Paris Attacks

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

 

 

So what's the difference between their views on homosexuality and the "Christian right", who are already embedded in N.A.???  Neither group is stupid enough to openly attack gays.

 

 

I like you guys.  I really do.  But honestly, the naivete on this subject is really telling.  Just because our media doesn't have the balls to report on it, doesn't mean that it isn't happening.  Hell, even when it's plain to everyone that the cause of a terrorist attack is "Islamic militants", they still refuse to use those words.  Our media is trapped in fear, fear of retribution from the people Bill Maher talked about in that Youtube video I posted from our politically correct establishment (see some who even post here, using words like xenophobia and racist etc to shout down discussion), and fear of being attacked and killed like Charlie Hebdo.  They can't win.

Ali Muhammad Brown, the radical Muslim accused of murdering four people near Seattle and in New Jersey, has confessed and said the acts were retaliation for U.S. foreign policy. This is no longer solely an Islamist hate crime; it’s an act of Islamist terrorism.

 

It is now believed that Brown’s murder spree began on April 27 with the drive-by shooting of Leroy Henderson in Seattle.

Then on June 1, Brown allegedly murdered two homosexuals near Seattle, Ahmed Said and Dwone Anderson-Young, after he lured them into a trap using a gay dating phone app.

 

The latter two deaths were described as an execution and they were deliberately targeted because of their sexual orientation. It is suspected that he chose Said as a victim because of his Muslim name, making his homosexual lifestyle exponentially more offensive to Brown.

This was the second anti-gay attack by a radical Muslim in the Seattle area this year. Another Islamist tried to burn down a nightclub frequented by gays on New Year’s Eve. Islamist doctrine holds that the punishment for homosexuality is death.

 

Brown escaped to N.J. and murdered Brendan Tevlin on June 25. Four days later, he robbed a man at a coffee shop in Point Pleasant, but spared his life. Brown was apprehended on July 18 at a homeless shelter.

Brown has confessed to the murders and made it clear that he had terroristic motivations. This was not just a hate crime against gays or a typical murder spree. It was an act of terrorism, morally indistinguishable from the Fort Hood shooting or the Boston Marathon bombings.

“[When a] man sees evil, then he must take action against that evil,” he explained.

Brown said that the “evil” he was responding to was U.S. actions towards Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Iran.

“All these lives are taken every single day by America, by this government. So a life for a life,” he said.

Brown said his violence was not purely political in nature. His religious views permitted it. He said, “My mission is my mission between men and my Lord.”

He said his murder of Tevlin, only 19 years old, is a “just kill” because he is an adult male and no women, children or elderly persons were put in danger.

Brown may have links to other Islamist terrorists. He reportedly attended a jihadist training camp in California, but there is no information available that is more specific. The court documents have not confirmed that report.

 

 

 

That's an example of one persons actions and statistically insignificant but it does not predicate that if Canada brought in 25,000 refugees the gay population would be in any greater danger then they currently live with.  Unless an organized group executed a successful attack on a gay pride parade, the numbers would remain statistically insignificant.  Imo murder is murder and hate is hate, is it any different if individual murder is committed within a family as is so often the case or driven by ideological hate of a specific colour, race, religion or sexual orientation?  

 

I would like nothing more then to see murder eliminated but the logical place to start is with government sanctioned murder.  If governments neither financed (through tax $), bombed nor supplied competing populations with military grade weapons and technologies most of these geo-political problems would be reduced to skirmishes in the desert.  No way in hell they would ever do that though as it would greatly reduce arms sales.

[The Unknown Poster]

KBF raised a good point.  And it becomes really sensitive.  I saw one big discussion about a comedian who  posted a pretty passionate rant on FB and from what I can tell the "worst" thing he wrote was questioning the "God" these attackers felt they were doing this for and he was kicked off FB and labeled an Islamaphobe. 

 

One of my friends, in the wake of the attacks made a post about how her thoughts were with the Muslim people.  And I understand her sentiment but it struck me a bit...I think my first thoughts would be with the dead and injured.  I dont recall too many instances when the Westboro Church nuts did something crazy and people said their thoughts were with the poor Christians who will be labelled and vilified as a result.

 

On the other hand, you do have bigoted people who burnt down a Mosque in Peterborough and verbally and physically attack Muslims or people they think are Muslims.  And thats what ISIS wants.

 

I read an article about CBC's policy to not use the word "terrorism" to describe attacks unless reporting on specific usage of that word by people.  There does seem to be a sense of not wanting to hurt the feelings of Muslim's who, I would expect, would be furious that their religion was being hijacked by crazies.

