Around The League Off Season Discussion

[Noeller]

Amen to that...

[Taynted_Fayth]

At best theyd need to match lulay, but im thinking they bump him up to back up $ with the window to renegotiate a contract in year 3 (next year) I dont see him going from minimum wage to starter $ this year even if he threatens not to report. 

[Jacquie]

Wally really took advantage of a player desperate to get a chance. League minimum is pretty low for any QB. From what I have read I think you'd be hard pressed to find any QB in the League who makes/made under $100,000 on their first contract.

[TBURGESS]

9 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Read the article. Jennings did not have an agent at the time he signed the contract, he did the "negotiating" himself.

You're right. His dumb agent was himself.

[sweep the leg]

22 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

 Players love to say, 'I had a great year. Tear my contract up because I deserve more', but I've never heard them say, 'I had an off year. I should take a pay cut even tho my contract says I don't have to'.

No, but the GMs say take a paycut or I'll cut you when they have a bad season. Until CFL players have guaranteed contracts, I have no problem with them holding out for more money. Especially considering the low amounts the get paid on 1st year deals.

[Mike]

FWIW Jennings doesn't even make close to what most 3rd string QBs make, never mind starters. He's incredibly underpaid.

[Bigblue204]

26 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

No, but the GMs say take a paycut or I'll cut you when they have a bad season. Until CFL players have guaranteed contracts, I have no problem with them holding out for more money. Especially considering the low amounts the get paid on 1st year deals.

It's also not unheard of for star players to renegotiate to help the rest of the team out.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

FWIW Jennings doesn't even make close to what most 3rd string QBs make, never mind starters. He's incredibly underpaid.

[Taynted_Fayth]

This quote from buono (both from the vancouver sun) makes me think holding his breath and not showing up to camp isnt going to work for Jennings

Quote

“It’s not something I’m overly concerned about,” Buono said. “The good thing is Jonathon has two years of obligation left to the B.C. Lions. When you look at the history of the Lions, we’ve always taken care of people who have contributed and needed their contracts put in line with their contributions. We’ve done it for other people. But I don’t believe the team or the player should be in a rush. In fairness to both parties, let things evolve.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/football/lions/lions+jennings+wants+more+play/11761258/story.html#ixzz41yLOLGdn

Quote

“I’m expecting Jon to start (training camp) as No. 1 and finish as No. 1,” Buono said. “But I want Travis Lulay to come in and compete. I don’t want to limit or hinder either one. We want to have the best football team possible. If the pecking order maintains itself, great. If it’s gotta change, that’s my job.

“We have a pecking order, for every position, (but) it’s not a given. If you don’t compete and you don’t produce, somebody else is going to be there.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/lions+ready+reward+prime+pivot+jennings+just/11758052/story.html#ixzz41yLpoDgV

 

If it comes down to it, and Jennings doesnt report,  if your BC, do you cut your losses and save the 55k & 57k next 2 years or do you sit on his contract for the next 2 years in spite?

[WBBFanWest]

Neither because Wally's going to give him more money.  He's just not going to be seen doing it on the player and agent's time.  He'll let Jennings stew a bit and make him fight a little for the raise that they both know he's going to get.

Edited March 4, 2016 by WBBFanWest

[TrueBlue]

I'm not sold on Jennings enough just yet to go back to the bargaining table.  He had a killer start and then regressed once defenses could figure him out.  That can't continue, and I would need to see proof of this before new numbers were discussed.  I would have no problem re-upping him after a third of the season or so has passed and he's continued to progress.

Having said that, If Jennings truly is going to be their #1 guy, they'll get him restructured.  They can't risk him walking away on bad terms after his contract expires.

[comedygeek]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

I'm old school. When you sign a contract you've completed the deal. Wally should (probably will) offer him more money for extra years on the contract because that keeps everyone happy, but he doesn't have to.

If Jennings holds out, he can't play anywhere and won't make any money until the contract is over, unless he is traded and there's nothing in it for BC to trade him. 55K is a lot better than zero now and maybe starters pay in 2 years time. Players love to say, 'I had a great year. Tear my contract up because I deserve more', but I've never heard them say, 'I had an off year. I should take a pay cut even tho my contract says I don't have to'.

Yeah, as has been said above, the player may not say, "I should take a pay cut," but the teams often do -- "take a pay cut or we'll release you".

As long as teams can break contracts with no repercussions, then in certain obvious situations (this being one of them -- a projected CFL starter earning far lower than any rostered QB in the CFL) it seems perfectly reasonable.

[johnzo]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue said:

He had a killer start and then regressed once defenses could figure him out.  

The numbers don't back this up. He finished pretty much as he started.

4 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

I'm old school. When you sign a contract you've completed the deal.

Pro football contracts are so ridiculously one-sided that I almost always side with the player in contract disputes.

[Dr. Blue]

4 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

This quote from buono (both from the vancouver sun) makes me think holding his breath and not showing up to camp isnt going to work for Jennings

 

If it comes down to it, and Jennings doesnt report,  if your BC, do you cut your losses and save the 55k & 57k next 2 years or do you sit on his contract for the next 2 years in spite?

If he doesn't report, the Lions likely suspend him and don't have to worry about that.

If he's going to be your number one QB, do you really want him to miss training camp? It would be really beneficial for both parties for him to be in camp.

I also wonder if he was even given a two year contract offer... Didn't the whole discussion about GMs being required to offer rookies a two year option start with Wally and Cam Wake?

[iso_55]

Memo to new players. Find yourself a good agent & don't negotiate a contract on your own. The contractual thing to do is to live by the terms of the deal. The right & perhaps the moral thing to do is for Wally to renegotiate a new contract with Jennings in good faith.

[TrueBlue]

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

The numbers don't back this up. He finished pretty much as he started.

