Around The League Off Season Discussion

[iso_55]

2 hours ago, Ripper said:

I suspect JSJ is way past the point of ever being a Rider. I'm not here to defend anyone because TBH I'm just as surprised at all this as anyone. Frankly not too happy to see us lose a pick like this either. Wondering if the Riders are trying to push it over the top to get a rookie salary cap implemented in the league. I'm not buying the market correction crap either. But seriously guys, what right does a guy who has never played a game have to ask for 400k? stupidity all around on this one. St John in a way made Jones look bad by walking away from whatever deal they had discussed. Guys like Jones don't get made a fool of. No way Jones forgives and forgets. Highly doubt St John plays for riders. And as much as you guys like to joke, not sure how St John doesn't look bad in this too and it will effect his dealings with other teams. One thing is for sure, a very odd situation

JSJ has every right to ask for whatever he wants after the Riders disrespected him.

[Fatty Liver]

Clear evidence Jones is wearing too many hats to perform proper due diligence and Murphy just might not be suitable to be the next Bomber GM in waiting.  Both exhibit "smartest guy in the room syndrome".

Edited June 3, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Jpan85]

Just happy head shakers like this do not envolve the Bombers anymore?

[ediger]

1 hour ago, Zontar said:

But..but.. everybody wants to play in SSK. It's Canada's team , the heart of the league, best fans in the universe - you can live the rest of your life there.

Must be one big misunderstanding.

There's great jobs to be had for former players at that John Deere dealership. Or that other John Deere dealership.

[do or die]

Given the M.O. of Hardaway....and the temperament of Jones - this could drag on for quite a while.

 

 

[Zontar]

25 minutes ago, ediger said:

There's great jobs to be had for former players at that John Deere dealership. Or that other John Deere dealership.

If those Rider fans just showed a bit of skepticism and waited for things to evolve with the new Jones/Murphy regime instead of banging both of them on the first date they wouldnt look so damn silly the past few months

[Atomic]

I'm sure they'll come to an agreement soon

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I went to Starbucks today for a latte. I told the barista that I'd pay only $2.50 for it, citing market corrections. In related news, my latte is refusing to report.

? ? For the funny in your post.

For using the word "barista" & ordering a Latte.

[Jimmy Pop]

To me the Riders look way worse than the player/agent. 

Sask picked the kid. Either failed to gauge his interest well, underestimated the slimyness of Hardaway or are just straight up stubborn clowns.

No one's buying the market correction, for the good of the league bullcrap. I think it's better for the league to continue to up player's pay. Encourage guys to want to be in the league. He's a #1 overall for christ's sake, he's supposed to collect the league minimum? Is that what fans want from their team? I mean I'm thrifty too, Winnipegger and all, but this seems excessive. And to those who say prove it - he did, enough anyway, that's why they drafted him.

JsJ is no winner, reputation takes a bit of a hit with some. But the oh so typical chest thumping from the Rider fanbase and the circle jerk their media pulled prove real losers wear green.

 

[LeBird]

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

I was curious about this, too....if he's not ready to step in and play right off the hop, then I don't know if it's worth it...

It would have to be heavy on the per game bonus. Then no matter what it's his call.

[Floyd]

1st round pick provided that Walters can talk to Hardaway prior to the trade - need a deal in place - 3 years sounds good to me

 

[IC Khari]

142 pages on the first thread at riderfans about drafting JSJ, and 16 on the trade request already. I thought the point of a new regime was to usher in trust? At least it took a couple of years for us to hate Mack ...  

[iso_55]

4 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Clear evidence Jones is wearing too many hats to perform proper due diligence and Murphy just might not be suitable to be the next Bomber GM in waiting.  Both exhibit "smartest guy in room syndrome".

My respect for Murphy? Don't know what to say... I thought he was a lot smarter than what he's shown in Saskatchewan so far. People who follow the CFL closely say his selections in the CFL Draft this season wasn't very good, the Mo price deal, letting Dressler AND Smith walk. Now JSJ? More bad than good.

[LeBird]

16 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

My respect for Murphy? Don't know what to say... I thought he was a lot smarter than what he's shown in Saskatchewan so far. People who follow the CFL closely say his selections in the CFL Draft this season wasn't very good, the Mo price deal, letting Dressler AND Smith walk. Now JSJ? More bad than good.

I think things are looking pretty good down there. I kind of like what I'm seeing there right now. I wonder how much influence Jones has on the way Murphy acts.

[IC Khari]

Would love to see Jones and his ego start off 0 - 7 like last year. Despite what Riderfans are saying in his defence, this mess really looks good on him ...

[iso_55]

Edit.

Edited June 3, 2016 by iso_55

[Floyd]

Curse of Taman.

[Taynted_Fayth]

Realistically I can see both sides of the argument. $400k for 3 years sounds like a lot, but im assuming jsj & hardaway think he will be an immediate starter, or at least will be sooner than later, and $133k/year for a starting ni tackle, it is a steal of a price. And if that was the set price for three years - thats beneficial to the riders.  if you look at it based on his passport and position, imo its not that significant of a bump from 80k as the cap hits would be only 133k a year. Of course the precedent contracts for #1s has been what, 80k plus 20k incentive? I think the biggest issue when comparing mateas and chungh was the signing bonus and guaranteed monies (?) I'm sure with the contractual shape taman left the riders in + the recent burns while under their watch (price) jones and murphy are probably like **** that, the moment those words are mentioned now.

