Ladd and Buff

[Rich]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rich]

Salary wise that is an extra $1.5M for Buff and an extra $1.5M for Ladd (probably more in the first couple of years depending how the salary is structured)

Cap hit would be and extra $2.5M for Buff and $1.5M for Ladd.

The Jets have the lowest payroll in the league right now with $11.5M open in cap space.  This certainly wouldn't preclude them from signing Trouba and Scheifele.  And by the time the other prospects are looking for their 2nd / 3rd deals, players like Enstrom and Stafford would be coming off the books.

You have Perreault and Burmi coming off their contracts next year.  Would really like to see Perreault re-signed.

If you sign both of them and you put Sheifele and Trouba on long term deals, you are pretty close to a cap team at that point.  Giving Trouba a bridge deal would give you some wiggle room for a couple of years, but you may pay for it later.

[Floyd]

Even if its 5 @ 7.5 thats only 2.5 million extra each season - basically, Pardy and Clitsome's contracts...

Would love to see

Trouba-Buff

Morrissey-Myers

Enstrom-Kostalek

(Chiarot/Postma)

Trade Ladd - sure Jets could still land a 1st round pick for him... Shop Pavelec, Enstrom and Stuart

[The Unknown Poster]

Those are good points Rich. 

Do the Jets look at over-all salary?  I just find it difficult to believe they'd have the highest percentage of payroll dedicated to D in the league.

And I dont like Ladd a $6M.  Sure, he probably gets close to that on the open market.  But that doesnt mean we should lock ourselves into a bad deal.  Its hard to compare deals signed in different years but does Ladd deserve more than Blake Wheeler?  Ladd at $5m?  Sure, do it.

Also keep in mind that Myers, even though the Jets get closer to the cap, the real dollars on Myers deal saves them a bit.  Maybe the Jets are doing very well financially (Forbes had them just squeaking out a meager profit) and Chipman will let them spend to the cap...

[The Unknown Poster]

Good point Floyd, perhaps they have made an internal decision to move away from Pavs and there's $4m (or whatever it is) right there.  Even if they cant move him, they only have him on the books for one more year.  They save money in the position on Helle who has, what, two more years?

I have a feeling Scheif wont be a difficult contract.  Trouba might be.  But if you do a 3 year bridge, you have the option of taking Toby's money off the books and I think Myers is up in three years too (and at that point if Trouba deserves an 8 year big money deal, you only have to manage two more years of Buff at that point...its doable).

Oddly I am getting the feeling they sign both guys.  But a cap team that doesnt make the playoffs?  I dont know about that.....

[Rich]

Also have Armia / Lowry / Lipon coming off contract next year (RFA).  Don't see huge contracts for Armia and Lowry but there is a few more million in there between the two of them. 

[Rich]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Good point Floyd, perhaps they have made an internal decision to move away from Pavs and there's $4m (or whatever it is) right there.  Even if they cant move him, they only have him on the books for one more year.  They save money in the position on Helle who has, what, two more years?

I have a feeling Scheif wont be a difficult contract.  Trouba might be.  But if you do a 3 year bridge, you have the option of taking Toby's money off the books and I think Myers is up in three years too (and at that point if Trouba deserves an 8 year big money deal, you only have to manage two more years of Buff at that point...its doable).

Oddly I am getting the feeling they sign both guys.  But a cap team that doesnt make the playoffs?  I dont know about that.....

Helle only has one more year after this.  So he is going to be an RFA the same year Pavelec is done.   I don't think there is a lot of savings there, may even be an increase depending on what kind of term they go for.  Likely they go bridge with him to give him a few more years to prove consistency, goalies can be such fickle players.

[Ducky]

We shouldn't be looking at what is left this year but looking at next year. They are 30m away from the cap next year.

