Mack Coulda Had Ray or Burris

[Brandon]

Ray could dink and dunk to Simpson all night long and that would definitely stop the blitzes coming on every down.....

[Jacquie]

 

And here's the other side from Tillman: 

 

Edmonton GM Eric Tillman said he didn’t enter the off-season intent on trading Ray. However, he added the Argos’ dogged pursuit of the veteran quarterback resulted in a deal that Tillman believes makes the Eskimos younger and improves their Canadian content.

“They were very aggressive,” Tillman said. “We were not looking to trade Ricky and were very reluctant to do so.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/188531/edmonton-eskimos-qb-ricky-ray-traded-to-toronto/

 

So, it's a matter of believe what suits your fancy.

 

Could this be damage control by Tillman...after realizing how badly he screwed up?

 

That article is from the day the trade was announced. He didn't admit it may have been a mistake until months later. 

 

 

I don't believe we had a shot at Burris,  but Ray probably some truth.  But every report we have heard is that he was going to Toronto and really no one else had a shot.  Plus forget not all the conspiracy threads.

I might be remembering wrong but it seems to me that when that trade happened there was a lot of "Ray was on the block?" sentiment going around the CFL at the time so it seems unlikely that Tillman would have been shopping him around to everyone, the CFL can't keep secrets like that.

 

 

I agree. As well, both Tillman and Barker said it was Barker that initially called Tillman, not the other way round.

[Mr Dee]

 

 

Oh c'mon, Tait is now in the same class of pond scum as Friesen.

 

 

Oh how wrong you are.

I assume you're talking only about the R Ray information.

Did you notice how Tait had a story beyond this tidbit of info. And that he prefaced the t/bit with "consider it for what it's worth."

He didn't lead the reader to a conclusion, unlike Friesen would have done or like the OP did in this thread.

 

He teased us with 'sources' and some people bit hard.

[Mr Dee]

 

I agree. As well, both Tillman and Barker said it was Barker that initially called Tillman, not the other way round.

 

 

And this is how I recall it also.

[iso_55]

 

I think Ray would have been dead in the water here with our offensive line. Ray can't make plays with his legs or get away from the rush. So, a qb like Hank would probably find more success. And I'm using Hank as an example. Not saying Mack should have gone out & traded for him.

Ray had the shits of an o-line in Edmonton and did OK too you know. 

 

True & he's been banged up more than once on that same shoulder. He separated &/or  dislocated his throwing shoulder a couple of years back as I recall. 

[17to85]

 

 

I think Ray would have been dead in the water here with our offensive line. Ray can't make plays with his legs or get away from the rush. So, a qb like Hank would probably find more success. And I'm using Hank as an example. Not saying Mack should have gone out & traded for him.

Ray had the shits of an o-line in Edmonton and did OK too you know. 

 

True & he's been banged up more than once on that same shoulder. He separated &/or  dislocated his throwing shoulder a couple of years back as I recall. 

 

yeah he's taken a real beating especially in those last few years in Edmonton, not really unlike what happened to Khari Jones. 

[blitzmore]

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

 

I'm totally clued in to your negative attitude about EVERYTHING!

[DR. CFL]

I still remain unclear as to who is in the long line of experienced candidates for the GM job? I would also like to see everyone's job description as to the specific necessary qualifications to fill that job. So far it is basically a hope and a prayer on hear and no actually meat as to people's expectations.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

 

I'm totally clued in to your negative attitude about EVERYTHING!

 

That's the only argument you have??? You have no other comeback. Nice discussion on your part. The only comeback you have is I'm negative. Well, wash, rinse, repeat. Boo freaking hoo. Well, hit the ignore button then. Since all you want to do is get insulting because you've got nothing else to say well ... Can't help it if you make stupid comments.

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

 

I'm totally clued in to your negative attitude about EVERYTHING!

 

That's the only argument you have??? You have no other comeback. Nice discussion on your part. The only comeback you have is I'm negative. Well, wash, rinse, repeat. Boo freaking hoo. Well, hit the ignore button then. Since all you want to do is get insulting because you've got nothing else to say well ... Can't help it if you make stupid comments.

 

Nothing to discuss with you....you make ridiculous comments that it will take 5 to 10 years for our acting GM to amount ot anything. It's shouldn't be insulting when it's the truth. Truth hurts doesn't it?

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

 

I'm totally clued in to your negative attitude about EVERYTHING!

