Stadium Construction In Ottawa

[iso_55]

Things are looking to be progressing quite nicely for the R.R...R..RedBlacks stadium in Ottawa for their season opener next June. If you say it real fast the name doesn't sound as stupid.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planning-and-development/transforming-ottawa/stadium

 

 

Now compare that to Hamilton. Construction has barely begun. I've looked at this site before & I don't think they've even started constructing the grandstand on the other side of the field. Pretty easy to see why some people think that the stadium won't be ready in time for the 2014 season. At least they won't have to deal with installing the same kind of roof that was constructed for Investors Group Field as there is no roof.  

 

Link:

 

 

http://www.ticats.ca/page/construction-cam

 

Looking at these 2 stadiums really makes me appreciate the facility we have.

[rebusrankin]

Tim Horton's Field looks like a cheaper version of Winnipeg Stadium

[JuranBoldenRules]

The cost difference between our stadium and Hamilton's are two steel trusses and a couple jumbotrons that aren't used for much more than advertising.  Personally, I'd give up the steel trusses for more seats between the goal-lines and a proper concourse.  Ours is visually pretty (as long as you don't look at the concrete and the sloppy cuts for egress to the field), theirs will be functional.

 

The Bisons game last night was very well produced.  Actually got to see some replays, and the camera work was actually better than the Bomber game, where they can't seem to figure out how to get a wide shot of the field rather than extreme close-ups.

 

Looks like Ottawa will be tight to get finished, don't look at all close to getting a field down and the shell (supports) of the stadium isn't complete.  Wonder when they'll have to decide whether or not they'll play in 2014.

[Captain Blue]

The cost difference between our stadium and Hamilton's are two steel trusses and a couple jumbotrons that aren't used for much more than advertising.  Personally, I'd give up the steel trusses for more seats between the goal-lines and a proper concourse.  Ours is visually pretty (as long as you don't look at the concrete and the sloppy cuts for egress to the field), theirs will be functional.

 

The Bisons game last night was very well produced.  Actually got to see some replays, and the camera work was actually better than the Bomber game, where they can't seem to figure out how to get a wide shot of the field rather than extreme close-ups.

 

Looks like Ottawa will be tight to get finished, don't look at all close to getting a field down and the shell (supports) of the stadium isn't complete.  Wonder when they'll have to decide whether or not they'll play in 2014.

 

Replays are so rare at Bomber games, it is probably my biggest issue with the new stadium.

[TrueBlue]

The Bisons game last night was very well produced. Actually got to see some replays, and the camera work was actually better than the Bomber game, where they can't seem to figure out how to get a wide shot of the field rather than extreme close-ups.

I agree that it was well produced and the replays were nice, but I disagree about the camera work being better than Bomber games. There weren't enough angles and the positioning was a bit off on more than a few occasions.

[iso_55]

The cost difference between our stadium and Hamilton's are two steel trusses and a couple jumbotrons that aren't used for much more than advertising.  Personally, I'd give up the steel trusses for more seats between the goal-lines and a proper concourse.  Ours is visually pretty (as long as you don't look at the concrete and the sloppy cuts for egress to the field), theirs will be functional.

 

The Bisons game last night was very well produced.  Actually got to see some replays, and the camera work was actually better than the Bomber game, where they can't seem to figure out how to get a wide shot of the field rather than extreme close-ups.

 

Looks like Ottawa will be tight to get finished, don't look at all close to getting a field down and the shell (supports) of the stadium isn't complete.  Wonder when they'll have to decide whether or not they'll play in 2014.

I think there's no doubt Ottawa will get finished in time as they still have 10 months & the grandstands are for the most part up. But Hamilton? Jeez, I dunno. They look behind schedule not from a construction POV but from the fact Bob Young & the City of Hamilton wasted so much time. They were behind schedule even before the first backhoe dug into the ground. 

[Westy Sucks]

Hamilton's stadium is just a new version of the ugly pos they had before....what a waste...not even worth it.  It's going to look cheap.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Here's Drew Edwards perspective on our stadium and Hamilton's.  If you are a rah-rah unconditional IGF lover, you won't like it.

 

 

 

http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/

 

 

Lessons for Hamilton from Winnipeg's stadium

Fan experience should be first priority,
but reality is football and finances are often like O-line vs. D-line

 

By Drew Edwards

The most impressive element of the new Investors Group Field in Winnipeg is unquestionably the massive roof, its two sections of ornately-designed, curved steel covering almost eight acres and stretching almost 200 feet over the seats below. It's swooping profile is the iconic image used in much of the branding.

But the roof also added approximately $35 million to the cost and was the central factor in a year-long delay in opening the facility.

The new Hamilton stadium, due to open in time for the 2014 CFL season next July, will have no such roof, one of several important differences between Tim Hortons Field and the Investors Group version in Winnipeg.

