Lawless: O'Shea & Walters to return in 2016

[Goalie]

Nichols won 2 games as a bomber and with a kicker it would have been 3. Regardless tho.. Nichols is a back up

[Goalie]

Oh and Johnny Adams Khalil Bass and I believe MO Leggett says hi. Jace Daniels too. Bigger loss than ppl realize. Cam Marshall too. Not his fault the OC don't use him enough. I really do feel it's tough to gauge the O talent when the OC is useless. Technically also Willy was never a free agent... Walters traded Etienne for him.

[do or die]

So useless we kept him here all year.....

[Goalie]

Useless for sure but not sure firing him earlier would have made a huge difference. Same O I'm sure but different guy calling the plays doesn't change a flawed system

[Captain Blue]

I'd be more willing to tolerate O'Shea sticking around if Walters and Bellefuille were fired. For my money Walters is the biggest issue still - this roster is terrible. Bellefuille has sucked, but nobody is gonna get the offense working better if Walters can't find OLs, WRs, and another RB.

I find it hard to believe we will ever be on the right track with Walters in charge.

[bb1]

Useless for sure but not sure firing him earlier would have made a huge difference. Same O I'm sure but different guy calling the plays doesn't change a flawed system

Yea but your now saying Hall should go too. When does the buck stop at the person responsible for hiring these assistants? I get it he's a good guy, great to his players but he ain't a good HC the record speaks for itself.

[Guest J5V]

 

Everyone over reacting after a loss but overall this is good news. Walters, MOS and Hall back is good. Tweak from there. New OC and a few weapons and we're a different team.

Putting you in charge of selling season tickets.

 

I'd be more concerned that someone is hitting the bottle a little too hard. An intervention might be a better idea.

[bb1]

Everyone over reacting after a loss but overall this is good news. Walters, MOS and Hall back is good. Tweak from there. New OC and a few weapons and we're a different team.

After a loss........and a loss and a loss and........ Hell we should extend em all for 5 years we might make it to

.500

[Guest J5V]

Everyone over reacting after a loss but overall this is good news. Walters, MOS and Hall back is good. Tweak from there. New OC and a few weapons and we're a different team.

After a loss........and a loss and a loss and........ Hell we should extend em all for 5 years we might make it to

.500

You guys need to screw the lid on the bottle and go get some sleep.

[Dragon37]

Everyone over reacting after a loss but overall this is good news. Walters, MOS and Hall back is good. Tweak from there. New OC and a few weapons and we're a different team.

I'm going to call you out and say a large Bullshit!

Then I'll offer a challenge, explain why keeping Walters and MOS is a good idea.

Here's a question, and I realize it's a hypothetical but play along if you don't mind (Others as well if you feel so inclined).

 

Consider the wins we have now this season, and the amount of games we've lost in the final few minutes this year. Now assume we build a solid offensive line, Drew Willy plays 15-17 games (it's rare to play all 18 after all) and we have a new OC - What do you think our record is? Just curious.

Who the hell cares? The fact is if this was a GOOD team you wouldn't have to make excuses. Calgary, Toronto, Hamilton, Edmonton, and Ottawa have all had injuries and adversity and come out on top on a majority of their games. Winnipeg gets beat by one injury and the slightest whiff of adversity.

If Willy was healthy we win two more games, three tops. If we had a different OC? The same two games. What you are forgetting is that most of our losses were not by a point or two.

The point is moot. This isn't a good team or a close to good team playing below their abilities this is a bad team playing at the peak of their abilities.

Three of those teams have had the same QB for every game this season (Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa), and the other two have unquestionably the top two defences in the league. Sure all of them have injuries as well, but keep in mind some those teams you mentioned (home games against Calgary, Edmonton, and Ottawa immediately come to mind) very likely are not losses given the scenario I provided. The injuries they have (nevermind their respective offensive staffs) aren't in the realm of ours either currently.

 

Take away Mitchell, Harris, and Burris from their teams, do you think their records are anywhere near what they are right now? Not a chance.

 

I get this sucks right now. I'm not happy with it either. I'm also not saying O'Shea and Walters are without their flaws, but welcome to football. No matter who we have in those positions, there will be screw ups and weaknesses.

So full steam ahead with a crew that has clearly proven they cannot build a competitive team? For the record Willy's numbers were going down when he got hurt. So, if he stayed healthy I would guess our record would be the same. Also, we would not have Nichols so the chances of doing anything for the games you say Willy would not start would likely be losses.

