ways but if they traded him, they would have a plan to fill that hole and the team would, hopefully, come together/play better etc to make up for the loss of his talent. In that way, once he's gone we could look back and say "well, he was, at times, great but his loss hasnt meant a ton". My position has always been with Buff is he's such a unique player that his skill set, his physicaility in a league of bigger players, the tone he sets on and off the ice will be very challenging to replace/match and if we don't sign him over the next 2-4 years I truly believe we will look back in that timeframe and say we wish we had him back. Unlike some here, as a keen observor I have not seen him regress and believe he still has some great years ahead of him. His pros outweigh his cons, that's how I look at it, not really a 'I'm right your wrong' approach to whether we retain him, more he's a package I strongly prefer as a Jet fan to have on my team, not on someone else's over the next few years if possible. That's my bias, my preference. The Unknown Poster 1
Goalie Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 I'll go back to last year with the Buff situation... Jets were very good without Buff in the lineup, Buff was actually suspended for the last what? 4 games of the year last year and we played our best damn hockey at that point... It makes you wonder maybe if the Jets rely on Buff too much, yeah he's good when he's good he's really good but when he's bad, he's really bad and the entire team suffers.
Goalie Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 The other thing is.... If the Jets win the stanley cup one day, Will Ladd or Buff be around? Because with Ladd, with Buff, we are a bubble team, they have made the playoffs once as a team with Buff and Ladd on it, just once... They were basically a .500 team for a long time or just above really.... Does trading Buff or Ladd or both... make us better? Short term? Probably not but in a year or 2 or 3... it probably does.
The Unknown Poster Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Posted November 16, 2015 That's an interesting point, hardcoreblue. However, do you think Buff makes a difference because he's here as opposed to if he was traded? For example, we say Buff makes a difference both ways but if they traded him, they would have a plan to fill that hole and the team would, hopefully, come together/play better etc to make up for the loss of his talent. In that way, once he's gone we could look back and say "well, he was, at times, great but his loss hasnt meant a ton". My position has always been with Buff is he's such a unique player that his skill set, his physicaility in a league of bigger players, the tone he sets on and off the ice will be very challenging to replace/match and if we don't sign him over the next 2-4 years I truly believe we will look back in that timeframe and say we wish we had him back. Unlike some here, as a keen observor I have not seen him regress and believe he still has some great years ahead of him. His pros outweigh his cons, that's how I look at it, not really a 'I'm right your wrong' approach to whether we retain him, more he's a package I strongly prefer as a Jet fan to have on my team, not on someone else's over the next few years if possible. That's my bias, my preference. I generally agree. I would love to keep Buff if it was a 3-4 year deal. But I see little reason why he'd accept that knowing he can do better on the open market. Unless he really loves Winnipeg! But Buff is one of those guys that needs to be managed, whether its his minutes, his D partners, moving him forward for a few games, finding ways to motivate him. In one way you could say thats ridiculous and as a millionaire athlete he should manage himself. But sometimes the most creative, most talented people are "disorganized" in life or mind or spirit and need extra managing to perform to their very best.
bb1 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 We having trouble scoring might be time to move Buff up again.Then we can dress Hardy and maybe bring up Harrison to be better defensively. Oh yeah and trade Burmi ass while he still might be worth something.
FrostyWinnipeg Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Lee Stempniak - 4g 10a in 17 games.
Goalie Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Lee Stempniak - 4g 10a in 17 games. Playing first line and pp minutes. Got a PTO. Context is important blitzmore 1
Ducky Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Rather give the young guys the time they need.
The Unknown Poster Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Posted November 17, 2015 How about Malkin for ???
Goalie Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 How about Malkin for ??? Trouba Scheif Lowry +++
The Unknown Poster Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Posted November 17, 2015 @NicholsOnHockey: Dreger: Cheveldayoff has been working the phones, trying to drum up interest. #NHLJets in the market for preferably top-6 forward.