 

One Is cost. Tim Hortons Field has a budget of $148 million, while IGF was budgeted at $200 million before the delay and additional, costs which are expected to push the final tally closer to a quarter of a billion dollars. Money in Winnipeg is undeniably tight: for example, the press box is still unfinished - it's currently situated outdoors - and will have to be enclosed before the Bombers can hold a Grey Cup.

 

In addition to the roof, the Winnipeg stadium also has close to 10,000 more seats than the 22,500 planned in Hamilton. That may sound like a good thing, but where those seats are located is key: while the Hamilton design emphasizes seating between the 20-yard lines, IGF has extensive end zone seating. The Bombers have yet to sell out a game this season - their winless home record likely isn't helping - but the vast majority of the empty seats have been located in the end zone, where visibility for CFL games is poorest.

 

One of the design features of the new Hamilton facility that has received the most attention is social areas located behind each zone, places where fans are expected to congregate and watch the game in an atmosphere that's been likened to a sports bar. Winnipeg has those areas as well - they were packed Aug. 24 against Ticats - but they are much further from the field, sitting behind row upon row of end zone seats.

 

There's also a major difference on how high end ticket buyers will experience the game. The club seats in Winnipeg - known as the Pinnacle Club - feature both a seating area and a communal gathering spot where fans can eat and socialize. But those two areas are separated by a concourse: there's no way to see the action unless seated. In Hamilton, that gathering spot has been designed to allow for a view of the field of play.

 

One of the possible explanations for the construction delay and some of the oversights in the Winnipeg facility is the relative inexperience in both the architect and the builder in constructing sports facilities. Both firms were required to be Manitoba-based by the terms set by the provincial government, the primary financial backer (more on that in a minute.)

The Hamilton stadium, meanwhile, is being built by an international consortium that includes by Cannon Design, which was involved in the B.C. Place renovation, the Richmond Olympic Oval and the new Landsdowne Park in Ottawa. The builder is Bouygues Construction, a huge multinational based in France. It has built everything from bridges to soccer stadiums, to the containment shelter for the nuclear reactors in Chernobyl.

 

The Ticats have also spent the better part of two years touring stadiums across North America in attempt to gather the best fan experiences and incorporate them into Tim Hortons Field. They've also hired a number of consultants to advise them, including Jim Cima, who has been heavily involved in the construction of pro stadiums and arenas in Philadelphia, New Jersey and Minnesota among several others.

 

There are also significant differences in how the stadiums will be financed. Investors Group Field was built with the help of a $22.5-million provincial grant, a $7.5-million city grant and what amount to $170 in provincial loans. The Bombers plan to use revenue from the football team to repay $95 million of that money, while property taxes from new developments at the former Canad Inns Stadium site are expected cover the balance.

 

That means the Bombers must prioritize their finances to pay for their new building on an ongoing basis, and hope that the developments at Canad Inns produce as expected (it's a series of big box stores.) Because the Bombers are community-owned with no deep-pocketed owner behind them, the responsibility will fall to the taxpayers should the team fail to meet their commitments.

In Hamilton, the financing is more clear. It is budgeted at $145.7 million with the city is contributing $54.3 million, the province $22.3 million and federal government paying the remaining $69.1 million.

The Ticats have committed to pay the city $1.2 million per year for 20 years in exchange for use of the stadium, including $450,000 in rent and $750,000 per season in exchange for naming rights as part of a memorandum of understanding signed in February 2011. A final agreement is still being worked on.

 

Last weekend, while the Ticats were busy beating the Bombers on the field, representatives from the football team and the city of Hamilton were touring the Winnipeg stadium and talking to their counterparts about the challenges they had encountered. Winnipeg has a magnificent new facility - with a spectacular roof - but Hamilton may still end up with something both more economically and more sporting for fans.

 

[iso_55]

Sure, Drew.What reefer are you smoking? Their new stadium will be a brand new modern POS. Look at the renderings...Edwards comments are comical. Especially when it comes to financing. The stadium isn't being built for the Ti Cats. It's being built for the 2015 Pan Am Games so naturally the financing will be totally different. I would have preferred a more functional roof than the the cantaliever design we have now but it's there & yes it is iconic.

[Uncle Bill]

Not sold out yet? Drew has not done his homework. One sellout; average attendance 32,251; capacity 33,500. This for a 1 - 8 team.

Hamilton attendance: 12,939, in a 13,000~ seat stadium.

Just sayin'.

[holoman]

Comparing Winnipeg's attendance to Hamilton (guelph) is irrelevant

[DR. CFL]

I guess the issue he is commenting on is form vs function. Seems to be the perspective of the article.

[robynjt]

If the team was playing well, sell outs would be a lot closer. 

 

Also, the endzone seats weren't THAT awful when I went.  My upper deck seats are definitely better though, so the cost seems crazy.  Any chance of them lowering ticket prices for those sections?  