[Logan007]

You know what I find hilarious.  That a bunch of you are such knee jerk reactionists that you're so filled with fear that you want to ATTACK NOW!  And you whine about how Trudeau seems to be doing nothing.  You know what I find is great about Trudeau.  That he's not reacting like some macho "we're going to get those terrorists" guy.  Because being reactionary towards this is exactly what the terrorists want.  They want the leaders to attack.  They want to fight and strike fear.  And Trudeau isn't giving them the satisfaction.  He's trying to show that it's business as usual and he's not showing fear towards these threats.  To react, to throw up more security, to attack...shows fear, not strength.  These are all things that terrorists want. 

 

Let me ask you something.  How much more security do you need until you feel safe?  Security camera's everywhere watching everything you do?  In your home, in your phone...listening to whatever is done or said?  Scanners that you have to walk through to go into a mall, a school...your own house?  How much fear do they have to instill into you before you allow all of your freedoms to vanish?  Before you're scared to leave this country...then the city...then your own home?  What happens if your kids befriend a refugees kids...how long before you get scared because they are in your house?

 

Yeah, it's a scary world, especially when this happens, but to react to it and freak out and ***** that we should bomb the hell out of ISIS...well to me that's just giving into fear and terrorism.

[The Unknown Poster]

You know what I find hilarious.  That a bunch of you are such knee jerk reactionists that you're so filled with fear that you want to ATTACK NOW!  And you whine about how Trudeau seems to be doing nothing.  You know what I find is great about Trudeau.  That he's not reacting like some macho "we're going to get those terrorists" guy.  Because being reactionary towards this is exactly what the terrorists want.  They want the leaders to attack.  They want to fight and strike fear.  And Trudeau isn't giving them the satisfaction.  He's trying to show that it's business as usual and he's not showing fear towards these threats.  To react, to throw up more security, to attack...shows fear, not strength.  These are all things that terrorists want. 

 

Let me ask you something.  How much more security do you need until you feel safe?  Security camera's everywhere watching everything you do?  In your home, in your phone...listening to whatever is done or said?  Scanners that you have to walk through to go into a mall, a school...your own house?  How much fear do they have to instill into you before you allow all of your freedoms to vanish?  Before you're scared to leave this country...then the city...then your own home?  What happens if your kids befriend a refugees kids...how long before you get scared because they are in your house?

 

Yeah, it's a scary world, especially when this happens, but to react to it and freak out and ***** that we should bomb the hell out of ISIS...well to me that's just giving into fear and terrorism.

Who was saying the things you are accusing "a bunch of" us of?

 

I dont think its remotely unrealistic to expect strong leadership in the wake of an attack like this.  Its very partisan.  If you like Justin, you probably think he's being "calm, measured, reasonable, non-reactionary, business-as-usual".  If you dont like him, you think he's being "immature, irresponsible" and neglecting his duties.  make no mistake though, if Harper was PM, his every move would be just as scrutinized.  This is the first major issue for the new PM and its fair and expected that he will be looked to for a response.  I havent seen anyone overly critical of him.

 

So when people talk about not politicizing it, it's always politicized.  Its not unreasonable for people to feel fear and anguish.  They look to their leaders for reassurance.  

 

On the subject of the 25,000 refugees, opinions vary.  But its not unreasonable that people have concerns about the government's plan.  If you disagree, that's your opinion but to pretend everyone else is just crazy and reactionary is silly since people had concerns before the Paris attacks and quite honestly, the attack *does* change things to a degree.  it would be silly not to reevaluate given new information.  Its the responsible thing to do.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

That's an example of one persons actions and statistically insignificant 

 

 

LOL.  Oh boy. Did you ever stop and think that the reason this attack on gay people is "statistically insignificant" is because rarely are they even reported, and if they are, there is no mention that the motivation was religious-based hatred? (Islam being the religion).  Ok, here we go.

 

In the notoriously leftwing media, Muslim trumps gay. Surprised? Don’t be. In numerous Muslim on gay crimes in uber-left Seattle and America’s gay capital San Francisco, when Muslims attack gays, the media and the law enforcement protect — the Muslims. Their ideology, their motive is never questioned, analyzed or spoken of.

Cases in point: San Francisco District Attorney and the San Francisco media covered up a string of gay beatings by a Muslim gang. Gays were videotaped being shot in the face, and the priority of the DA was to hush up the crimes and strong-arm the media into not reporting them.

In Seattle, Ali Muhammad Brown was charged with executing two gay men. Brown was previously prosecuted federally, following an FBI probe into an Islamic group suspected of supporting jihadists overseas. But his religion, his motive, was carefully scrubbed from news reports.

A gay nightclub was doused in gasoline and set ablaze on New Year’s eve by a devout Muslim. Again the jihadist’s religion, his motive, was carefully scrubbed from the media and law enforcement reports.

This report, too, negates the motive, the root of his hate. Islam.

 

 

Cops are hunting for a “career criminal” who bashed a gay couple over the head with a chair at a Chelsea barbecue joint, officials said Tuesday.