UFA

Buff 7.5

Ladd 6

Halischuk  .8

Lipon .75

Armia 1.2

Clitsome

Cormier

Pardy

Harrison

Raffl

RFA

Trouba 4.25

Lowry  1.75

Scheifele 4.25

Hutchinson 1.25

Fraser

Kichton

Brassard

MacWilliam

Melchiori

 

The bolded players will not be taken into consideration.

This is adding 27.75 to the cap.......2.25 away from ceiling.  Probably too many players though. Probably too close to the cap.

Staf, MP, Thorburn, Pavs and Postma are all UFAs after next season. About 13.5m.

Burmi, Copp, Chiarot and Helle are RFAs after next season.

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Ducky

[Ducky]

Ehlers, Lemieux, Morrissey, Petan, De Leo, Kostalek, Lodge, Comrie, and Blomqvist are all RFAs in 2018-2019.

[The Unknown Poster]

Well the cap *should* go up, though the dollar is going to drag it down a bit.  So might not be as close to the cap as we think.

The comparison to this year is done to show that keeping a player isnt $6m more...it's only $1.5 more.

But as you showed, when using next year's cap space and all the players needed to be signed, the Jets get a lot closer to the cap and quite honestly, that close, you HAVE to be a contender or something is very wrong.

Then again, if Helle maintains his .930 and 2.00GAA for an entire season, how much better are the Jets?

[Ducky]

It wouldn't surprise me if the cap stayed where it is.

[Ducky]

Lawless was saying yesterday that he talking to an NHL GM (in the last 24 hours) and he was asking what everyone was so worried about when it came to signing Buff. The GM said something like ...

I don't know why everyone is worried about signing him at his age. He still skates like the wind and plays the game to his physical abilities. This masks what an intelligent player he is and what a great passer he is. If/when he slows down, there may be a correction period where he might adjust but then switch the way he plays to a more cerebral game and doing more passing instead of lugging it himself. If he picks up his D game as his O game diminishes, does his contract look as bad at the tail end of it?

I think and have mentioned before that Buff is smart enough to turn into a more defensive-minded D man as he ages. Off topic but I think he should be in front of the net during the PP and let someone else take his spot.

 

Lawless goes on to say at 5 x 7.5 could work and that 7.5 in 6 years isn't going to be as big a hit as it is now.

He also says there is more focus on signing Buff than trading him or signing Ladd from the Jets side of things. I like that.

Buff for 5 years would be ideal but I'd even go 6 if I had to. Something like 6 x 6.875 for 41.25.

 

[Jimmy Pop]

4 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Lawless was saying yesterday that he talking to an NHL GM (in the last 24 hours) and he was asking what everyone was so worried about when it came to signing Buff. The GM said something like ...

I don't know why everyone is worried about signing him at his age. He still skates like the wind and plays the game to his physical abilities. This masks what an intelligent player he is and what a great passer he is. If/when he slows down, there may be a correction period where he might adjust but then switch the way he plays to a more cerebral game and doing more passing instead of lugging it himself. If he picks up his D game as his O game diminishes, does his contract look as bad at the tail end of it?

I think and have mentioned before that Buff is smart enough to turn into a more defensive-minded D man as he ages. Off topic but I think he should be in front of the net during the PP and let someone else take his spot.

 

Lawless goes on to say at 5 x 7.5 could work and that 7.5 in 6 years isn't going to be as big a hit as it is now.

He also says there is more focus on signing Buff than trading him or signing Ladd from the Jets side of things. I like that.

Buff for 5 years would be ideal but I'd even go 6 if I had to. Something like 6 x 6.875 for 41.25.

 

I heard the same on the radio, and was pleasantly surprised re: the apparent 180 in Chevy's contract talks - now looking like we're a lot closer to getting Buff signed, than Ladd.

Bolded, also completely agree. I feel like we're already seeing that in his game. The poor decisions leading to mistakes have been reduced greatly. Now, nearly every NHLer who plays as many mins as Buff is going to make mistakes out there, but his mental game is far superior than it was pre-Maurice. That, and he plays within his role now, and is doing it quite well.

