Bellefeuille OUT.....

[Taynted_Fayth]

would it help sooth the insanity if at the very least we had a ton of rumors floating around about who is coming in like the riders typically do? some false sense of optimism amidst a pile of ****

[SPuDS]

There's a good chance we would have been 9 - 9 if Willy was healthy this season.   Possibly even better than that.

Okay then why was MB fired? He had no decent qb to work with according to you. Like somehow Nicholls was a piece of crap?? Why is it okay to use that excuse with MOS but not MB? He lost his field general but somehow he's a shitty coach & O'Shea isn't? #fansdoublestandard

Because maybe O'Shea believes that his OC, the man tasked with designing and running the offence did not do a good enough job in protecting Willy or adjusting the system to help out the quarterbacks that followed.

 

Edit> Dang, ninja'ed by a goalie...

Mike O'Shea the Teflon Man. Canned 3 coordinators but nothing sticks to him. Pretty flimsy reason WBBFanWest. At some point, he has to be held responsible for lousy coaching hires. But not yet, I guess. I 'm sure he probably has 2 or 3 more staff firings left in him before the Positrons realize the guy is a lousy HC..

Or, we could just rage about it incessantly because that makes a ton more sense and looks way more intelligent.

Yeah because you know it's not right. That all the **** falls on every other coach on staff but O'Shea. So much for the Captain being in charge & having any responsibilty. The absolute glee around here on Monday that Bellefeuille was fired & MOS was kept because Willy got hurt is so ridiculous.

The reason everyone is stoked for bellfools firing is because even tho every other team lost a QB, their OCs managed to make an offense work with a backup. We, could not. bellfool consistently was the hurdle on our offense. Bad calls, players expected to do things they were not good at, horrible blocking packages..

Why cant you see how pathetic bellfools offense's were?

[SPuDS]

Its become very obvious that this forum has polarized into pro and con O'Shea factions, with little common ground. No amount of logic or argument will sway the pro-MOS people and it sure as spit looks like nothing he can do will redeem himself until at least halfway through the 2016 season if he has a winning record by a substantial margin. Either way, every indication is that O'Shea is going to be head coach for at least the start of next year, so flapping our gums will change nothing.

This happens with every coach. This is kinda what this forum was built for lol.

[bb1]

Its become very obvious that this forum has polarized into pro and con O'Shea factions, with little common ground. No amount of logic or argument will sway the pro-MOS people and it sure as spit looks like nothing he can do will redeem himself until at least halfway through the 2016 season if he has a winning record by a substantial margin. Either way, every indication is that O'Shea is going to be head coach for at least the start of next year, so flapping our gums will change nothing.

Well I agree no logic for the pro MOS that's for sure.For me I'll be happy if MOS can get us to .500 at least he will improve to average which is lookin pretty damn good right now.

[Booch]

really a team soars or flops due to it's coordinators or it's talent and or lack there of and how it's utilized. 

 

Head coaches aren't necessarily the real factor unless they are a total idiot and just do blatantly stupid things...there a few in game instances and certain decisions that they solely have to answer to but put any body on a good well balanced team and they will succeed.

 

Mike O isn't a total idiot and sure he made a few eyebrow raising decisions but the total team failures aren't because he is the wrong hire..not at all. 

When this regime first took over they were behind the 8 ball and limited and time challenged on putting a staff together so the pickings were slim.

 

But Etch was pooched...as was the first OC and now his successor. ***** and moan all you want but Walters and Miller, as well as O'shea have created an environment and organization that is an attractive destination for players now, as well as coaches. If we don't do the norm...blow it all up and start again I think that next year is going to be the start of a run of very good consistent football.

 

We were hampered severely by what was going on with the offence and the ripple effect of it hindered the defense. Hall as DC is solid and next year will be a continuation with key guys already in place and familiar with things as opposed to a restart and learn as we go situation like this year. So right there things are already better.

 

Leggett, Westerman, Bass, Wild, Adams, Randle and Johnson would all start on any team right now, or be key rotational guys so we are looking god there. Anderson too will be way better next year. For a big guy it's tough to come back fully after one year from ACL surgery and generally you aren't back to where you were for 2 years. I've gone through it twice personally so trust me on that.