Police said Bayna El-Amin, 41, was wanted in connection with the May 5 beating at the Dallas BBQ at 261 8th Ave.

Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said El-Amin is believed to be on the run.

“He is a career criminal,” Boyce said. “We believe he has fled the state.”

Video from the eatery shows a man smash a wooden chair over a gay couple, knocking them both to the ground.

 

Police say Bayna El-Amin is the man responsible for bashing a gay man over the head with a chair at the Dallas BBQ in Chelsea earlier this month.

The victims in the attack were Jonathan Snipes, 32, and Ethan York-Adams, 25, police sources said.

The beating came after the attacker lobbed several anti-gay slurs at the men.

Patricia Snipes, of Birmingham, Ala., said her son was experiencing severe pain in his back.

“At least he was not killed,” she said, noting she talked to her son’s friend Tuesday. “It could have been very, very bad.”

 

She said she watched the video from the restaurant nearly 1,000 miles away with great difficulty.

“It was hard to look at,” she said. “I looked through it all. In my heart I’m having a very difficult time. There’s nothing I can do right now. All I can do is pray.”

“I’m proud to be his mother and I’m worried to death about him,” she said.

 

 

- See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2015/05/video-muslim-attacks-gay-couple-in-ny-restaurant.html/#sthash.nVwD1i9I.dpuf

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

That's an example of one persons actions and statistically insignificant 

 

 

LOL.  Oh boy. Did you ever stop and think that the reason this attack on gay people is "statistically insignificant" is because rarely are they even reported, and if they are, there is no mention that the motivation was religious-based hatred? (Islam being the religion).  Ok, here we go.

 

In the notoriously leftwing media, Muslim trumps gay. Surprised? Don’t be. In numerous Muslim on gay crimes in uber-left Seattle and America’s gay capital San Francisco, when Muslims attack gays, the media and the law enforcement protect — the Muslims. Their ideology, their motive is never questioned, analyzed or spoken of.

Cases in point: San Francisco District Attorney and the San Francisco media covered up a string of gay beatings by a Muslim gang. Gays were videotaped being shot in the face, and the priority of the DA was to hush up the crimes and strong-arm the media into not reporting them.

In Seattle, Ali Muhammad Brown was charged with executing two gay men. Brown was previously prosecuted federally, following an FBI probe into an Islamic group suspected of supporting jihadists overseas. But his religion, his motive, was carefully scrubbed from news reports.

A gay nightclub was doused in gasoline and set ablaze on New Year’s eve by a devout Muslim. Again the jihadist’s religion, his motive, was carefully scrubbed from the media and law enforcement reports.

This report, too, negates the motive, the root of his hate. Islam.

 

 

Cops are hunting for a “career criminal” who bashed a gay couple over the head with a chair at a Chelsea barbecue joint, officials said Tuesday.

Police said Bayna El-Amin, 41, was wanted in connection with the May 5 beating at the Dallas BBQ at 261 8th Ave.

Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said El-Amin is believed to be on the run.

“He is a career criminal,” Boyce said. “We believe he has fled the state.”

Video from the eatery shows a man smash a wooden chair over a gay couple, knocking them both to the ground.

 

Police say Bayna El-Amin is the man responsible for bashing a gay man over the head with a chair at the Dallas BBQ in Chelsea earlier this month.

The victims in the attack were Jonathan Snipes, 32, and Ethan York-Adams, 25, police sources said.

The beating came after the attacker lobbed several anti-gay slurs at the men.

Patricia Snipes, of Birmingham, Ala., said her son was experiencing severe pain in his back.

“At least he was not killed,” she said, noting she talked to her son’s friend Tuesday. “It could have been very, very bad.”

 

She said she watched the video from the restaurant nearly 1,000 miles away with great difficulty.

“It was hard to look at,” she said. “I looked through it all. In my heart I’m having a very difficult time. There’s nothing I can do right now. All I can do is pray.”

“I’m proud to be his mother and I’m worried to death about him,” she said.

 

 

- See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2015/05/video-muslim-attacks-gay-couple-in-ny-restaurant.html/#sthash.nVwD1i9I.dpuf

 

 

Pamela Geller?  Really???  This is the woman who organized the “Draw Muhammad” cartoon contest in Texas and then took no responsibility for the carnage that predictably ensued.  She is currently attempting to organize similar events but probably can not find a venue or community willing to host them.

 

You're more credible referencing Ezra and his "shiny pony" rhetoric than referencing her.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

Pamela Geller?  Really??? 

 

 

So what are you saying? That those Muslim men didn't attack those gay people?  I never understand why people attack the source rather than the content, other than because they have no other argument. 

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

And KBF, the source you just posted is from someone who has been associated with hate groups against muslims. She is not credible. If you want to post information to prove people's naivete, find a reputable source, maybe something peer reviewed because the ideas you are forwarding are pretty serious, you better be damn sure they are credible. 

