Canadian Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

Harper had a terrible recession where they were pressured into more deficit spending they intended and had the opposition got their way it would have been even more. 

[kelownabomberfan]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:13 PM, Jacquie said:

And yet Harper just left us with huge debt.

one of Harper's biggest mistakes was cutting the GST.  If he hadn't done that, the deficits would have been a lot lower.  Meanwhile, the NDP in Manitoba raised their sales tax and still ran massive deficits.  That's the difference, the NDP just spend and spend and spend, because they are beholden to their union masters.

[kelownabomberfan]

On 4/23/2016 at 5:43 PM, Mark H. said:

I just don't quite understand how you arrive at some of your conclusions. BC teachers are the fourth lowest paid teachers in Canada. If you compare the maximum salary for a teacher with 5 year degree, they make $20 000 less than the highest paid teachers (Alberta).

Their latest contract (2013 - 2019) includes two years of wage freezes. The total salary increase is 7.25%, which averages out to 1.2% annually.  That's a very low rate for a 6 year agreement.  

I don't see how any of that is unreasonable, nor do I understand why other unions would hate them, given that the teachers are paid significantly less than those in other provinces. 

I know exactly how I arrive at my conclusions.  It's actually incredibly simple, yet you are bringing in completely irrelevant commentary.   Who cares what BC teachers are paid now, my point was about the horrible back-room deal the NDP did in 1998 with the BCTF.  As for the BCTF being hated, you just have to do some googling.  It's also extremely easy to figure that out.  They are just so horribly selfish.  If you want to take this to PM I can give you more evidence.  

http://www.langleytimes.com/news/267094281.html

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I know exactly how I arrive at my conclusions.  It's actually incredibly simple, yet you are bringing in completely irrelevant commentary.   Who cares what BC teachers are paid now, my point was about the horrible back-room deal the NDP did in 1998 with the BCTF.  As for the BCTF being hated, you just have to do some googling.  It's also extremely easy to figure that out.  They are just so horribly selfish.  If you want to take this to PM I can give you more evidence.  

http://www.langleytimes.com/news/267094281.html

Lagging behind a neighbouring province by $20 000 is not something that just occurred recently. It would be the cumulative result of consistently lagging behind, through the terms of more than a few governments.

That 'back room deal' has now been stripped out of the contract, but the salary that was given up in exchange for it will never be recouped. 

If you don't think that's relevant, then I'll just agree to disagree and move on. 

 

[Jacquie]

12 hours ago, 17to85 said:

He also left them NAFTA and the gst which were powerful tools to gain more government revenue.

NAFTA has it good and bad points but it hasn't stopped the Americans from being stupid.

I also think there are a lot of people who would argue the GST was a good thing. 

[Jacquie]

8 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Harper had a terrible recession where they were pressured into more deficit spending they intended and had the opposition got their way it would have been even more. 

I find it amusing how the PCs get a pass because of a recession but other parties don't.

[Mark H.]

The GST is a fair tax because it is not applied to basic necessities and many businesses and farms are eligible for rebates. It's a consumption tax; if people don't like it they can choose to spend less. 

[rebusrankin]

3 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

I find it amusing how the PCs get a pass because of a recession but other parties don't.

That Mackenzie King did ok budget wise during the Depression.

[Mark H.]

7 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

one of Harper's biggest mistakes was cutting the GST.  If he hadn't done that, the deficits would have been a lot lower.  Meanwhile, the NDP in Manitoba raised their sales tax and still ran massive deficits.  That's the difference, the NDP just spend and spend and spend, because they are beholden to their union masters.

What I find most exasperating is the NDP claiming that they help low income people. They had 17 years to raise the income tax exemption but it still sits at $8000. Just bloody ridiculous. 

[rebusrankin]

12 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

What I find most exasperating is the NDP claiming that they help low income people. They had 17 years to raise the income tax exemption but it still sits at $8000. Just bloody ridiculous. 

You also pay the most taxes in Canada, if your income is $20,000, 30,000 or 40,000 in Manitoba.

[Jacquie]

delete

Edited April 25, 2016 by Jacquie

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

NAFTA has it good and bad points but it hasn't stopped the Americans from being stupid.

I also think there are a lot of people who would argue the GST was a good thing. 

We tend to villainize the US govt. for NAFTA but as with the TPP it is mostly the large multi-national corps. that benefit from these trade agreements.  US manufacturing has also been devastated since NAFTA was signed.

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

I find it amusing how the PCs get a pass because of a recession but other parties don't.

You seem to conveniently forget the threat of a coalition between the Libs, NDP & (spit) the BQ.

[Jacquie]

12 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

You seem to conveniently forget the threat of a coalition between the Libs, NDP & (spit) the BQ.

No I haven't forgotten but what doesn't that have to with spending during a recession. 

[Fraser]

6 hours ago, iso_55 said:

You seem to conveniently forget the threat of a coalition between the Libs, NDP & (spit) the BQ.

And I guess you forget  Harper running deficits  every year out of the recession when he had a majority? 

The guy was a terrible  financial  manager.  Only  budget  he balanced  was due to selling gm shares to try and put  some window dressing on a history  of terrible  financial  management. 

 

[17to85]

10 hours ago, Jacquie said:

NAFTA has it good and bad points but it hasn't stopped the Americans from being stupid.

I also think there are a lot of people who would argue the GST was a good thing. 

Whether they are good or bad for the people of our countries is up for debate but they are pretty universally recognized as being good ways to get more money into the governments hands. 

[kelownabomberfan]

11 hours ago, Jacquie said:

I find it amusing how the PCs get a pass because of a recession but other parties don't.

what other parties do you want to give a pass?  For what time periods?  Just curious.  You see bent on defending everyone else and trashing the PC's, so I am curious where you think people are being unfair here to your parties.