 

With the pieces we had on offence as is, with a capable and creative OC we should have been an above .500 team. It was such a basic and designed to fail offensive scheme it almost seemed like Bellfiuelle was paid by someone else to screw us over. Routes all run at same depth, no misdirection..no pulling lineman, maybe one outside toss to a RB all year...I could go on and on...It was literally laughable.

 

Just a new OC alone next year even if we change no personnel we are already better there too.

 

Add a stud big play receiver, a back to compliment Marshall, and a big mean s.o.b D-lineman and we are a 10 win team next year....score one or two more studs anywhere else on roster...we're laughing

[IC Khari]

[do or die]

So torn and divided, at the moment...... don't know if I should be picking up my gin glass with my right....or left hand.   All I know is that it still gets picked up.

[Mr Dee]

really a team soars or flops due to it's coordinators or it's talent and or lack there of and how it's utilized. 

 ----************

*******

Add a stud big play receiver, a back to compliment Marshall, and a big mean s.o.b D-lineman and we are a 10 win team next year....score one or two more studs anywhere else on roster...we're laughing

Look at that, a calm, rational post. Thanks for that..

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a good chance we would have been 9 - 9 if Willy was healthy this season.   Possibly even better than that.

Okay then why was MB fired? He had no decent qb to work with according to you. Like somehow Nicholls was a piece of crap?? Why is it okay to use that excuse with MOS but not MB? He lost his field general but somehow he's a shitty coach & O'Shea isn't? #fansdoublestandard

Because maybe O'Shea believes that his OC, the man tasked with designing and running the offence did not do a good enough job in protecting Willy or adjusting the system to help out the quarterbacks that followed.

 

Edit> Dang, ninja'ed by a goalie...

Mike O'Shea the Teflon Man. Canned 3 coordinators but nothing sticks to him. Pretty flimsy reason WBBFanWest. At some point, he has to be held responsible for lousy coaching hires. But not yet, I guess. I 'm sure he probably has 2 or 3 more staff firings left in him before the Positrons realize the guy is a lousy HC..

Or, we could just rage about it incessantly because that makes a ton more sense and looks way more intelligent.

Yeah because you know it's not right. That all the **** falls on every other coach on staff but O'Shea. So much for the Captain being in charge & having any responsibilty. The absolute glee around here on Monday that Bellefeuille was fired & MOS was kept because Willy got hurt is so ridiculous.

The reason everyone is stoked for bellfools firing is because even tho every other team lost a QB, their OCs managed to make an offense work with a backup. We, could not. bellfool consistently was the hurdle on our offense. Bad calls, players expected to do things they were not good at, horrible blocking packages..

Why cant you see how pathetic bellfools offense's were?

 

I do see it. I sure as hell see it. I don't like MB offense any more than you do. However, I also see that he took the fall for the entire fail of the Bomber organization under MIller, Walters & O'Shea which isn't right. 

[Fatty Liver]

It wasn't only Willy, it was Cotton ... that injury was big . Bellefool's whole brilliant scheme revolved around him LOL ...

 

Hope you're not one of those Cotton pickerers, I don't like them guys.

[bb1]

really a team soars or flops due to it's coordinators or it's talent and or lack there of and how it's utilized.

Head coaches aren't necessarily the real factor unless they are a total idiot and just do blatantly stupid things...there a few in game instances and certain decisions that they solely have to answer to but put any body on a good well balanced team and they will succeed.

Mike O isn't a total idiot and sure he made a few eyebrow raising decisions but the total team failures aren't because he is the wrong hire..not at all.

When this regime first took over they were behind the 8 ball and limited and time challenged on putting a staff together so the pickings were slim.

But Etch was pooched...as was the first OC and now his successor. ***** and moan all you want but Walters and Miller, as well as O'shea have created an environment and organization that is an attractive destination for players now, as well as coaches. If we don't do the norm...blow it all up and start again I think that next year is going to be the start of a run of very good consistent football.