Goalie Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 @NicholsOnHockey: Dreger: Cheveldayoff has been working the phones, trying to drum up interest. #NHLJets in the market for preferably top-6 forward. Buff Burmi probably being shopped. Maybe Ladd too. Let the B Schenn to Winnipeg speculation begin
The Unknown Poster Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Posted November 17, 2015 @NicholsOnHockey: Dreger: Cheveldayoff has been working the phones, trying to drum up interest. #NHLJets in the market for preferably top-6 forward. Buff Burmi probably being shopped. Maybe Ladd too. Let the B Schenn to Winnipeg speculation begin Yup, some more rumors of Philly and Winnipeg still talking. Dreger went on to report it was not an easy trade market and that nothing was happening. if they did land a top six, who in the current top six gets pushed down (or moved). Lets assume Ladd stays, just for gigs and shittles.
Goalie Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Buff Burmi to Philly for Schenn Sanheim or Provorov and a 1st. I'd make that deal. I'd even take a cap dump like Luke Schenn to make it happen Brandon Blue&Gold 1
Goalie Posted November 17, 2015 Report Posted November 17, 2015 Damn that didn't work well... Ladd Little Wheeler ?? Scheif Ehlers Perreault Lowry Stafford Who knows who is being shopped tho... Ladd? Buff? Burmi? Stafford even? Hard to say Apparently Enstrom is bring shopped. Interesting to see that. Gotta wonder if there are multiple trades being worked on. Enstrom for top 6 Buff or Ladd and Burmi for D man
The Unknown Poster Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Posted November 17, 2015 Damn that didn't work well... Ladd Little Wheeler ?? Scheif Ehlers Perreault Lowry Stafford Who knows who is being shopped tho... Ladd? Buff? Burmi? Stafford even? Hard to say Apparently Enstrom is bring shopped. Interesting to see that. Gotta wonder if there are multiple trades being worked on. Enstrom for top 6 Buff or Ladd and Burmi for D man is that a reliable source on Toby? I find that hard to believe. He's a good D and by far our best LHD. Saw on another forum the fancy stats have Toby and Buff in the top 20 or so of D-men in the league. Also interesting that Chevy is chasing a top six forward when the D seems to be the bigger problem.
Goalie Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 He's also the guy on the team getting paid the most and is probably 2 small 4 the west. Might get a good return. Call it a mini rebuild since with the current core they are a .500 team. I'm down with a rebuild
Ducky Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 Toby, Ladd (re-signed), Stuart and a 1st for B. Schenn, Simmonds and Provorov. Please don't bring L. Schenn here.
HardCoreBlue Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 He's also the guy on the team getting paid the most and is probably 2 small 4 the west. Might get a good return. Call it a mini rebuild since with the current core they are a .500 team. I'm down with a rebuild Just under 20 games into the season where we made the playoffs last year in a tough division and the suggestion is for a rebuild? Wow. Yes we can sometimes overestimate the talent of our current core foundation but we can also make the mistakes of underestimating it and/or misdiagnosing our current issues that plague this team.
Goalie Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 One season we barely got in and a few where it wasn't close
Goalie Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 Toby, Ladd (re-signed), Stuart and a 1st for B. Schenn, Simmonds and Provorov. Please don't bring L. Schenn here. Jets get screwed here. We are adding a first why. Toby plus Burmi probably gets close to that. Ladd re-signed gets more
Ducky Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 You are giving up age and a declining game plus a first for a RW in his prime signed to a VERY nice contract and a winger with really good D smarts and the 2nd best D man in the draft last year. A LHD at that.
HardCoreBlue Posted November 18, 2015 Report Posted November 18, 2015 One season we barely got in and a few where it wasn't close Just to use your Cheshire Cat's train of thought, I believe, with patience and appropriate tinkering, the Jets can and will trend upwards if we stay the course. That's how I hope my reality plays out.
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