Paris Attacks

[kelownabomberfan]

Anonymous already declared war on ISIS after the Hebdo attacks.  Good job on that war there Anonymous.  ISIS is quaking in their sandals and explosive vests.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

Okay. Vietnam sucked it up, China sucked it up, therefore the Middle East should suck it up too. I'm oversimplifying, but that is essentially what you're saying.

 

 

No, what I am saying is that you seem to be looking for someone else to blame for these attacks other than radical Islam.   I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that it was just "mistreatment" that lead these people in Paris to self-detonate, just like it wasn't mistreatment that is causing Boko Haram to wipe out whole villages in Nigeria or Al Quada to blow up Christian churches in Pakistan.  Mistreatment of the Middle East isn't the reason that Philippine muslims on Mindanao are kidnapping, torturing and head-hacking infidels.  Mistreatment of the Middle East isn't what is causing massive unrest in Myanmar.  Mistreatment of the Middle East didn't cause 400,000 Bengalis to be slaughtered in 1971.  Mistreatment of the Middle East didn't cause 1,000,000 Armenians to be slaughtered in Turkey in 1915.  There is a lot more to this than "our countries mistreated them so it's our fault that thousands of people are being killed every month in terrorist attacks".  It's radical Islam that is to blame.  Every other excuse isn't even in the same galaxy.  And make no mistake, in no way am I blaming all Muslims, or the religion itself.

[iso_55]

 

I actually feel like some of this knee jerk. I don't want people that need help and want to be a part of an inclusive sociery to be unduly punished but the more this continues it is something Trudeau will have to respond to with something that invokes confidence in Canadians

(CNN)More than half the nation's governors -- 26 states -- say they oppose letting Syrian refugees into their states, although the final say on this contentious immigration issue will fall to the federal government.

States protesting the admission of refugees range from Alabama and Georgia, to Texas and Arizona, to Michigan and Illinois, to Maine and New Hampshire. Among these 26 states, all but one have Republican governors.

 

Brad Wall asking the Shiny Pony to rethink his campaign promise regarding allowing the Syrian flood of unvetted refugees into Canada.   Will the Shiny Pony do that and look uncool to all of his selfie admirers at the G20 conference?

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/sask-premier-brad-wall-asks-ottawa-to-suspend-syrian-refugee-plan-1.3321159

 

Quebec as well. Theyaren't saying they don't want refugees from Syria. They're saying do the proper processing. Don't take shortcuts. Don't fastrack 25,000 Syrians. I think the honeymoon for Trudeau is going to wear off fast if he doesn't slow the process down. 

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

 They smashed the French forces in Vietnam and chased out the Americans too. It's easier to move on when the battle is over and you've won.

 

 

 

Right.  Because they actually had a battle to win with an achievable end game, the reunification of Vietnam.  Their goal was political, not religious.  The "battle" you describe that radical Islam is engaging in won't be won until the entire earth is one giant Caliphate.  So that's why the bombings will never stop.

[The Unknown Poster]

So here is a question a bit off-topic but someone related.  If these attacks happen one month earlier, does it impact the Canadian election and how so?

[iso_55]

So here is a question a bit off-topic but someone related.  If these attacks happen one month earlier, does it impact the Canadian election and how so?

I think it would have for sure... It would have forced Trudeau & Mulcair to really explain their plans for Syrian refugess as well as their foreign policy for that region. 

[kelownabomberfan]

So here is a question a bit off-topic but someone related.  If these attacks happen one month earlier, does it impact the Canadian election and how so?

 

The NDP and the rest of the vociferous anti-Harper crowd would have accused the Conservatives of master-minding the attacks to create a "wedge" issue.

[kelownabomberfan]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/even-syrian-refugees-agree-it-is-not-easy-to-identify-the-fakes

[The Unknown Poster]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/even-syrian-refugees-agree-it-is-not-easy-to-identify-the-fakes

I briefly caught a story where a media person (I think) went over-seas and bought fake credentials including a Syrian passport.  He was provided with a passport with his picture and the name of a Syrian who had died.  I cant recall where I saw it (too lazy to search right now).  Another "reasonable" cause for concern.

[Mark F]

some of the leaders of ISIS are former leaders of the Iraqi army under Sadaam Hussein.