We were hampered severely by what was going on with the offence and the ripple effect of it hindered the defense. Hall as DC is solid and next year will be a continuation with key guys already in place and familiar with things as opposed to a restart and learn as we go situation like this year. So right there things are already better.

Leggett, Westerman, Bass, Wild, Adams, Randle and Johnson would all start on any team right now, or be key rotational guys so we are looking god there. Anderson too will be way better next year. For a big guy it's tough to come back fully after one year from ACL surgery and generally you aren't back to where you were for 2 years. I've gone through it twice personally so trust me on that.

With the pieces we had on offence as is, with a capable and creative OC we should have been an above .500 team. It was such a basic and designed to fail offensive scheme it almost seemed like Bellfiuelle was paid by someone else to screw us over. Routes all run at same depth, no misdirection..no pulling lineman, maybe one outside toss to a RB all year...I could go on and on...It was literally laughable.

Just a new OC alone next year even if we change no personnel we are already better there too.

Add a stud big play receiver, a back to compliment Marshall, and a big mean s.o.b D-lineman and we are a 10 win team next year....score one or two more studs anywhere else on roster...we're laughing

Your right maybe we can just keep our coordinators next year save some money on a HC and sign that big stud receiver.

[bearpants]

Hey, this doesn't work at all!!

[17to85]

 

I do see it. I sure as hell see it. I don't like MB offense any more than you do. However, I also see that he took the fall for the entire fail of the Bomber organization under MIller, Walters & O'Shea which isn't right. 

 

 

..... what? The offense was by far the biggest sore spot on the team and you don't think the OC should have been taking the fall? Come on now Iso, I know you want to fire everyone and blow it all up but the offensive coordinator wasn't a fall guy on this team, he was a guy needing to be fired. We know O'Shea is a good coach because the STs got a lot better when he got more involved and we know players have said they came here because of him. Why fire a guy like that when he has been hampered by a shitty offense for which he fired his offensive coordinator? You need to give people chances to rebound or improve but you seem hell bent on firing people for the first mistakes which doesn't work in the long run. 

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

I do see it. I sure as hell see it. I don't like MB offense any more than you do. However, I also see that he took the fall for the entire fail of the Bomber organization under MIller, Walters & O'Shea which isn't right. 

 

 

..... what? The offense was by far the biggest sore spot on the team and you don't think the OC should have been taking the fall? Come on now Iso, I know you want to fire everyone and blow it all up but the offensive coordinator wasn't a fall guy on this team, he was a guy needing to be fired. We know O'Shea is a good coach because the STs got a lot better when he got more involved and we know players have said they came here because of him. Why fire a guy like that when he has been hampered by a shitty offense for which he fired his offensive coordinator? You need to give people chances to rebound or improve but you seem hell bent on firing people for the first mistakes which doesn't work in the long run. 

 

 

I count at least TWO mistakes.

 

2014

2015

[17to85]

 

 

 

I do see it. I sure as hell see it. I don't like MB offense any more than you do. However, I also see that he took the fall for the entire fail of the Bomber organization under MIller, Walters & O'Shea which isn't right. 

 

 

..... what? The offense was by far the biggest sore spot on the team and you don't think the OC should have been taking the fall? Come on now Iso, I know you want to fire everyone and blow it all up but the offensive coordinator wasn't a fall guy on this team, he was a guy needing to be fired. We know O'Shea is a good coach because the STs got a lot better when he got more involved and we know players have said they came here because of him. Why fire a guy like that when he has been hampered by a shitty offense for which he fired his offensive coordinator? You need to give people chances to rebound or improve but you seem hell bent on firing people for the first mistakes which doesn't work in the long run. 

 

 

I count at least TWO mistakes.

 

2014

2015

 

which is really just one mistake in keeping Bellefool. They tried to spend money on the OL thinking that would help the offense and it didn't so they went to the root of the problem and made that change this year. People need to be patient and don't give me that 25 years crap. Not being patient in that span is the biggest reason why things got as bad as they did. 