 

 

Reputable to who?  You?  I honestly don't care what you think is reputable and what isn't.  Once again, we have the apologists here making excuses, rather than acknowledging the obvious.  It's quite the vicious circle.  Muslim men attack gay people.  Mainstream media doesn't report it out of fear, both from the politically correct agenda types, and from actual Muslims like the Charlie Hebdo attack.  So others report the attacks.  And of course, these people are dismissed as "not reputable" by the apologists, so therefore what they are saying must be ignored, despite the fact that they are reporting actual documented attacks.  What a neat little way to just ignore an issue and a problem, until bombs start going off in major cities, and everyone stands around shrugging and wondering how it could happen.

 

You guys do have a point though, regarding attacks on gay people.  Though a lot are undocumented, the gay attacks are a small part of the bigger puzzle.  I highly recommend reading Ayan Hirsi Ali's book "Infidel", though I assume the politically correct Gestapo here will once again deem her work "unacceptable" as it isn't endorsed by leftists and isn't a feel good whitewash of the actual truth.  Hirsi Ali writes from the perspective of a Muslim woman who escaped out of a life of genital mutilation and forced marriage (to a Canadian, which is scary in an of itself, given how much we pride ourselves on our multicultural feel good sensitivities).  She talks in her book about all of the honor killings that were covered up by the Netherlands legal system, purely out of political correctness.  It's easy to bury things that aren't politically correct, and it's easy to cry "racist!!" when someone tries to talk about them.  It's not so easy to actually keep your mind open, and think about the implications of introducing a sharia law type mindset to a multicultural society.

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

Pamela Geller?  Really??? 

 

 

So what are you saying? That those Muslim men didn't attack those gay people?  I never understand why people attack the source rather than the content, other than because they have no other argument. 

 

 

What I'm saying is that highlighting these murders for their particular motivation is pointless when they are floating in a vast sea of murders that have equally inexcusable motivations.

 

As for attacking the source, the agenda of the presenter has to be taken into consideration when vetting their message.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

What I'm saying is that highlighting these murders for their particular motivation is pointless

 

 

OK.  You started saying that these attacks didn't happen.  When I pointed out actual examples of them happening, you attacked the messenger.  Now you are saying that even though these attacks do exist, it is pointless to consider them.  I don't get it.  But I've never understood apologists.

[kelownabomberfan]

Another non-reputable source...

 

 

London Muslim Patrols Wanted by Police for Gay Hate Attack

Police have issued an appeal after a man was subjected to a stream of homophobic abuse in the street by a Muslim patrol for contravening strict Sharia law.

Scotland Yard is investigating a video clip uploaded to YouTube in which a man calls a fellow pedestrian "a ***" and is asked to leave the area.

 

During the clip which was filmed by the attacker at night, the passer-by, who is carrying a shoulder bag, is seemingly targeted because of the shoes he is wearing.

"Don't you know this is a Muslim area?" the victim is asked by the Muslim patrol.

He is then asked three times "what's wrong with your face. Why are you dressed like that?"

The Muslim patrol then tells the man he has to leave.

"Get out of here, you're walking through a Muslim area dressed like a *** mate. You need to get out of here.

"Look at your shoes, you're dirty. You bloody ***. Don't stay here no more. Look at you, you mug."

During the exchange, an accomplice's voice can be heard repeating "homosexual."

 

The victim did not stop walking along the street, the name of which has yet to be identified by the police.

Calling for the man to come forward, detective chief inspector Wendy Morgan from Tower Hamlets borough said: "The Met takes such homophobic behaviour very seriously.

"This man is a crucial witness in the investigation and would encourage him and anyone else with information relating to this incident to make contact in confidence as soon as possible."

Muslim patrols on London streets have made headlines around the world, after a slew of shocking videos emerged of young men harassing pedestrians in the east of the city by claiming Sharia law was in force.

Radical preacher Anjem Choudary has defended members of a patrol in Whitechapel, who triggered online outrage after being arrested for assault and grievous bodily harm.

 

Choudary told IBTimes UK: "There is a clash between Islam and liberal democracy in hotspots areas of London.

"There is a prevalence of prostitution and drunkenness in London and the police are not dealing with it. The problem is so widespread that I'm not surprised more Muslims are not taking it into their hands."

Choudary called for the patrol be commended.

 

A total of four people have been arrested in connection with the incident on suspicion of suspicion of grievous bodily harm and public order offences.

On Thursday (January 24) a 25-year-old man and a 29-year-old man was held were held at an east London police station.

Ealier, two other men, A 22-year-old and a 19-year-old were held, were arrested over the YouTube clips.

 



[Rich]

This thread is hanging on a thread before being locked if people can't post respectfully.

[The Unknown Poster]

This thread is hanging on a thread before being locked if people can't post respectfully.

Shame.  There is some good discussion.  Hate seeing posts get deleted but sometimes people cant handle mature dialogue and want to pick fights...over the internet, which is utterly cowardly.  Im enjoying KBF's and TLB's discussion though.  Dont have to agree to respect the dialogue. 

[iso_55]

We need to have discussions like this so I hope this thread stays open. 

[The Unknown Poster]

We need to have discussions like this so I hope this thread stays open. 

Whats kind of funny is, someone side tracked it based on a side issue that I mentioned rather than discussing the main topic.  The point was to cherry pick side topics to try and "win" an argument to make it seem they were correct about the main topic.

 

I dont think it's unreasonable for people to be concerned about inviting 25,000 refugees into Canada in a timeline some experts say is unreasonable when the enemy has promised to hide operatives among refugees and Canada has already appeared on their list of preferred targets for attack.  Some people dont like my use of the term "common sense" but I think it applied.

Feel free to disagree ofcourse.  But anyone resorting to calling poster's racist or akin to those that burned down a Mosque is playing to the lowest and weakest aspect of any argument. 

[kelownabomberfan]

Anyone who is interested in hearing more from and about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, here's a good interview with her in which she gives her opinion on what has to change in the Muslim world (of course I expect the source to be attacked yet again):

And here's a dated yet funny interview with Hirsi Ali and the ultra-leftist Avi Lewis, who has his politically correct mind blown as his viewpoint is totally destroyed by her, as newsflash Avi, she's actually lived this life you are trying to defend, and escaped from it. Avi has a hard time with his misguided beliefs being challenged, yet of course, he just sloughs it off rather than consider a different view, which is no different than every other hard-core leftist (or hard-core right-winger) I've ever met...

[Goalie]

I don't want to be this guy but does anyone ever look at from the other perspective here? I mean, I'm not saying what these guys did in Paris was cool, It's not and it's awful but... do we ever stop to think why they are doing this? Like, what made them hate the west so much? 

 

I mean, we got news stations like CNN reporting this stuff 24 7... that's fine but... do they report things when the USA or someone like that goes in to Syria lets say or Iraq let's say or Afghanistan even and drops a bomb on a bunch of innocent people? I mean, I think what ISIS stands for is awful and they are terrible people but are they really worse than the Americans who drop bombs or blow up things in their countires? Who stick their noses where it doesn't belong? Who have been trying to wipe these countries out since pretty much the Persian Gulf War... This stuff goes back a long time, it started back then... anyone who doesn't believe so, you are listening to the american based media a little too much.. They never talk about all the innocent civilians and kids that the americans have killed over the years... they don't talk about americans blowing up schools or things like this, churches... etc... They only tell you one side of the story, I'm not saying that what these "terrorists" did is right, but in a small kind of way, I can almost understand their reasoning behind it. I mean, how would you feel, if you lived on that side of the world and for 25 30 years, you go to bed with bombs dropping on your neighbors.. You know, some days in Canada, we can't go to school because of a blizzard, over there they can't because the Americans or Whoever blew up their damn school. 

 

I'm not saying i agree with what ISIS is doing or what they are all about, I really don't but at the same time, put yourself in their shoes for a minute...

 

People make a big deal out of 911 and yeah it was awful but 911 has happened 100's of times in these places every year for 30 years pretty much.

 

And people think going to war with them or dropping bombs is the answer? when in reality, going to war and dropping bombs on them is actually what started all this 25 30 years ago?  Mind Boggling stuff really when you actually think about it. 

 

I've tried to understand for a long time why people would strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up and take out people with them.. I think i've finally got it, cuz you know what... For years it's because bombs have been dropped on them, they are going to die one way or the other so take some people out with them i guess is their logic... Think about it... 

 

WAR is not the answer or the solution, it's the problem. 

[sweep the leg]

 

This thread is hanging on a thread before being locked if people can't post respectfully.

Shame.  There is some good discussion.  Hate seeing posts get deleted but sometimes people cant handle mature dialogue and want to pick fights...over the internet, which is utterly cowardly.  Im enjoying KBF's and TLB's discussion though.  Dont have to agree to respect the dialogue. 

 

Be the bigger person and avoid the confrontation, rather than bogging down the thread. Respect the dialogue...

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

This thread is hanging on a thread before being locked if people can't post respectfully.

Shame.  There is some good discussion.  Hate seeing posts get deleted but sometimes people cant handle mature dialogue and want to pick fights...over the internet, which is utterly cowardly.  Im enjoying KBF's and TLB's discussion though.  Dont have to agree to respect the dialogue. 

 

Be the bigger person and avoid the confrontation, rather than bogging down the thread. Respect the dialogue...

 

Yes, I agree!  if you go back a page or two you'll see an apology I issued to PCB.  You wont find his reply as its been deleted for content.

[The Unknown Poster]

I don't want to be this guy but does anyone ever look at from the other perspective here? I mean, I'm not saying what these guys did in Paris was cool, It's not and it's awful but... do we ever stop to think why they are doing this? Like, what made them hate the west so much? 

 

I mean, we got news stations like CNN reporting this stuff 24 7... that's fine but... do they report things when the USA or someone like that goes in to Syria lets say or Iraq let's say or Afghanistan even and drops a bomb on a bunch of innocent people? I mean, I think what ISIS stands for is awful and they are terrible people but are they really worse than the Americans who drop bombs or blow up things in their countires? Who stick their noses where it doesn't belong? Who have been trying to wipe these countries out since pretty much the Persian Gulf War... This stuff goes back a long time, it started back then... anyone who doesn't believe so, you are listening to the american based media a little too much.. They never talk about all the innocent civilians and kids that the americans have killed over the years... they don't talk about americans blowing up schools or things like this, churches... etc... They only tell you one side of the story, I'm not saying that what these "terrorists" did is right, but in a small kind of way, I can almost understand their reasoning behind it. I mean, how would you feel, if you lived on that side of the world and for 25 30 years, you go to bed with bombs dropping on your neighbors.. You know, some days in Canada, we can't go to school because of a blizzard, over there they can't because the Americans or Whoever blew up their damn school. 

 

I'm not saying i agree with what ISIS is doing or what they are all about, I really don't but at the same time, put yourself in their shoes for a minute...

 

People make a big deal out of 911 and yeah it was awful but 911 has happened 100's of times in these places every year for 30 years pretty much.

 

And people think going to war with them or dropping bombs is the answer? when in reality, going to war and dropping bombs on them is actually what started all this 25 30 years ago?  Mind Boggling stuff really when you actually think about it. 

 

I've tried to understand for a long time why people would strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up and take out people with them.. I think i've finally got it, cuz you know what... For years it's because bombs have been dropped on them, they are going to die one way or the other so take some people out with them i guess is their logic... Think about it... 

 

WAR is not the answer or the solution, it's the problem. 

 

I would argue that whenever the US accidentally kills a civilian it's huge news.  Keep in mind the US's goal is NOT to kill civilians but in war, it happens.  The object of the enemy IS to target civilians. 

 

The answer to being attacks can never be to say okay, well, we wont retaliate.  The extreme Islamic radicals want Islam all over the world.  Its their goal to have a Holy war and to kill all non believers.  (Please correct me if I am wrong about that).  This is not a remark on Muslims, just the radicals.  So I think there will always be those radicals that want this.

 

US foreign policy certainly hasnt helped.  But I think its not so much the US being in the middle east.  A vile dictator like Saddam kept the radicals at bay.  Same goes with whatshisname in Syria.  Removing those people creates a vacuum where the radicals try to fill it on the basis of wanting Sharia law.  They recruit by preying upon people's devotion to their religion and warping that view.

 

No different than a Christian cult that might prey upon young Christians with a warped view of Christianity.  We've heard many stories of Al Queda and ISIS leaders and terrorists who didnt practice what they preached.  I'd suspect they dont really believe what they say, its just the tool they use to recruit and justify.

 

A strong Middle East would probably be the best thing for keeping these elements minimized but a strong middle east seems to mean one ruled by dictators. 

 

I've seen pictures and stories of Middle Easy in decades past where people seemed happy and prosperous and were not covered head to toe and were not subjugated.  How did that change?

 

Im not knowledgeable enough to give anything other than my cursory opinion.  But Goalie raises an interesting new issue...rather then debate racism and whatnot, lets discuss why it is this way and what can be done to stop it?

[kelownabomberfan]

I hear what Goalie's saying, but these perpetrators in Paris were almost all French Nationals, so they were living in France, not the Middle East, and so didn't have bombs dropping on them. They were motivated by something else.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the unifying thread through all of these attacks and discussions is the sickness that is fundamental Islam. Westerners have a hard time wrapping their head around why people strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up. We have such great lives, why would you want to kill yourself, and why would you want to take out a bunch of other people, just because they have a different religion? Do some research. It's no different than why people drink poisoned Kool-Aid and think that they are going to float out to a comet and travel to another galaxy. It's religious fervor.

There's a reason why illiteracy in the Middle East (outside of Israel) is around 50%. The imams want everyone to be illiterate. That way they will believe everything they are told.

Here's a good Vice episode on suicide bombers. Fast forward to the 11 minute mark (though the first 11 minutes are good too, about the Philippines):

Vice is extremely left-wing, so I hope it is acceptable to the PC Himmlers residing here...

[iso_55]

 

We need to have discussions like this so I hope this thread stays open. 

Whats kind of funny is, someone side tracked it based on a side issue that I mentioned rather than discussing the main topic.  The point was to cherry pick side topics to try and "win" an argument to make it seem they were correct about the main topic.

 

I dont think it's unreasonable for people to be concerned about inviting 25,000 refugees into Canada in a timeline some experts say is unreasonable when the enemy has promised to hide operatives among refugees and Canada has already appeared on their list of preferred targets for attack.  Some people dont like my use of the term "common sense" but I think it applied.

Feel free to disagree ofcourse.  But anyone resorting to calling poster's racist or akin to those that burned down a Mosque is playing to the lowest and weakest aspect of any argument. 

 

It is common sense. I agree 100%. 

[kelownabomberfan]

Here's a column from 2013 from another unacceptable source, Mark Steyn. When I posted this column on another website forum I visit I was totally pilloried and several people demanded that I be banned from the forum, for posting such politically incorrect and insulting rubbish. And yet it's never been more poignant:

Whose Islam?

National Review's Happy Warrior
October 21, 2013

 

The "war" part of the war on terror is pretty much over, and we're now fighting it culturally, rhetorically. Which is not something we do well. Take the British prime minister and his traditional nothing-to-do-with-Islam statement, issued in the wake of the Kenyan shopping-mall carnage:

 

These appalling terrorist attacks that take place where the perpetrators claim they do it in the name of a religion: They don't. They do it in the name of terror, violence and extremism and their warped view of the world. They don't represent Islam, or Muslims in Britain or anywhere else in the world.

 

Same with the Muslims who beheaded a British soldier, Drummer Rigby, on a London street in broad daylight. On that occasion, David Cameron assured us that the unfortunate incident was "a betrayal of Islam. . . . There is nothing in Islam that justifies this truly dreadful act."

 

How does he know? Mr. Cameron is not (yet) a practicing Muslim. A self-described "vaguely practicing" Anglican, he becomes rather less vague and unusually forceful and emphatic when the subject turns to Islam. At the Westgate mall in Nairobi, the terrorists separated non-Muslim hostages from Muslims and permitted the latter to leave if they could recite a Muslim prayer—a test I doubt Mr. Cameron could have passed, for all his claims to authority on what is and isn't Islamic. So the perpetrators seem to think it's something to do with Islam—and, indeed, something to do with Muslims in the United Kingdom, given that the terrorists included British subjects (as well as U.S. citizens).

 

It was a busy weekend for Nothing to Do with Islam. Among the other events that were nothing to do with Islam were the murder of over 85 Pakistani Christians at All Saints' Church in Peshawar and the beheading of Ricardo Dionio in the Philippines by BIFF, the aggressively acronymic breakaway faction (the Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters) from the more amusingly acronymic MILF (the Moro Islamic Liberation Front). Despite a body count higher than Kenya, the Pakistani slaughter received barely a mention in the Western media. You'd be hard put to find an Anglican church in England with a big enough congregation on a Sunday morning to kill 85 worshipers therein, but in Peshawar, a 99 percent Muslim city, the few remaining Christians are not of the "vaguely practicing" Cameron variety. Viewed from London, however, they've already lost: One day there will be no Christians in Peshawar and the city will be 100 percent Muslim. It may be "nothing to do with Islam," but it's just the way it is: We accept the confessional cleansing of Pakistan, as we do of Egypt, because it's part of "the Muslim world." Nairobi, on the other hand, is not, and a murderous assault on an upscale shopping mall patronized by Kenya's elite and wealthy secular expats gets far closer to the comfort zone wherein David Cameron "vaguely practices": In a "clash of civilizations" in which one side doesn't want to play, a shattered church has less symbolic resonance than a shattered frozen-yogurt eatery.

 

On this side of the Atlantic, meanwhile, the Canadian branch of the Islamic Society of North America lost its charitable status after it was revealed to be funding all that jihad stuff that's nothing to do with Islam. This presented a small problem for Justin Trudeau, leader of the Liberal party, son of Pierre, and on course to be the Queen's dimmest prime minister of her six-decade reign: Where David Cameron is a silky, slippery deceiver who surely knows better, young Justin seems genuinely to believe the mush he serves up. Asked to explain his recent photo-op at the now-discredited ISNA, he replied: "Part of my job is to speak with as many Canadians as possible and talk to people about the kinds of shared values we have."

 

I don't suppose M. Trudeau really means he "shares values" with terrorism supporters, but he does get to the heart of the problem: To put it at its mildest, there seem to be insufficient "shared values" between Western societies and a not-insignificant number of young Muslim men who are nominally and legally citizens thereof. One survivor of the Westgate mall said, "I don't understand why you would shoot a five-year-old child." But what's to understand? The child was shot because he was not Muslim. Five-year-olds died at All Saints' Church for the same reason—because, even in a town that's 99 percent Muslim, a non-Muslim kindergartner is a provocation. Crazy, huh? Yet it is not inconceivable that the man who executed the five-year-old at the Westgate mall was one of those "British subjects" or "U.S. citizens." That's to say, he's not some primitive from the fringes of the map but someone who has grown up in the same society as Justin Trudeau and decided that Justin's "shared values" are worthless.

 

To be charitable to Mr. Cameron, he is trying to point out that very few Muslims want to stare a five-year-old in the eye and pull the trigger. But, likewise, very few of them want to do anything serious—in their mosques and madrassahs—about the culture that incubates such men. The prime minister is betting that all the clever chaps like him can keep the lid on and hold things to what, at the height of the Northern Irish "Troubles," cynical British officials privately called "an acceptable level of violence." A combined weekend corpse count of 150 is, apparently, "acceptable"—or at any rate not sufficiently unacceptable to prompt any reconsideration of a British, Canadian, and European immigration policy that makes Islam the principal source of Western population growth.

 

But don't worry: As John McCain says of our Syrian "allies," "Allahu akbar" simply means "Thank God." Thank God for that.

[The Unknown Poster]

We need to have discussions like this so I hope this thread stays open.

Whats kind of funny is, someone side tracked it based on a side issue that I mentioned rather than discussing the main topic. The point was to cherry pick side topics to try and "win" an argument to make it seem they were correct about the main topic.

I dont think it's unreasonable for people to be concerned about inviting 25,000 refugees into Canada in a timeline some experts say is unreasonable when the enemy has promised to hide operatives among refugees and Canada has already appeared on their list of preferred targets for attack. Some people dont like my use of the term "common sense" but I think it applied.

Feel free to disagree ofcourse. But anyone resorting to calling poster's racist or akin to those that burned down a Mosque is playing to the lowest and weakest aspect of any argument.

It is common sense. I agree 100%.

Watch out ISO!! Lol

[kelownabomberfan]

Connect the dots to get to the root of terrorism

 

RAHEEL RAZA

 

First posted:

 

Sunday, November 15, 2015 03:16 PM EST

 

Once again terrorists have struck at the heart of Europe. My cousin who lives in Paris writes: “Paris, my City of Lights is in darkness — but this, too, shall pass.”

Will it pass?

 

Our reaction is deep sadness at the loss of innocent lives but also anger at the fact that this attack is not unexpected, knowing the track record of ISIS and their ilk.

Reaction across Europe is that this madness is now a reality, hitting close to home. For some leaders in the West, the discussion is whether ISIS should be called Daesh, ISIL or something else? Let’s not deflect the real issue.

 

For some Muslims on social media and those I have spoken to over the past two days, the victim card is already being played out. I met a young newly-elected Muslim MP who said: “I hate the word ‘terrorist’ because we don’t know who they [the perpetrators] are.” Seriously? Across mainstream media, self-appointed analysts are spouting their expertise to conclude that the culprit turned out to be none other than ISIS — surprise!

We fully agree that the perpetrator this time is ISIS. But the same type of cowardly terrorist attacks have taken place even before ISIS was in existence. Why can’t we connect the dots to the heart of where the violence is emanating from?

 

Former prime minister Stephen Harper was one of the first western leaders to point out that Islamism is the biggest threat facing Canada. U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron called radical ideology “the struggle of our generation.” (http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-britain-cameron-islam-20150720-story.html). French President François Hollande says this is a declaration of war.

We agree. However this declaration of war from radical Islamists happened at 9/11 when planes crashed into the twin towers in New York. What other well articulated argument do we need to understand the enormity of the threat? Since 9/11, the West has been waffling in the quicksand of political correctness and refuse to call a spade a spade. Until they do, attacks like those in Paris, New York, Mumbai, Boston and Ottawa will keep happening again and again until they engulf all of us.

 

Just connect the dots:

• The export of Wahabi ideology has been taking place successfully for more than three decades.

• Trillions of dollars have been used to support this program.

• The inability of democratic western nations to challenge Saudi Arabia and Iran on their human rights record.

• Non-integration of Muslims into countries where they migrate or seek refuge.

• The push for unreasonable accommodation that white liberal guilt offers these immigrants.

• No challenge to messages of hate being spouted from Mosques — especially against Christians, Jews and Hindus.

• The ability of notorious Muslim organizations who say they represent all Muslims to work with impunity with government bodies.

• Finally the refusal of western democracies to brand terrorist organizations as terrorists.

 

Defence Minister Harjit Singh Sajjan just said that Canadians should not fear ISIS. With due respect, Canadians while not being afraid, should be very concerned. The perpetrators are within us and unless law enforcement takes drastic action on the issues mentioned above, terrorists will strike again.

 

There is no need to pray for Paris unless we connect the dots, understand the players and their motives and take action accordingly.

 

— Raza is President of The Council for Muslims Facing Tomorrow and author of Their Jihad is not my Jihad and international activist for women’s rights

 

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/15/connect-the-dots-to-get-to-the-root-of-terrorism