[kelownabomberfan]

16 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Lagging behind a neighbouring province by $20 000 is not something that just occurred recently. It would be the cumulative result of consistently lagging behind, through the terms of more than a few governments.

That 'back room deal' has now been stripped out of the contract, but the salary that was given up in exchange for it will never be recouped. 

If you don't think that's relevant, then I'll just agree to disagree and move on. 

 

There was no way for BC to keep up with Alberta's spending binge on their public service and we are so happy here in BC that our government was smart enough not to get sucked into that game.  When the BCTF made the foolish decision to go on strike here last year (the only union that went on strike, every one else settled) the teachers were holding up signs saying "Alberta teachers make 20% more" to which they were greeted continuously with "then move there if its so much better".   Seriously, why only compare BC wages to Alberta wages for teachers?  What about BC compared to Quebec?  Or Manitoba?  Or better yet - don't compare at all, and just accept your extremely generous salary, benefits and pension plan, and don't complain.  That's what taxpayers really want, in exchange for the cash that we pay into the education budget.  Just do your job, and educate our kids.  

There is no salary increase that could match the huge largesse that the NDP gave to the BCTF in 1998.   Giving unions the ability to decide how many teachers should be hired is the very definition of a conflict of interest.  The NDP deliberately abused the trust of taxpayers by offering it, and the BCTF showed they have no integrity by accepting it.  Which is one of the many reasons I don't trust the NDP, and I will never trust government unions.

[max power]

9 hours ago, Jacquie said:

No I haven't forgotten but what doesn't that have to with spending during a recession. 

Maybe you did forget then - the whole coalition fiasco was supposed to be have been because they were horrified that the Conservatives weren't doing nearly enough "stimulus spending" during the recession.  Eventually the Conservatives did increase their spending as a result of that, but not NEARLY to the level that all the other parties were demanding. 

Which is why it's been so ridiculous listening to people rip them for their deficits for the past couple years. If those same people had their way, the deficits would have been way bigger.

I mean, just look at the first Liberal budget. Yikes.

Of course, we all know the real reason for the coalition was because they removed the per-vote subsidy.  The only thing that could actually unite the left against the conservatives was, of course, a threat to the parties' free taxpayer money.

Edited April 25, 2016 by max power

[max power]

3 hours ago, Fraser said:

And I guess you forget  Harper running deficits  every year out of the recession when he had a majority? 

The guy was a terrible  financial  manager.  Only  budget  he balanced  was due to selling gm shares to try and put  some window dressing on a history  of terrible  financial  management. 

 

So how do you feel about Trudeau as a financial manager then?  Serious question - I apologize if you've already commented on that here.

[sweep the leg]

5 minutes ago, max power said:

Maybe you did forget then - the whole coalition fiasco was supposed to be have been because they were horrified that the Conservatives weren't doing nearly enough "stimulus spending" during the recession.  Eventually the Conservatives did increase their spending as a result of that, but not NEARLY to the level that all the other parties were demanding. 

Which is why it's been so ridiculous listening to people rip them for their deficits for the past couple years. If those same people had their way, the deficits would have been way bigger.

 

That would-be coalition shouldn't have been causing deficits for their majority Government years later.

[GCn20]

19 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

That would-be coalition shouldn't have been causing deficits for their majority Government years later.

True enough....and the vote has taken place on that. In October they were turfed and deservedly so. However, I find it amusing how people would try to use the federal CONS to defend the Manitoba NDP. At least the federal CONS spending came with tax cuts, and was nowhere even remotely close to the level of spending per taxpayer, of the Manitoba NDPs. The federal CONS got trounced for their deficits, among other things, but some people want to give the NDP a pass for spending and taxation that would make Karl Marx blush. It makes no sense.

Both of these were governments that needed to be shown the door. They got big heads and stopped governing for the people. Perhaps, this will bring much needed rejuvenation to both parties involved.

[kelownabomberfan]

3 minutes ago, gcn11 said:

True enough....and the vote has taken place on that. In October they were turfed and deservedly so. However, I find it amusing how people would try to use the federal CONS to defend the Manitoba NDP. At least the federal CONS spending came with tax cuts, and was nowhere even remotely close to the level of spending per taxpayer, of the Manitoba NDPs. The federal CONS got trounced for their deficits, among other things, but some people want to give the NDP a pass for spending and taxation that would make Karl Marx blush. It makes no sense.

I agree.   I was scratching my head at the comparison myself, as its not really comparing apples to apples, and just smells of desperation.  And as we all know:

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, Jacquie said:

NAFTA has it good and bad points but it hasn't stopped the Americans from being stupid.

I also think there are a lot of people who would argue the GST was a good thing. 

Tell that to Brian Mulroney. He is the most reviled PM of the last few decades. Ironically, it was the left that screamed bloody murder when it was introduced on the heels of the drunken spending spree that was the Liberal government. I don't think you will find too many people who will argue the GST was a good thing, I think you will find a lot that will agree that given the circumstances there was little alternative.

The bottom line is that in Canada we do not have a strong aversion to taxation. We are used to it. What we do have a strong aversion to is raising taxes, increasing spending, and ballooning the debt at an astronomical rate, all at the same time. Not too many governments survive that....and rightfully so.

Edited April 25, 2016 by gcn11

[bigg jay]

On 4/20/2016 at 2:14 PM, bustamente said:

Hearing that some NDP dippers are already fleeing to Alberta. that province is in for a world of hurt if there cash cow doesn't rebound in the next year

This works both ways.  There are Cons from Alberta (and Saskatchewan) making their way over here to work for Pallister as 1/3 of his new transition team if from out of province.