[IC Khari]

I do see it. I sure as hell see it. I don't like MB offense any more than you do. However, I also see that he took the fall for the entire fail of the Bomber organization under MIller, Walters & O'Shea which isn't right.

..... what? The offense was by far the biggest sore spot on the team and you don't think the OC should have been taking the fall? Come on now Iso, I know you want to fire everyone and blow it all up but the offensive coordinator wasn't a fall guy on this team, he was a guy needing to be fired. We know O'Shea is a good coach because the STs got a lot better when he got more involved and we know players have said they came here because of him. Why fire a guy like that when he has been hampered by a shitty offense for which he fired his offensive coordinator? You need to give people chances to rebound or improve but you seem hell bent on firing people for the first mistakes which doesn't work in the long run.

I count at least TWO mistakes.

2014

2015

which is really just one mistake in keeping Bellefool. They tried to spend money on the OL thinking that would help the offense and it didn't so they went to the root of the problem and made that change this year. People need to be patient and don't give me that 25 years crap. Not being patient in that span is the biggest reason why things got as bad as they did.

Actually keeping Bellfool and hiring Etch are two mistakes, keeping MB and the ST guy for 2015 are two more. 4 strikes and you're out? The Bombers certainly play by a unique set of rules LOL ...

[TBURGESS]

O'Shea didn't just make a mistake with MB. He made a mistake hiring MB, Tracey and Etch. He made a mistake when he only replaced Etch last offseason.

 

Folks around here want to give O'Shea a pat on the back for hiring Hall but no responsibility for hiring Etch in the first place. BTW: If Hall wanted to stay as a CFL DC, he had no other choice but Winnipeg, so I'm not sure you can call it a great O'Shea hire as much as a good DC was available who had no other choices. They also want to give him an attaboy for firing Tracey mid-season without holding him responsible for either hiring Tracey in the first place or keeping him on after last year. Now they want to say that MB is 'THE' problem on the team and that O'Shea shouldn't bear any responsibility for hiring him or keeping him for 2 years.

 

For me, it's a pattern of O'Shea not realizing that he's made a mistake followed by not admitting his mistakes followed by finally having to get rid of the mistakes. 

[IC Khari]

O'Shea didn't just make a mistake with MB. He made a mistake hiring MB, Tracey and Etch. He made a mistake when he only replaced Etch last offseason.

 

Folks around here want to give O'Shea a pat on the back for hiring Hall but no responsibility for hiring Etch in the first place. BTW: If Hall wanted to stay as a CFL DC, he had no other choice but Winnipeg, so I'm not sure you can call it a great O'Shea hire as much as a good DC was available who had no other choices. They also want to give him an attaboy for firing Tracey mid-season without holding him responsible for either hiring Tracey in the first place or keeping him on after last year. Now they want to say that MB is 'THE' problem on the team and that O'Shea shouldn't bear any responsibility for hiring him or keeping him for 2 years.

 

For me, it's a pattern of O'Shea not realizing that he's made a mistake followed by not admitting his mistakes followed by finally having to get rid of the mistakes.

Aren't there 12 step groups for people with those kinds of patterns of behavior?

[17to85]

Etchevary was clearly a dumpster diving hire though, he was literally the last choice when everyone else turned them down. They didn't waste time upgrading when someone better was available

[TBURGESS]

Etchevary was clearly a dumpster diving hire though, he was literally the last choice when everyone else turned them down. They didn't waste time upgrading when someone better was available

I like experience, but it would have been better to go with an unknown than to hire Etch. A lot of fans knew Etch was a bad choice from the get go because his history pretty much guaranteed failure. I expect the HC to be smarter than most fans so Etch should never have been hired in the first place.