 

That's the only argument you have??? You have no other comeback. Nice discussion on your part. The only comeback you have is I'm negative. Well, wash, rinse, repeat. Boo freaking hoo. Well, hit the ignore button then. Since all you want to do is get insulting because you've got nothing else to say well ... Can't help it if you make stupid comments.

 

Nothing to discuss with you....you make ridiculous comments that it will take 5 to 10 years for our acting GM to amount ot anything. It's shouldn't be insulting when it's the truth. Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

No, talking to you does Kyle. Again, you have no comeback. You can't even argue your point. Do me a favor hit the ignore button.

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

 

I'm totally clued in to your negative attitude about EVERYTHING!

 

That's the only argument you have??? You have no other comeback. Nice discussion on your part. The only comeback you have is I'm negative. Well, wash, rinse, repeat. Boo freaking hoo. Well, hit the ignore button then. Since all you want to do is get insulting because you've got nothing else to say well ... Can't help it if you make stupid comments.

 

Nothing to discuss with you....you make ridiculous comments that it will take 5 to 10 years for our acting GM to amount ot anything. It's shouldn't be insulting when it's the truth. Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

No, talking to you does Kyle. Again, you have no comeback. You can't even argue your point. Do me a favor hit the ignore button.

 

Kyle???? I don't have to argue my point...I just said give the guy a break and let him develop....you're the one who said he wouldn't for 5 to 10 years like you really know that. Your shtick is that you just spout off without thinking what you're really saying. Ignore yourself!

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walters. Maybe in 5-10 years but not now.

That's ridiculous!

 

What's wrong about not wanting to make a guy GM who has half a season as an AGM and half a season as an interm GM?

 

The comment was in 5-10 years...what part of ridiculous don't you get? He's with us for the rest of the year, but we have people saying he will never make a good GM, and some saying only in 5-10 years like they really know that. Not! I say give the guy a break.

 

You keep harping about giving Walters a break. Have you not clued into the fact that's all the Bombers do but give their buddies a break by hiring them? Why do you think we keep losing? Because we hire inexperienced people into key coaching & management positions who think they know what they are doing but don't. And because they come cheap. Or are a friend of someone on the team like a coach or Board member so they get hired.

Our track record is hiring the friend of so & so. And the result is hiring inexperienced peopleis they come  in on the cheap coming in & are expensive on the way out as we are paying them to sit around teiddling their thumbs after they're fired. Mike Kelly was buds with Lyle Bauer. Joe Mack was friends with Joe Pop & Paul  Robson & look what happened? The hiring process was all about who you knew & not what you knew.

Most fans don't want Walters as our GM because he is inexperienced. Not because they don't like him or don't think he has a future with the team. They want someone with a winning track record at the helm for a change because the Bombers have shown in the past, rookies in that position don't work. Yeah, 5-10 years when Walters has the proper experience working under someone who  knows how to win. Not apprenticed for 6 months by Joe Mack. There's been personnel guys & assistant GMs in this league who have worked under people for a lot longer with success than 5-10 years.

 

I'm totally clued in to your negative attitude about EVERYTHING!

 

That's the only argument you have??? You have no other comeback. Nice discussion on your part. The only comeback you have is I'm negative. Well, wash, rinse, repeat. Boo freaking hoo. Well, hit the ignore button then. Since all you want to do is get insulting because you've got nothing else to say well ... Can't help it if you make stupid comments.

 

Nothing to discuss with you....you make ridiculous comments that it will take 5 to 10 years for our acting GM to amount ot anything. It's shouldn't be insulting when it's the truth. Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

No, talking to you does Kyle. Again, you have no comeback. You can't even argue your point. Do me a favor hit the ignore button.

 

Kyle???? I don't have to argue my point...I just said give the guy a break and let him develop....you're the one who said he wouldn't for 5 to 10 years like you really know that. Your shtick is that you just spout off without thinking what you're really saying. Ignore yourself!

 

Again, why should we give the guy the job with a half year's experience? I don't want to "develop"a new GM. I don't want a guy with zero experience learning on the job.  So spell it out for me Sherlock. Tell me & everyone else why he should be kept on as the permanent GM. I've told you why he shouldn't. I told you how long he should wait to get experience & I stand by that. I don't think spending a few years under someone with a winning pedigree is a bad thing. And I know others feel like I do. Tell us  exactly what Walter's done as the interim GM to be given the job permanently.  

[17to85]

why don't you two just get a room already? Really seems like kind of a petty and useless argument. 