So with no other changes other than Marcel going into next year amounts to no record change. This is a bad team playing at their peak and not a good team underperforming.

[iso_55]

The same people here who want Marcel Bellefeuille fired but want to keep MOS because they are concerned we go thru too many head coaches & by gosh, how can we attract good people if we keep firing them? Well then we can't fire MB. He has to come back. I mean, using the logic of some people here, if we fire MB that'll mean 3 coordinators will have been fired in 2 seasons. Just who will want to come coach here? Just what promising offensive coach will want to be the Bombers OC? No one as they know eventually get fired. The same excuse people use to keep MOS around can't demand a MB firing yet expect quality assistant coaches to come here either. So there it is, folks. It doesn't matter. But don't say we need to keep Mike but have to fire Bellefeuille. 

[rebusrankin]

Spencer, Elliott, Gurley, Hazelton, Walker, Burham, Tolliver and Roosevelt are all receivers who have come in this year and made a difference but Walters can't find one so we start Stoudermire yesterday.

 

Cato, Franklin, Jennings, Matthews and Smith all QBs who've come in this year and won a game and yet Walters trots out Brohm and Marve.

 

I'd go on but its depressing.

[Mark F]

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

[Dragon37]

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

He has coached the Bombers to a winning record over Montreal and players like all the hugs and kisses he gives them.

[blitzmore]

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

Iso logical? Now that's funny...

[bb1]

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

He has coached the Bombers to a winning record over Montreal and players like all the hugs and kisses he gives them.

He is a wizard with film watching too.

[pigseye]

Just because we fired coaches prematurely in the past, Berry, Lapo, that's no reason to keep O'Shea around. O'Shea hasn't been close to reaching the same success the other two did.

[Dragon37]

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

Iso logical? Now that's funny...

He makes more sense than someone like you who has their head firmly buried in the sand.

[blitzmore]

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

Iso logical? Now that's funny...

He makes more sense than someone like you who has their head firmly buried in the sand.

Ahhh...typical Dragon37...

[BBRT]

I have read all the posts both pro and con and really don't have an answer. I however, know one thing - the season ticket count for 2016 will tell us whether the decisions that need to be made shortly will be correct or not. I really don't want to blow up the entire management structure and start over again, but on the other hand what has happened since Wade Miller has taken over is not all that good, at least IMHO.

 

Unless something changes that will put the 20-25 K season ticket holder into the stands this team is going to be in trouble. I don't know what the financial stability of the franchise happens to be, but how long can they continue to generate the revenue to stay viable given their record over the past 4-5 years?

 

Reading all the posts on this site and others this year and seeing the results on the field over the past 4 or 5 years leaves me with some significant doubts regarding current engagement. I can only say that living in Calgary I have always made a point of getting to Winnipeg for at least 2 games a year and every game that the Bombers played had me in front of my TV when not in the Peg. This year that did not happen. I taped all the games and watched a few. Next year I doubt I will take the time to head back to the Peg for any games. And I have been bleeding Blue and Gold since 1981! 

[realviking]

I expect consequences for this debacle of a season. If I'm Wade Miller, I fire Danny McManus and lure a top notch scout away from another team. I, aslo, hire a Tom Higgins type of guy as a director of player personnel and hold Walters feet to the flame. Put him on notice that he better do better. I don't fire Walters or O'Shea but make sure I have people at the ready to take over.

 

If I'm Walters, I talk to O'Shea and demand the firing of MB and let him know his replacement must come with his approval and had better be a good one. I find a blue chipper scout and either add him on or replace McManus/Goveia. I let a lot of our pending non NI FA's walk and sign Andrew Harris and OL help. I sign Bilikudi and dump Hurl. I make every effort to re-sign Matt Nichols or another experienced backup.

 

If I'm O'Shea, I turf the entire offensive coaching staff. They suck. I get a top notch ST coordinator as well.as a QB coach for Willy and Nichols. Nichols, seemed to have trouble getting into a groove early in ball games and I think that was mostly mental on his part. A good QB coach may have been of great assistance. I, also, walk into Walters office and demand that he sign a gamebreaker on offence. We simply have no one that the opposing defence needs to fear. We need that type of player that changes how opposing defences would like to play against you, into how they have to play against you. We don't have that. We need it desperately. Andrew Harris immediately comes to mind. He keeps opposing defences on their heels.