I'm curious to revisit the numbers to be perfectly honest.  I'm basing this purely on my observations as it stands.

Either way, I still wouldn't be ready to talk dollars and cents with him yet.  

[WBBFanWest]

If, as has been suggested, he makes less that the average 3rd stringer, you need to bump him up fairly quickly.  He's already proved that he's more valuable that "the average 3rd stringer" so I really don't see what would be gained in telling him that he has to prove during TC that he's worth it.  The only thing that waiting will accomplish will be to ensure that there's absolutely 0 good will moving forward.  Wally's smarter than that.

[DR. CFL]

In this day and age when there is no expectation that QBs will play 18 games the best solution is to provide your 2nd and 3 rd string QB an incentive laden contract. A relatively low base, a bonus if you started,a bonus for TDs, cumulative starts, cumulative yardage and therefore the ability to make decent many if in fact you played and were productive. Earn your money don't be xpected to be handed a bag of cash.

[Jacquie]

6 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Memo to new players. Find yourself a good agent & don't negotiate a contract on your own. The contractual thing to do is to live by the terms of the deal. The right & perhaps the moral thing to do is for Wally to renegotiate a new contract with Jennings in good faith.

There is the possibility that he couldn't get an agent to represent him. Wasn't he the guy who emailed a bunch of CFL teams begging for a chance?

[Bigblue204]

18 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

This quote from buono (both from the vancouver sun) makes me think holding his breath and not showing up to camp isnt going to work for Jennings

 

If it comes down to it, and Jennings doesnt report,  if your BC, do you cut your losses and save the 55k & 57k next 2 years or do you sit on his contract for the next 2 years in spite?

meh, that's just Buono saving face. It'd likely be the worst GM move on a qb since the ricky ray trade. (not that bad obvisouly, but still horrendous). Jennings is going to get paid.

Want to talk about bad PR for player recruitment....let this flow into the season. Buono isn't that stupid. (please be that stupid buono) 

[Taynted_Fayth]

I dunno, i just cant see Jennings wanting anything less then what Lulay is making if he's going to be the #1.  its a legitimate argument to say the back up (Lulay) shouldnt make more then the starter (Jennings).  BC isn't obligated to pay him anything beyond the contract, but likely will offer him something (1 year 120k+ incentives with a reneg next year?) wally also gets another year to evaluate Jennings worth.

then again,  maybe Buono thinks Lulay's knee is good to go,  the difference in TL and JJ isnt mind blowing;

Lulay: 10 games. 167/267 62.8% 1953yrds 12 tds 10ints

Jennings: 8 games 142/215 66%  2004 yards  15 tds to 10 ints

 

granted Jennings is 9 years younger, but if his demand is starter money, like a 200K+ raise I dunno if wally bites, not when he's sitting in the position of strength with a valid signed contract at much less

[Bigblue204]

56 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

granted Jennings is 9 years younger, but if his demand is starter money, like a 200K+ raise I dunno if wally bites, not when he's sitting in the position of strength with a valid signed contract at much less

This is where I'm not so certain who is in control. It's not Lulays knee that's the problem. It's his shoulder. He hasn't looked the same since he first hurt it. And he's one hit away from it being damaged again. Do want to go into the season with him as the starter, and no Jennings to back him up even? Lulay didn't look like he could get the team to the playoffs last year. Jennings looked like the future, sure the jury is still out. But that's not the case with Lulay.

Jennings and his new agent must see this as well. So does Buono have the power in owning a contract that is cheap, and a proven, yet injury prone Vet already under Contract. Or is Jennings in control by being (as it stands now anyway) the best chance for the team to win. Is Buono on thin ice right now? Can he survive a loosing season, when he has a potential star QB not playing becuase he (bouno) is knowingly being cheap? I don't know. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Bigblue204

[TrueBlue]

14 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

If, as has been suggested, he makes less that the average 3rd stringer, you need to bump him up fairly quickly.  He's already proved that he's more valuable that "the average 3rd stringer" so I really don't see what would be gained in telling him that he has to prove during TC that he's worth it.  The only thing that waiting will accomplish will be to ensure that there's absolutely 0 good will moving forward.  Wally's smarter than that.

If there was an absolute stance by management to ensure Jennings played out the entire contract that he initially signed, then you could argue lost goodwill, but he signed a 3-year contract and has played 1/3 of it. He was fortunate enough to get in some substantial playing time in his first year and thus now has that standard to live up to.  

What would be gained in evaluation over TC and the first handful of games is the ability to gauge where his long term opportunity truly lies with the team.  Patience could pay off for Jennings anyways if the Lions offer him a new contract in the middle of this season.  He'd stand to get a better deal at that point than what he could potentially get right now. 

[TrueBlue]

1 hour ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I dunno, i just cant see Jennings wanting anything less then what Lulay is making if he's going to be the #1.  its a legitimate argument to say the back up (Lulay) shouldnt make more then the starter (Jennings).  BC isn't obligated to pay him anything beyond the contract, but likely will offer him something (1 year 120k+ incentives with a reneg next year?) wally also gets another year to evaluate Jennings worth.

then again,  maybe Buono thinks Lulay's knee is good to go,  the difference in TL and JJ isnt mind blowing;

Lulay: 10 games. 167/267 62.8% 1953yrds 12 tds 10ints

Jennings: 8 games 142/215 66%  2004 yards  15 tds to 10 ints

 

granted Jennings is 9 years younger, but if his demand is starter money, like a 200K+ raise I dunno if wally bites, not when he's sitting in the position of strength with a valid signed contract at much less

I can't see there being any way Jennings gets bumped up to anywhere near that before the start of the season.  

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CczWj-9W4AALAya.jpg:large

Riders stadium still a year away or if you're the WBB, just about ready for this season.

Edited March 5, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg