Paris Attacks

[The Unknown Poster]

Russia could respond militarily.  They likely wont but could.  What's Turkey going to do, call on it's NATO allies to defend it?  And the US will respond with military consequences against Russia?  Things like this is what could escalate this whole region into something bigger.  I guess.  I really dont know.  Turkey doesnt sound like a lovely regime.  But they are a NATO ally?  Its one thing for Russia to violate their airspace after repeated warnings (they've threatened the same in our airspace and the US) and to be shot down...but to murder the pilot?  And to fire upon a rescue chopper?  That's not "defending our airspace".

[bigg jay]

I don't believe the Turkish armed forces shot at the pilot.  From what I've read, they did bring the plane down but it was rebels on the Syrian side of the border that shot at the pilot & rescue chopper.

[The Unknown Poster]

I don't believe the Turkish armed forces shot at the pilot.  From what I've read, they did bring the plane down but it was rebels on the Syrian side of the border that shot at the pilot & rescue chopper.

Arent those rebels US backed?

 

Too much idiotic politics in the region.  Nothing is black and white, right or wrong.  And the world will never agree.  We need aliens to come down here and force us all to see the bigger picture.

[iso_55]

Russia could respond militarily.  They likely wont but could.  What's Turkey going to do, call on it's NATO allies to defend it?  And the US will respond with military consequences against Russia?  Things like this is what could escalate this whole region into something bigger.  I guess.  I really dont know.  Turkey doesnt sound like a lovely regime.  But they are a NATO ally?  Its one thing for Russia to violate their airspace after repeated warnings (they've threatened the same in our airspace and the US) and to be shot down...but to murder the pilot?  And to fire upon a rescue chopper?  That's not "defending our airspace".

Animals. 

[bigg jay]

The Unknown Poster, on 25 Nov 2015 - 3:06 PM, said:

 

 

I don't believe the Turkish armed forces shot at the pilot.  From what I've read, they did bring the plane down but it was rebels on the Syrian side of the border that shot at the pilot & rescue chopper.

 

Arent those rebels US backed?

 

Too much idiotic politics in the region.  Nothing is black and white, right or wrong.  And the world will never agree.  We need aliens to come down here and force us all to see the bigger picture.

 

 

I have read some reports saying that but there's apparently around a dozen rebel groups operating in that area so who knows if that's true for some, any or all of those groups?

[The Unknown Poster]

Sometimes the devil you know is better. Even a vile dictator. If he keeps the even more evil people in check. Terrible thought though.

[basslicker]

Sometimes the devil you know is better. Even a vile dictator. If he keeps the even more evil people in check. Terrible thought though.

I'd side with Russia before turkey.

[Mark F]

don't know if this is correct, and not that those people care but

 

"Attacking people parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

 

 

Things like this is what could escalate this whole region into something bigger.

 

 

exactly.

[kelownabomberfan]

Sometimes the devil you know is better. Even a vile dictator. If he keeps the even more evil people in check. Terrible thought though.

I'd side with Russia before turkey.

Russia should take over Turkey and rename it Chicken.

[The Unknown Poster]

Sometimes the devil you know is better. Even a vile dictator. If he keeps the even more evil people in check. Terrible thought though.

I'd side with Russia before turkey.

Russia should take over Turkey and rename it Chicken.

Post of the year.

[kelownabomberfan]

I wish I could claim credit but I stole it from this guy:

Go to the 4 minute mark.

[The Unknown Poster]

This can't be true. People kept saying one had no effect on the other.

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau conceded his government altered its plans to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees to accommodate the changed perceptions about risk after the terrorist attacks in Paris two weeks ago."

[Mark H.]

This can't be true. People kept saying one had no effect on the other.

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau conceded his government altered its plans to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees to accommodate the changed perceptions about risk after the terrorist attacks in Paris two weeks ago."

 

The process will take two months longer than originally stated - I'm feeling snug, secure, warm and fuzzy.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

Sometimes the devil you know is better. Even a vile dictator. If he keeps the even more evil people in check. Terrible thought though.

I'd side with Russia before turkey.

Russia should take over Turkey and rename it Chicken.

Post of the year.

 

Everything I've read says the Turkish Air Force shot that Russian plane down not any Rebel group. Turkey said that the Russian Jet was in their airspace & was warned up to 10 times before being brought down. Russia denies all of this. 

[bigg jay]

 

 

 

 

Sometimes the devil you know is better. Even a vile dictator. If he keeps the even more evil people in check. Terrible thought though.

I'd side with Russia before turkey.

Russia should take over Turkey and rename it Chicken.

Post of the year.

 

Everything I've read says the Turkish Air Force shot that Russian plane down not any Rebel group. Turkey said that the Russian Jet was in their airspace & was warned up to 10 times before being brought down. Russia denies all of this. 

 

 

Unless I missed something, everyone here agrees that Turkey shot the plane down?  Rebels then shot at the pilots who had ejected from the plane (as well as the chopper sent in to rescue them).

 

Turkey has released audio of the the incident, showing that there were multiple warnings over a five minute period before the plane was brought down.  Whether or not the audio is legit, depends on who you believe I guess.  Something like that wouldn't be hard to make after the fact.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34929242

[The Unknown Poster]

I have no trouble believing the Russian Jet ignored warnings.  They have a habit of pushing the line with other nations' airspace.  And if Im recalling correctly, they have done things like fly too close to other jets, buzz naval ships etc.  They seemed to like pushing the bounds and thinking no one would fire at the Russians.  Well someone did and it put the pilots in a tragic situation.

 

No excuse for rebels to murder the pilots.  But Putin likely has little else to blame but the arrogance of his own airforce.  Perhaps they will stop thumbing their nose at other nations as a result of this.  On the other hand, if they decide to reign vengeance down upon Turkey or the rebels (and I assume they will use this as an excuse to fight US-backed rebels), I guess they can.  And when Turkey and/or the rebels call in for help from their American allies, what happens then?

 

Putin isnt likely to start World War III, I dont think.  But he will leverage his threats to get a bigger piece of the world pie.  Then again, Im just speculating.

[bigg jay]

I don't believe the Russians either.  This incident was brewing for a while as the Russians have had numerous warnings/complaints over this type of thing in this exact area.  

 

 

NATO has been grappling with Russia's non-compliance since Oct. 5. That's when the North Atlantic Council held another special meeting, which Turkey requested because it had information on Russian airspace violations, Buck said.

 

"It was for a defined period of time, relatively limited, but very, very serious, to fly over somebody's air space without giving them any kind of warning," said Buck.

 

"In that instance as well, Russia apparently didn't respond to Turkish hailing frequencies so that prompted the Turks over the course of the last month to send some very clear messages ... to Russia about the need to respect their transparency obligations."

[Fatty Liver]

 

I don't believe the Russians either.  This incident was brewing for a while as the Russians have had numerous warnings/complaints over this type of thing in this exact area.  

 

 

NATO has been grappling with Russia's non-compliance since Oct. 5. That's when the North Atlantic Council held another special meeting, which Turkey requested because it had information on Russian airspace violations, Buck said.

 

"It was for a defined period of time, relatively limited, but very, very serious, to fly over somebody's air space without giving them any kind of warning," said Buck.

 

"In that instance as well, Russia apparently didn't respond to Turkish hailing frequencies so that prompted the Turks over the course of the last month to send some very clear messages ... to Russia about the need to respect their transparency obligations."

 

 

One thing I heard is that Turkey wasn't all that happy about the Russia attacking that region or the people that live along that border in the first place.  As mentioned previously it's not black and white and the borders in that region mean little as the people on both sides of it are basically the same.

[bigg jay]

That's true.  Russia has accused Turkey of being pro-terrorism for taking down the plane but Russia wasn't going after ISIS (who currently is not operating in that area).  Instead, they targeted rebels who are against the Syrian regime which goes against Russian interests. 

[The Unknown Poster]

From CNN:

 

Turkey has repeatedly said it shot down the Russian warplane on Tuesday only after it ignored several warnings and entered Turkish airspace.

 

Russia has contested the claim, and its rescued co-pilot Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin told state media that "there were no warnings -- not via the radio, not visually." Turkey's military has released audio it says proves its claim; Russia has yet to address the audio.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said the Russian plane was attacked a kilometer inside Syrian territory, while Erdogan says it crashed in Turkey, injuring two people.

 

Who believes Russia?