 

This, of course, is just a preliminary list but it's where I'd start, I don't believe that firing Walters or O'Shea lends any credibility to our team at all and is something we should try to avoid. Not saying they don't deserve a good public rebuke or that the organization shouldn't put in a first class exit strategy in place for their future dismissal. However, I believe we should stay the course with improvements made of course. We simply cannot continue to be the organization that continues to hire and fire every second year. That could cost us far more then keeping these guys on. We must show stability for once in the past decade or we immediately revert back to being a joke again. We can avoid that. The problems of our current coaching and management are not insurmountable, they just need more of and a better supporting cast....much like the core group of players that we will keep.

 

Fantastic analysis! I would just add that you need to give your relatively inexperienced GM and head coach some leeway to make mistakes and correct them. In Walters' case, he needs to enhance/replace the scouting staff.

 

In O'Shea's case, he needs to replace his OC and maybe more of his offensive staff. I think part of the problem with O'Shea has been his deference to his more experienced coordinators, but now that he himself has gained more experience, he should be more confident to pull the trigger on needed changes. I really do think that it's tweaks that we need, not wholesale changes. If you bring in a capable OC (and a left guard), the offense scores more points and stays on the field longer, which makes it easier to play defense, and all of a sudden, you have a playoff team.

 

O'Shea has his flaws, for sure, but there's something to be said for the fact that his players seem very loyal to him, and has created a fair amount of loyalty to the club (see the long-term extensions signed by players this season). That said, I would only give this regime one more year. If they can't improve next year, then it's time to move on.

[iso_55]

 

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

Iso logical? Now that's funny...

 

So tell me, Norman Einstein... We fire 3 offensive coaches then who will come here? Best to blow up the entire coaching staff then keep firing coordinators. And who keeps hiring these coordinators that aren't good enough? Our clueless head coach. Yeah, makes all kind of sense to keep MOS but throw his assistants under the bus.  

[rebusrankin]

Players loved Reinbold too, just saying.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

The problem with your posts Iso, is that they are too logical.

 

Posts are to be based on how you feel about a player/coach/manager, and who you like, or don't like.

 

I would like to see someone to post a detailed list of the accomplishments of the head coach over two seasons.

Iso logical? Now that's funny...

He makes more sense than someone like you who has their head firmly buried in the sand.

Ahhh...typical Dragon37...

 

No, he's referring to typical YOU. 

[Mr Dee]

I expect consequences for this debacle of a season. If I'm Wade Miller, I fire Danny McManus and lure a top notch scout away from another team. I, aslo, hire a Tom Higgins type of guy as a director of player personnel and hold Walters feet to the flame. Put him on notice that he better do better. I don't fire Walters or O'Shea but make sure I have people at the ready to take over.

The area of scouting is what has surprised me the most. I expected more. An overseer, such as you mention is also a good idea.

 

If I'm Walters, I talk to O'Shea and demand the firing of MB and let him know his replacement must come with his approval and had better be a good one. I find a blue chipper scout and either add him on or replace McManus/Goveia. I make every effort to re-sign Matt Nichols or another experienced backup.

MB's dismissal cannot come soon enough. And it must be done.

 

If I'm O'Shea, I turf the entire offensive coaching staff. They suck. I get a top notch ST coordinator as well.as a QB coach for Willy and Nichols. Nichols, seemed to have trouble getting into a groove early in ball games and I think that was mostly mental on his part. A good QB coach may have been of great assistance. I, also, walk into Walters office and demand that he sign a gamebreaker on offence. We simply have no one that the opposing defence needs to fear. We need that type of player that changes how opposing defences would like to play against you, into how they have to play against you. We don't have that. We need it desperately. Andrew Harris immediately comes to mind. He keeps opposing defences on their heels.

 

I'd find it hard to argue for anybody on our current Offensive staff.

This, of course, is just a preliminary list but it's where I'd start, I don't believe that firing Walters or O'Shea lends any credibility to our team at all and is something we should try to avoid. Not saying they don't deserve a good public rebuke or that the organization shouldn't put in a first class exit strategy in place for their future dismissal. However, I believe we should stay the course with improvements made of course. We simply cannot continue to be the organization that continues to hire and fire every second year. That could cost us far more then keeping these guys on. We must show stability for once in the past decade or we immediately revert back to being a joke again. We can avoid that. The problems of our current coaching and management are not insurmountable, they just need more of and a better supporting cast....much like the core group of players that we will keep.

When it boils down to it, we need stability and well thought out moves, well before knee-jerk-fire-everybody mentality. Thanks for starting that process.