Perhaps the next "TRUE NORTH" anthem shout out should be "SIGN BUFF!". 

[The Unknown Poster]

Those are good points.  Look at the Wheeler contract.  Seemed fair at the time but arguably he's underpaid.  That's the risk/reward factor with long term deals.  Players sign them for the safety they provide and teams like them because it provided long term cost certainty.  I remember having this discussion many times before the Jets came back with the naysayers saying Winnipeg could never afford "todays" salaries.  The counter argument was, its not the salaries its the uncertainty.  And a Cap provides certainty even if its a high cap.

Anyway, digressing...  the risk with Buff is that his weight ballooned that one year.  So its not unfair for GM's to be cautious about that happening again.  And even if it doesnt, a player of his size could easily;y develop knee/back issues.  We might choke on $7.5M of a couple of years but assuming Buff continues to be a top tier talent for most of the contract, the $7.5 might look like a deal in year 3-5.

[The Unknown Poster]

Im wondering something though...is this a switch from Ladd to Buff because Ladd negotiations arent going well?  Or have they essentially nailed down what it ake to keep Ladd and are now seeing what it would take to keep Buff to either potentially keep both or then decide which one to sign.  Its possible they chipped away at Ladd enough to generate a few extra bucks for Buff.

In theory I like the idea of keeping both guys.  But what is best for this team for the next 10-15 years?  Im not sure signing them rather then trading them for key pieces is the right thing for the future.  You essentially risk taking a bottom 3 team this year and icing the exact same team next year except now its really close to being a cap team. 

[Ducky]

I would love to see what Buff would bring as a shut down D man with his size and nastiness. Give him 8.5, 8.25, 7.75, 6.75, 6.25.

Trade Ladd for the best deal involving prospects. Let the other team have its first rounder. Montreal is going to make a deal if they don't start winning. See what you can get for Ladd and Pavs/Hutch with salary retained on Ladd's contract.

 

Maybe they switched because Ladd isn't moving and time is of the essence? Teams are probably inquiring what it would take to acquire those two players and Chevy wants to know what it is going to cost him to re-sign them. Chevy is a shrewd negotiator and doesn't mind waiting until the last minute to get deals done but he needs to know with some cushion in place in case a trade or trades is/are necessary.

[The Unknown Poster]

Montreal isnt trading for Ladd as a result of missing the playoffs unless they get to speak to him first about a contract extension.  One media (maybe Gary) reported he was hearing the possibility the Jets would let teams speak with Ladd and Buff before making a trade offer...

[Floyd]

Ladd and our 4th round pick for Pirri and a 3rd - get it done

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Ladd and our 4th round pick for Pirri and a 3rd - get it done

Im not familiar with Pirri but that sounds like a big over-payment.  He's an RFA after this season. 

[bustamente]

Hate to say it but every game that Ladd plays he is hurting our return in a trade, from a fans perspective he looks like he checked out a long time ago.

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Im not familiar with Pirri but that sounds like a big over-payment.  He's an RFA after this season. 

If Chevy can get a 1st and Pirri, I'm all for it - we'll find out i guess.

[Ducky]

2 hours ago, Floyd said:

Ladd and our 4th round pick for Pirri and a 3rd - get it done

The panthers only gave up a 3rd and a 5th for Pirri. Too much from The Jets.

Ladd  and 2017 3rd rounder for Pirri and Matheson.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

22g/+6 in 49 games 2 years ago. 9g/-6 this year in about the same amount of games. Might have been a one off season in 14/15.

Still he's around a 20g/season player.  Just what we need

[Jimmy Pop]

... Right and Ladd's consistently been a 25G/60PTS guy in 4+ seasons in Wpg.

Im all for trading him for a 1st +, but let's not get carried away.

[Ducky]

http://video.jets.nhl.com/videocenter/

 

hahahahahahahaha

You gotta check out Ladd's response to a question at 2:30 on this video today. She asks if he would still like to sign with the Jets long term. After he answers, check out his expression.

hahahahahahhaha