 

Etches defence was clearly a disaster, but O'Shea still got up in front of the mike almost daily and supported him. He even kept Etch on for a while in the off season and tried to get him to change his defence, so they did waste time even after the season before they got rid of him. I wonder if Hall and Benevides hadn't been available if Etch would have been fired at all last year.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I wonder if they put more faith in Osh's defensive mind to compensate Etch's D. It wasnt unrealistic for them to wanna surround Osh with experience being a rookie HC, and the knock on Etch was he was easily figured out by Labour Day, I wonder if they thought Oshea would be hitting a bit of stride by that point and helping shake up the etch-a-sketch board

[TBURGESS]

I wonder if they put more faith in Osh's defensive mind to compensate Etch's D. It wasnt unrealistic for them to wanna surround Osh with experience being a rookie HC, and the knock on Etch was he was easily figured out by Labour Day, I wonder if they thought Oshea would be hitting a bit of stride by that point and helping shake up the etch-a-sketch board

O'Shea's never been a DC so it would be unrealistic for them to expect he'd be able to fix Etch's D by mid-season.

[Booch]

 

O'Shea didn't just make a mistake with MB. He made a mistake hiring MB, Tracey and Etch. He made a mistake when he only replaced Etch last offseason.

 

Folks around here want to give O'Shea a pat on the back for hiring Hall but no responsibility for hiring Etch in the first place. BTW: If Hall wanted to stay as a CFL DC, he had no other choice but Winnipeg, so I'm not sure you can call it a great O'Shea hire as much as a good DC was available who had no other choices. They also want to give him an attaboy for firing Tracey mid-season without holding him responsible for either hiring Tracey in the first place or keeping him on after last year. Now they want to say that MB is 'THE' problem on the team and that O'Shea shouldn't bear any responsibility for hiring him or keeping him for 2 years.

 

For me, it's a pattern of O'Shea not realizing that he's made a mistake followed by not admitting his mistakes followed by finally having to get rid of the mistakes. 

 

There were other options that could have been choosen from...ones that all we needed to do was offer some $$ and make it a non-lateral move from where they were and it could have happened. But they chose Hall, and he didn't come at a low ball salary either. He was a good and I think right hire to re-establish a sense of a usefull CFL defence.

 

There was really nothing wrong with his schemes and his game adjustments, more a matter of a couple players shy of really having a good defence, and the fact that it was a new system and an obvious learning curve for all. Next year I bet people will be raving about or defence. 

 

Pretty sure Oshea knows MB was not the guy to bring us forward but when Willy went down we were handcuffed (especially before we got Nichols) and trying to install a new system amd philosophy with a stable of relative rookie or green to the CFL quarterbacks and not really being experienced with what to look for, how to attack and how to adjust to the Canadian game would have been an utter disaster of massive proportions and would have hurt us moving forward bigtime and made this place look like a looney bin organization.

 

Sticking with MB was the only choice and Oshea used great judgement and a set of balls to take the heat and if it came to it fall on the sword for the organization and his players. One of the reasons that he is loved and respected by players, and not just on the Bombers and why guys never really quit on him. The players we want to keep never did and the few that looked like they were slacking off are probably already decided upon as not being back anyway. 

 

The fault of this team for years has been to keep throwing consistancy and dedicated time into things, bringing us to where we are the last decade.

[The Unknown Poster]

I think its worth keeping MOS one more season.  But if his next OC isnt any better, then how can you not fire MOS.  You cant keep firing coaches and give the HC a pass.  And if MOS gets fired, Walters ends up potentially on the same chopping block.  *maybe* he gets one more HC hire but realistically, if the OC (and/or DC and/or STC) dont work out and end up canned and MOS ends up canned, we're talking about an awful lot of coaches that cycled through and didnt work out...right or wrong it ends up on Walter's doorstep.

[Bigblue204]

 

I wonder if they put more faith in Osh's defensive mind to compensate Etch's D. It wasnt unrealistic for them to wanna surround Osh with experience being a rookie HC, and the knock on Etch was he was easily figured out by Labour Day, I wonder if they thought Oshea would be hitting a bit of stride by that point and helping shake up the etch-a-sketch board

O'Shea's never been a DC so it would be unrealistic for them to expect he'd be able to fix Etch's D by mid-season.

 

 

I disagree. Due to his experience as a player. He has been a part of some great defenses. And if you hear his former team mates speak, he was basically a coach on the field. He knows the CFL defense and could design one if needed. I have a hard time believing a future HOF MLB wouldn't know how. Especially one that spent basically his entire life around the Canadian game.