 

When the Americans invaded Iraq, they laid off the entire Iraqi army, resulting in all of those soldiers having no job, no money

 

and nothing to do.

 

Some of the joined Al Quaeda/isis.... which had money coming from high ups in Saudi Arabia, and other Gulf Oil states.

 

Similarly, two deputies to the Islamic State’s self-proclaimed caliph, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, are former Baathists: Abu Muslim al Afari al Turkmani is believed to have been a senior special forces officer and a member of military intelligence in Hussein’s army. Today, as Baghdadi’s number two, he supervises ISIS operations in Iraq. The second deputy, Abu Ali al Anbari oversees operations in Syria. Both men are also thought to serve on the Islamic State’s main governing body, known as the Shura Council.

 

 

Even the appointment of al Baghdadi to lead the Islamic State of Iraq in 2010 is reported by an ISIS defector to have been engineered by a former Baathist: Haji Bakr, an ex-colonel from the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard.

 

 

 

If you wanted to create chaos and conditions leading to the rise of ISIS, you would be hard pressed to come up with a better plan, than what the Americans and British pulled off in Iraq.

 

The invasion of Iraq is probably the stupidest, most disasterous, pointless. and most evil act since the Invasion of Vietnam .
 

 

189,000: Direct war deaths, which doesn't include the hundreds of thousands more that died due to war-related hardships.

4,488: U.S. service personnel killed directly.

32,223: Troops injured (not including PTSD).

134,000: Civilians killed directly.

655,000: Persons who have died in Iraq since the invasion that would not have died if the invasion had not occurred.

150: Reporters killed.

2.8 million: Persons who remain either internally displaced or have fled the country.

$1.7 trillion: Amount in war expenses spent by the U.S. Treasury Department as through Fiscal Year 2013.

 

[Mark F]

BUSH: One of the major theaters against al Qaeda turns out to have been Iraq. This is where al Qaeda said they were going to take their stand. This is where al Qaeda was hoping to take–

 

RADDATZ: But not until after the U.S. invaded.

 

BUSH: Yeah, that’s right. So what?

[kelownabomberfan]

No question, the Iraq war launched by Bush was so incredibly stupid and created a vacuum in Iraq that is to blame for a lot of the unrest currently in that region, and the formation of ISIS.  The Arab Spring probably wouldn't have happened either, and Gaddafi and Hussein would still have iron grips on the crazies in those regions.  Would that be better? 

[The Unknown Poster]

Isnt that really the big question?  Because if we have dictators with iron grips on their territory keeping the crazies at bay, but committing human rights atrocities against its own people not to mention thumbing their noses at the civilized world, trying to create WMD and plotting assassinations, would there not always be the eventual call to over-throw them/kill them?

 

Living with vile dictators in place because they keep the real crazy people in check is a tough compromise to make.

[iso_55]

No question, the Iraq war launched by Bush was so incredibly stupid and created a vacuum in Iraq that is to blame for a lot of the unrest currently in that region, and the formation of ISIS.  The Arab Spring probably wouldn't have happened either, and Gaddafi and Hussein would still have iron grips on the crazies in those regions.  Would that be better? 

Probably would have been. Dubya invaded Iraq to finish the job his father couldn't do. (Could you imagine the conversation in that family over Sunday dinners???) Well, it sure got Hussein out of power but look at the ramifications for the Middle East as well as the rest of the world. Bush just walks away clean. Nothing stuck to him.

[Mark F]

No question, the Iraq war launched by Bush was so incredibly stupid and created a vacuum in Iraq that is to blame for a lot of the unrest currently in that region, and the formation of ISIS.  The Arab Spring probably wouldn't have happened either, and Gaddafi and Hussein would still have iron grips on the crazies in those regions.  Would that be better? 

 

Arab spring is fizzled into vapour, the guy that won the first free election in the history of Egypt is now in jail, they have a military dictatorship. They lock up journalists, shoot people that protest at the tahriri square, and pardonned the previous dicatator.

 

Most Iraqis  ( polls)  would prefer to live under Sadaam. There are literally millions of Iraqis that have left, the country is ethnically cleansed, people that formerly got along, now live in fear and hate, there is no power, no drinking water, no medicine, on and on.

 

I'd say they were much better off before.

 

Same thing for Libya which had free health care, and much more, and is now a failed state ruled by regional warlords, and also the origin of a lot of the people fighting on the side of isis, and boko haram.

 

Arab Spring was very short lived, and is now over.

[kelownabomberfan]

I don't see how any democracy can function in the Middle East, other than Israel.  If you keep half your population enslaved through not providing any sort of public education, meaning that they are doomed to menial labour for their entire lives, how do you teach them that their vote has value, or which candidate is even worth voting for?  A strong man with a strong secret police has to be in place, or radical Islam will over take and destroy the entire country.  Look at how fast the military acted in Egypt to over-throw the "democratically elected" Muslim Brotherhood government.  The reason they acted fast was that the MB's started shipping arms and rockets into Gaza almost the same day they were elected, and the Egyptian military does NOT want another war with Israel. 

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

Arab spring is fizzled into vapour, the guy that won the first free election in the history of Egypt is now in jail, they have a military dictatorship. They lock up journalists, shoot people that protest at the tahriri square, and pardonned the previous dicatator.

 

 

There's a good reason that the winner of that "free" (cough cough) election is in jail.  He and the MB's were trying to start a war with Israel.  The Muslim Brotherhood is not a party you want running your country.

[kelownabomberfan]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/german-stadium-evacuated-after-concrete-evidence-of-explosive-plot-1.2662737

 

Soccer game cancelled today in Germany on short notice due to explosive device plot.  Merkel was supposed to be at the game.

[kelownabomberfan]

So here is a question a bit off-topic but someone related.  If these attacks happen one month earlier, does it impact the Canadian election and how so?

 

To answer your question, I think that this definitely would have affected the election.  Harper would have won a majority, no question.

 

I also have to wonder if these attacks are going to cause the cancelation of Justin's climate change party in Paris next week?

[The Unknown Poster]

 

So here is a question a bit off-topic but someone related.  If these attacks happen one month earlier, does it impact the Canadian election and how so?

 

To answer your question, I think that this definitely would have affected the election.  Harper would have won a majority, no question.

 

I also have to wonder if these attacks are going to cause the cancelation of Justin's climate change party in Paris next week?

 

I dont want to insult the climate change people because I believe being kind to the earth is important but if Trudeau appears more concerned with climate and playing world leader rock star than the issue of security, refugees and the role of the nation in the Middle East, he's going to begin shedding support.

 

I saw some blowback on line after the Paris attacks.  I understand the G20 is important but the photos of him "working" seemed a bit tone deaf. 

 

What a leader does is more important than what he is perceived as doing but what he is perceived as doing is an important aspect of leadership.  Bush was embraced as a great leader in the aftermath of 9/11.  He spoke strongly and resolutely.  Dont want to debate Bush, just saying.  We have major concerns and our PM is not here.  When he does get here, there will be an expectation of him truly showing up as the leader.  And I hope he rises to the occasion.

[kelownabomberfan]

The EU has opened the door to Britain sending troops or other specialists to France after an emergency mechanism was triggered for the first time in the bloc's history.

France activated Article 42, a distress call that compels other EU states to send military and other support. It is akin to Article 5, the Nato mutual defence pact.

States have already pledged support, which could be military or civil. France will specify the support it needs to each state in the coming days.

[kelownabomberfan]

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau delivered a blunt message during a brief chat with Russian President Vladimir Putin: back off Ukraine.

Trudeau said the two leaders had a brief conversation on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Antalya, Turkey.

 

"I pointed out that although Canada has shifted its approach on a broad range of multilateral and international issues, we remain committed to the fact that Russia's interference in Ukraine must cease; that we stand with the Ukrainian people and expect the president to engage fully in the Minsk peace process," he said.

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-russia-trudeau-putin-ukraine-1.3321069

Looks like JT had his face to face with Putin.  We'll see if it makes a difference.

[kelownabomberfan]

More than 1,200 Europeans who joined Islamic extremists in Syria and Iraq have returned home in the past two years, an Associated Press count shows. Many have been jailed but others — absorbed into the underbelly of some of the continent's biggest cities — have thrived with impunity.

 

All five Frenchmen linked to Friday's attacks in Paris — four strapped with suicide vests and the fifth on the run — are among them, according to officials linked to the investigation, redoubling fears that the returnees form a pool of potential terror attackers. Many remain off the radar, and France's Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve acknowledged Tuesday that "the majority of those who were involved in this attack were unknown to our services."