[iso_55]

I have no idea why anyone would get upset about saying a young CFL exec should get more experience before he takes on the position of running a CFL team.

[blitzmore]

why don't you two just get a room already? Really seems like kind of a petty and useless argument. 

You're right 17...but no way I would ever want to room with him...end of it for me.

[iso_55]

 

why don't you two just get a room already? Really seems like kind of a petty and useless argument. 

You're right 17...but no way I would ever want to room with him...end of it for me.

 

Sure, start an argument then don't finish. Typical. Nothing to say. I gave you your chance for a rebuttal & you can't.

[Jacquie]

I have no idea why anyone would get upset about saying a young CFL exec should get more experience before he takes on the position of running a CFL team.

 

I don't think it was your saying a young executive should get experience but wanting to know why you think it would take another 5-10 years for Walters to have enough experience to be a GM. Hufnagel, Austin, Buono, Higgins, Popp and Barker are just a few examples of people who had coaching experience but little to no front office experience when they got their first GM job. And no I am not comparing Walters to those guys and I'm not even saying I think Walters should get the job. Just asking why 5-10 more years experience rather than say 3-4 more years?

[DR. CFL]

I think the length of time is arbitrary and actual issue is some element of experience. It goes back to what qualities, skill set and requirements to you set out for the position. No one seems to be able or want to actually set out their job description.

Someone please be objective and start with that.

[iso_55]

 

I have no idea why anyone would get upset about saying a young CFL exec should get more experience before he takes on the position of running a CFL team.

 

I don't think it was your saying a young executive should get experience but wanting to know why you think it would take another 5-10 years for Walters to have enough experience to be a GM. Hufnagel, Austin, Buono, Higgins, Popp and Barker are just a few examples of people who had coaching experience but little to no front office experience when they got their first GM job. And no I am not comparing Walters to those guys and I'm not even saying I think Walters should get the job. Just asking why 5-10 more years experience rather than say 3-4 more years?

 

Jacquie, here's the thing... Walters is a young guy in his mid 30's. He has very little experience as a CFL coach & has only a few months experience as an AGM. He needs seasoning & experience. But I daresay learning under Mack isn't the way to do it. He needs to work under someone who is a winner. I think a guy who has been an AGM for 5 years or so is ready to step up which is only an arbitrary number in my mind. In 10 years Walters will be in his mid 40's & could still work another 20 years after that in the CFL. Walters is just getting started in his career. .

[iso_55]

I still remain unclear as to who is in the long line of experienced candidates for the GM job? I would also like to see everyone's job description as to the specific necessary qualifications to fill that job. So far it is basically a hope and a prayer on hear and no actually meat as to people's expectations.

I can only hope Miller talks to Tom Higgins. Probably the most experienced guy out there with a proven track record. If Miller doesn't then he's wrong.

[Jacquie]

I have no idea why anyone would get upset about saying a young CFL exec should get more experience before he takes on the position of running a CFL team.

I don't think it was your saying a young executive should get experience but wanting to know why you think it would take another 5-10 years for Walters to have enough experience to be a GM. Hufnagel, Austin, Buono, Higgins, Popp and Barker are just a few examples of people who had coaching experience but little to no front office experience when they got their first GM job. And no I am not comparing Walters to those guys and I'm not even saying I think Walters should get the job. Just asking why 5-10 more years experience rather than say 3-4 more years?

Jacquie, here's the thing... Walters is a young guy in his mid 30's. He has very little experience as a CFL coach & has only a few months experience as an AGM. He needs seasoning & experience. But I daresay learning under Mack isn't the way to do it. He needs to work under someone who is a winner. I think a guy who has been an AGM for 5 years or so is ready to step up which is only an arbitrary number in my mind. In 10 years Walters will be in his mid 40's & could still work another 20 years after that in the CFL. Walters is just getting started in his career. .

Actually he turned 40 in July. Did you know that Walters and Austin both have the same amount of coaching experience (10 years). Austin has 3 years experience running a football program at the college level while Walters has 4 years. Yes I know Austin was running an Ivy League program and Walters a CIS program however I would think the biggest difference between running the two programs was budget. But then Walters also was our draft coordinator in addition to being a coach so shouldn't that count as some management experience too. Again I'm not saying that Walters should get the job. I just disagree with arbitrarily picking a number and saying this is when he'll be ready.

[The Unknown Poster]

Talent is more important than experience.