I only followed some of the jsj story briefly, such as the recent trade me statement, but im curious, are hardaway/jsj really approaching this like hes a recently drafted, 1st yr rookie? Or is this a case of, eventually im gonna command like 180k+-$200k+ for all that I am, 133k now per year for a ni ol is peanuts take it while you can?

Im a little surprised they didnt offer minimum + extra off field perks. I cant imagine the riders are in cap hell after restructuring durant, mass exodus' ing 1/3 of their roster in 1 day, letting high contracts walk (dressler/chick). So I dunno why they're cheapin out unless they are making a statement after the retirements, non negoiations with some... gotta take control of the situation as a gm at some point and stop letting players try to dictate the game

[bearpants]

9 hours ago, IC Khari said:

142 pages on the first thread at riderfans about drafting JSJ, and 16 on the trade request already. I thought the point of a new regime was to usher in trust? At least it took a couple of years for us to hate Mack ...  

I've been browsing through these threads the last couple of days out of curiosity... There's becoming a distinct difference between the level-headed ones saying "darn, we seem to have screwed the pooch here. Let's at least try to get a decent return for him"... and the ones saying "yeah, go get em Jones! you guys are the best, no one pushes the Riders around, he can sit an rot for all I care!"... Imagine the panic around here is we had a first overall (or even first rounder) refuse to sign...

The one thing the rah-rah rider fans fail to recognize is... if they offered 80k + bonus and incentives (give or take)... he'd be in camp right now, there would literally be no issue... and those same fans would be praising Jones and Co for their work in signing him...

[mbrg]

9 hours ago, Floyd said:

1st round pick provided that Walters can talk to Hardaway prior to the trade - need a deal in place - 3 years sounds good to me

 

If Jones is blasting a shotgun thru the bottom of his raft, why would we be throwing him a life preserver?

The only way this is a deal that makes sense for the Bombers is if they had St. John rated very highly - and not just compared to the rest of the crop in this most recent draft - and strongly feel he's a blue chipper.  There is no evidence to indicate that is the case.  There wasn't even a consensus number 1.

[mbrg]

15 hours ago, Ripper said:

I interested in hearing the outside thoughts. Does St John look bad in this? How welcome is he in dressing rooms in other cities? Do vets on other teams applaud this? or think shut up rookie and prove yourself. 

1)  If he hasn't been beaking off in the news every chance he gets, not too bad.  The agent wears most of that but he can still always fall back on "doing his job".  It's mostly the Riders who look silly in this - if you actually want to get this kid under contract, why are you essentially insulting him?  So his agent made a steep demand.  Now you negotiate.  It is your job to take the high ground in this, not start throwing grenades.

2)  In the midst of training camp, with twoadays and learning new playbooks and fighting to keep your career going, I doubt it's really been noticed.  Something to talk about in the buffet line.

3)  Vets won't applaud it in that sense.  They'll have enough understanding of the big picture to know this doesn't change anything for them.  Most of them will understand the economics of football and not begrudge St. John trying to get what he can get.

4)  When (IF) he gets into a training camp, then it's definitely going to be shut up rookie and prove yourself.  That's true for all camps and rookies.  Vets are always aware that the rookies are there to try and make them unemployed.  Vets don't ever like rookies during training camp.

[IC Khari]

I don't see us getting involved in that mess, which is a good thing. I say let Jones and company rot on this ...

[mbrg]

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

If we do trade for him I hope the offer attempts to reset the market. 

Offer a market correcting 8th round pick and a ten pack of stale coconut timbits for the 1st overall.

[LeBird]

17 hours ago, Ripper said:

I suspect JSJ is way past the point of ever being a Rider. I'm not here to defend anyone because TBH I'm just as surprised at all this as anyone. Frankly not too happy to see us lose a pick like this either. Wondering if the Riders are trying to push it over the top to get a rookie salary cap implemented in the league. I'm not buying the market correction crap either. But seriously guys, what right does a guy who has never played a game have to ask for 400k? stupidity all around on this one. St John in a way made Jones look bad by walking away from whatever deal they had discussed. Guys like Jones don't get made a fool of. No way Jones forgives and forgets. Highly doubt St John plays for riders. And as much as you guys like to joke, not sure how St John doesn't look bad in this too and it will effect his dealings with other teams. One thing is for sure, a very odd situation

Jones should remember you can always deal with the devil and beat him if you let him believe he won. You hit the nail on the head when you said:"The riders are trying to push it over the top to get a rookie salary cap implemented". If Jones believed he was so powerful he could govern the league this fiasco should bring him back to reality but i am sure it won't. With an ego the size of Texas you have to feel sorry for the players  should they falter at the start. Dear God, Thank you for today and thank you for putting Mike  here and Jones  there. Amen.

[Ripper]

15 hours ago, iso_55 said:

JSJ has every right to ask for whatever he wants after the Riders disrespected him.

I get that you guys enjoy taking shots at the Riders and all that. Murphy said the 2 offers they made to St John were the highest offers made to a draft pick this year, so we can drop the lowball boo hoo crap can't we?  Obviously the kid wants either more money or not to play in Saskatchewan. Disrespected??  Likely they wanted a lot so we offered nothing. Obviously higher offers have been tabled since then. Hardaway definitely wants future draftee's to call him to get them bigger money. That is the agenda here. I'm sure Hardaway doesn't even care if the kid ever plays, he is trying to prove a point.