 

The Belgian believed to have masterminded the Paris attacks bragged about his ability to return home from Syria, saying an ID check by police raised no flags. Two of the Frenchman responsible for the rock concert bloodbath had apparently done the same back and forth unnoticed, despite having files linking them to terrorism and Islamic radicalism.

France has the uncomfortable distinction of being Europe's leading exporter of jihadis — nearly 1,600 out of a continental total of over 5,000, according to government figures. And despite the government's promises after the Charlie Hebdo attacks in January to block and prevent citizens from leaving for the war zone, the pace of departures has remained essentially unchanged.

 

An Associated Press analysis of government figures puts it at about 13 a month in the first 10 months of the year compared to an average of 12 a month in 2014.

Neighbouring Belgium has sent more young men and women per capita than anywhere in the West. And the two groups of foreign fighters are bound together by a common tongue and nearly as often a common background, often living in the same compounds and entering the same combat units.

 

Both countries have paid the price in blood: last week's attacks in central Paris left at least 129 people dead; the co-ordinated assaults in January on the Charlie Hebdo newspaper and a kosher supermarket killed 17; the attack against a Jewish museum in Brussels that killed four last year. All the attacks were carried out by Frenchmen with close links to extremists abroad and all too often Brussels, and neighbouring Molenbeek, on their itinerary.

 

"With the conflicts in Syria and Iraq in particular, there has been a radicalization that we have never seen before," said Molenbeek Mayor Francoise Schepmans in her office Monday. And the government knows the neighbourhood has long had trouble to contain it, as too many terror cases show.

 

"I see there is nearly always a Molenbeek link. There is a gigantic problem," said Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel.

 

The French government's most recent figures put the number of returnees to that country at 250, but the number is clearly far higher. With the attacks on Paris and the co-ordinated assaults in January, French citizens have become both the leading killers among European extremists and its primary victims.

 

French officials estimate about 520 citizens are currently with extremists in Iraq and Syria, a number that has climbed steadily despite government promises to make blocking departures a priority. The numbers of departures exploded by 2014 — young people spurred in part by the chemical weapons attack that killed as many as 1,400 Syrians in August 2013 who said they wanted to help Syrian civilians and fight President Bashar Assad. The vast majority ended up with the Islamic State group.

 

Look beyond France, and there is a sense of the scale of the problem, and of the rising alarm of European intelligence officials. And because of Europe's open borders, returns appear to be nearly as fluid as departures.

"Syria has become the biggest factory of terrorists that the world has ever seen," French President Francois Hollande said Monday.

 

According to an AP count, Britain has an estimated 350 returnees. Germany has documented about 250 returnees while Belgium puts its figure at about 130. Sweden has a total of 115 as the only other European Union nation with triple digits.

 

Most ex-jihadis who return to France are arrested and charged with terrorism. With justice system moving at a snail's pace, people who left in 2013 and returned quickly are only just going on trial next month, according to Xavier Nogueras, a lawyer who represents more than two dozen of them. He spoke with the AP in an interview before Friday's attacks.

"The justice system is trying to make the effort to figure out who is dangerous and who is not, but because they don't have the manpower, they put them all in prison, and that can make them dangerous," he said. "There are so many of these people who now wait in prison, without knowing their fate They are going to get more frustrated, ask 'why are you leaving me in prison to rot?'"

 

He estimates that two of his 25 cases are truly dangerous, and he said he has no interest in defending committed terrorists: "There's going to come a time when I'm going to have to stop this."

In Britain, 114 are awaiting trial while 21 have been convicted.

 

Petter Nesser, a senior researcher at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment, said those who commit terror attacks in Europe are both former foreign fighters and others who are simply inspired by the radical rhetoric. But the deadliest attackers, he said, have a background in jihadi warfare.

 

Nesser said that there are many ways of tackling returnees, and one way "is to combine prosecution and preventive moves."

"Right now, we do not know what actions really help," he said.

 

 

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-152019-5-.htm#152019

[The Unknown Poster]

What do you think Putin's reaction was?

[kelownabomberfan]

What do you think Putin's reaction was?

 

I think you know what my opinion is on that...though he probably was thinking "what is Derek Zoolander doing talking to me about the Ukraine right now?  Doesn't he watch the news?"