[kelownabomberfan]

I have no trouble believing the Russian Jet ignored warnings.  They have a habit of pushing the line with other nations' airspace.

But can they do a 4G inverted dive?

[The Unknown Poster]

CNN

 

Washington (CNN)President Barack Obama's former top military intelligence official said Tuesday that the White House ignored reports prefacing the rise of ISIS in 2011 and 2012 because they did not fit its re-election "narrative."

 

"I think that they did not meet a narrative the White House needed. And I'll be very candid with you, they just didn't," retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, the former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency

 

Flynn, who has been critical of both Obama's and former President George W. Bush's handling of the Iraq War and involvement in the Middle East, said that Obama was served poorly by a small circle of advisers who were worried about his re-election prospects at the time.

 

The story they needed to tell, he said, was that pulling troops from Iraq would not leave the region vulnerable to the rise of a radical Islamic group like ISIS.

"I think the narrative was that al Qaeda was on the run, and (Osama) bin Laden was dead. ... They're dead and these guys are, we've beaten them," Flynn said -- but the problem was that no matter how many terrorist leaders they killed, they "continue to just multiply."

 

Obama has been criticized by opponents for referring to ISIS as the "JV squad" and apparently underestimating the group's threat. The Pentagon's inspector general is investigating complaints that top intelligence officials manipulated reports to make the threat of ISIS look minimal.

 

Flynn also warned that an attack like the one conducted in Paris was likely at some point in the U.S.

 

"I really do believe it's a matter of time, I believe, there's going to be where our luck is going to run out and they're are going to be able to achieve something along the lines of what we saw in Paris," Flynn said.

 

Flynn told the German news outlet Der Spiegel on Sunday that removing Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Moammar Gadhafi in Libya destabilized the region.

"It was huge error. As brutal as Saddam Hussein was, it was a mistake to just eliminate him. The same is true for Moammar Gadhafi and for Libya, which is now a failed state. The historic lesson is that it was a strategic failure to go into Iraq. History will not be and should not be kind with that decision," Flynn said.

 

The answer to ISIS, Flynn told Tapper, should be the creation of an "Arab NATO" organized among U.S. allies in the region, with a parceling of duties to take out ISIS.

 

"I do believe that there has to be some type of Arab NATO-like structure formed, so there has to be a recognition that the Arab community in that particular region ... that gets after this problem," Flynn said, adding that the U.S. would have to lead the group with support from Russia and Europe.

[The Unknown Poster]

ISIS releases a new video in which a militant beheads an alleged Russian spy and threatens Russia.

 

(CNN)After the November 13 terror attacks in Paris, France asked its allies to bump up their military offensive against ISIS. Now Britain and Germany will decide whether they will.

 

The parliaments of both countries are debating their leaders' requests for greater military commitment against the terror group. And the measures are expected to be approved.

 

The UK proposal would add British warplanes to the airstrike campaign against ISIS inside Syria. Currently, the UK is carrying out airstrikes only in Iraq.

 

The German plan would activate 1,200 troops in anti-ISIS efforts, but in a support role, not direct combat.

[The Unknown Poster]

Is it just me or does Obama seem really out of touch?

 

Washington (CNN)President Barack Obama said in an interview that aired Thursday that he is confident the U.S. is safe from a Paris-style attack from ISIS and that American law enforcement is well equipped to protect the nation during the holidays.

 

"ISIL will not pose an existential threat to us. They are a dangerous organization like al Qaeda was, but we have hardened our defenses," Obama told CBS. "The American people should feel confident that, you know, we are going to be able to defend ourselves and make sure that, you know, we have a good holiday and go about our lives."

 

His comments came amid reports that the FBI is investigating ISIS sympathizers across the nation and a new study shows support for the terrorist group has reached unprecedented levels domestically. But Obama called for calm and said that terrorists and ISIS "only win if we start reacting out of fear."

 

Obama also told CBS that when he promised "no boots on the ground" in the fight against ISIS, that Americans understood him to mean no "battalions," and not that he wouldn't send any troops there at all.

 

"When I said 'no boots on the ground,' I think the American people understood generally we are not going to do an Iraq-style invasion of Iraq or Syria with battalions that are moving across the desert," Obama said in another clip CBS aired Thursday.