 

Basically it just sounds like Hamilton's cheaper, therefore it's better.  I have a head time seeing that... but that's just me.  Winnipeg definitely went more "NFL" style compared to small and intimate like Montreal for ex.  

[17to85]

I guess the issue he is commenting on is form vs function. Seems to be the perspective of the article.

Also could be called polishing a turd.

[Uncle Bill]

Comparing Winnipeg's attendance to Hamilton (guelph) is irrelevant

Comparing attendance is relevant.

[holoman]

 

Comparing Winnipeg's attendance to Hamilton (guelph) is irrelevant

Comparing attendance is relevant.

 

Not for this year IMO.  Not a heck of a lot of people (I assume) were going to travel from Hamilton to Guelph 9 times out of the year, and I doubt Guelph fans would shell out $$$ for a team that is only there temporarily.

[Uncle Bill]

Comparing Winnipeg's attendance to Hamilton (guelph) is irrelevant

Comparing attendance is relevant.

Not for this year IMO.  Not a heck of a lot of people (I assume) were going to travel from Hamilton to Guelph 9 times out of the year, and I doubt Guelph fans would shell out $$$ for a team that is only there temporarily.

The team does not sell out games in a 13k stadium in a city of 140k about an hour from their home city. They are hardly in a position to call down Winnipeg's attendance.

That makes attendance relevant IMO.

[JuranBoldenRules]

I don't really see where a pissing contest about attendance breaks out.  He's saying that the Bombers will be relying on a gate to service the debt (Buchko said they needed 31,500 a game to do it), while the Tiger-Cats won't be in that position, which could affect football operations and the money available. 

[iso_55]

 

 

 

Comparing Winnipeg's attendance to Hamilton (guelph) is irrelevant

Comparing attendance is relevant.

Not for this year IMO.  Not a heck of a lot of people (I assume) were going to travel from Hamilton to Guelph 9 times out of the year, and I doubt Guelph fans would shell out $$$ for a team that is only there temporarily.

The team does not sell out games in a 13k stadium in a city of 140k about an hour from their home city. They are hardly in a position to call down Winnipeg's attendance.

That makes attendance relevant IMO.

 

Exactly. And hamilton's attendance has sucked for decades. I remember crowds of 15,000 & whole sections empty for Ti Cats games at Never Win in the 80's. So, who is Edwards to talk?

[iso_55]

I don't really see where a pissing contest about attendance breaks out.  He's saying that the Bombers will be relying on a gate to service the debt (Buchko said they needed 31,500 a game to do it), while the Tiger-Cats won't be in that position, which could affect football operations and the money available. 

Would that crappola new stadium in Hamilton have been built if it wasn't for the Pan Am Games? No way at all. They'd be stuck in the old Never Win Stadium until it collapsed. It's 100% taxpayer funded.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

I don't really see where a pissing contest about attendance breaks out.  He's saying that the Bombers will be relying on a gate to service the debt (Buchko said they needed 31,500 a game to do it), while the Tiger-Cats won't be in that position, which could affect football operations and the money available. 

Would that crappola new stadium in Hamilton have been built if it wasn't for the Pan Am Games? No way at all. They'd be stuck in the old Never Win Stadium until it collapsed. It's 100% taxpayer funded.

 

So...what's your point?  Ours will end up being taxpayer funded too.

[Uncle Bill]

I don't really see where a pissing contest about attendance breaks out.  He's saying that the Bombers will be relying on a gate to service the debt (Buchko said they needed 31,500 a game to do it), while the Tiger-Cats won't be in that position, which could affect football operations and the money available.

Quite right, it's not a pissing contest. Just an incorrect comment in passing: "The Bombers have yet to sell out a game this season" that I felt needed a rebuttal...

[Uncle Bill]

"So...what's your point? Ours will end up being taxpayer funded too."

When that happens lets ***** about it. Until then, it's irrelevant. Ironic eh?

[Jacquie]

I'd like to know how he came up with his $250mil comment. Enclosing the press box ain't gonna cost $50mil.

I don't really see where a pissing contest about attendance breaks out.  He's saying that the Bombers will be relying on a gate to service the debt (Buchko said they needed 31,500 a game to do it), while the Tiger-Cats won't be in that position, which could affect football operations and the money available.

Didn't Buchko say that before the new TV deal was signed?

[Guest]

Hamilton's new stadium really does look like a piece of junk, a bit better than the original renderings.

No issue with Ottawa's though, the veil was a cool idea, Hamilton actually stole the patio idea from them. and people have to keep in mind that only half the stadium is new, North side will be renovated.

 

I don't recall the 31,500 Bombers number to pay of the bill, anyone have a link for that ???

All I remember was Watchorn stating that it had to be above 28,000.