Around The League Off Season Discussion

[TBURGESS]

Last time we hired a HC with good experience (IE Winning) was Richie back in '99 worked out pretty well IIRC.

I can't remember the last time we hired an experienced GM, but Walters, Mack, Bauer and Reinbold certainly weren't so it's been a long time.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, iso_55 said:

The experience level of the people they hire on this team now & in the recent past can't be ignored. To me, they just didn't want to spend the cash when they had a cheaper alternative. In the case of Joe Mack, my understanding from everything I heard is that Paul Robson & Joe Pop were on the BOD's at that time. They were buddy-buddy with Mack from their days with the team going back to the mid 80's. Those 2 pushed hard to hire Mack over Barker.

I agree this was the reason we hired Joe Mack.  I agree the BOD has made some horrible choices from GM and even CEO (hello Mr Buchko).  I just don't believe it is because they were being purposefully cheap.  ie. that they could afford someone, they wanted to come here but we chose someone else because they were the cheaper option.  

In hindsight I would have loved Barker over Mack.  But I don't believe we chose Mack because he was cheaper.  We chose him because, as you say, there were people on the BOD who pushed to get him.

I don't believe we didn't bid on someone because we could afford to but decided to go with a cheaper option just because.  Makes no sense for an entity who doesn't need to turn a profit.  If we could afford someone AND wanted them AND they wanted to come here, it makes zero sense to undercut and go with someone cheaper.

 

[iso_55]

The Bombers may be owned publicly but they still have to pay their bills like every other company. They have to repay their debt to the Province & have operating expenses they need to cover or they'd go broke. They have to have money in the bank to survive like any other company.

[DR. CFL]

The Stamps and Flames are owned and run by the same group of private owners and like the Jets they are bottom line driven. Huff was paid handsomely by the previous ownership with the expectation of results. It would seem they have been reasonably rewarded for their investment. Those results have also come with the byproduct of stability. If you believe that the vault is open in either Calgary or with the Jets line up at the wicket with your hand out and be prepared for nothing. Business is just that.

[iso_55]

If the Stamps ownership called called Calgary Sports & Entertainment Company (CSEC) operated by the Flames are a "bottomless pit" of money then why do the Stamps have probably the worst stadium in the CFL? Why not just fund a new one? The Stamps have an average weight room for players, no indoor practice facility, a 55 year old stadium that woefully needs to be replaced & a season ticket base that for the most part is stagnating & a lot of complaints from fans about the lack of comforts & amenities at McMahon Stadium. Using the bottomless pit logic means that Calgary should have had a  brand new state of the art stadium as well as facilities better than anywhere in the CFL by now. If anything, the Flames (CSEC) want taxpayers here to fund up to $700 million for the proposed Calgary Next project. It's no bottomless pit of money that's for sure. The Stamps are driven by financial performance. The Flames just don't throw away good money for bad with any of their teams.

Edited March 31, 2016 by iso_55

[Atomic]

Even a group with lots of money cares about the bottom line.  Rich people don't get rich by spending recklessly.

[Mr Dee]

I do find it hard to believe that any organization, be it private or public, would intentionally hire people who they don't feel can do a proper job. Mistakes have been made (Mack over Barker) but it wasn't with malicious intent. And the latest hire - Miller, is thought to be a good combination of business/football person. Do you think he intentionally hired Walters based on finances alone? Knowing full well the general public want a better org. from top to bottom. That he puts his reputation on line to save a little cash? Or did he actually feel they had their man in house already? Has Miller not supported football operations monetarily as much, and way more than has happened in the recent past? 

I don't believe they're hanging back, sitting on their wallets, hoping to save a little cash. There's a belief that this group, Miller, Walters, and MOS, are the right combination. We can only hope that this belief comes to fruition. And soon..

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

I do find it hard to believe that any organization, be it private or public, would intentionally hire people who they don't feel can do a proper job. Mistakes have been made (Mack over Barker) but it wasn't with malicious intent. And the latest hire - Miller, is thought to be a good combination of business/football person. Do you think he intentionally hired Walters based on finances alone? Knowing full well the general public want a better org. from top to bottom. That he puts his reputation on line to save a little cash? Or did he actually feel they had their man in house already? Has Miller not supported football operations monetarily as much, and way more than has happened in the recent past? 

I don't believe they're hanging back, sitting on their wallets, hoping to save a little cash. There's a belief that this group, Miller, Walters, and MOS, are the right combination. We can only hope that this belief comes to fruition. And soon..

I find it hard to believe that an organization can make so many bad choices over & over. Boggles the mind to even consider that.  Yeah, this is the year the team has to win.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think it more attests to just how bad of shape this club has been in for so long - tough to look good when you got ****. tbh I think Kelly was the biggest contributor to that all, especially when one of his first orders of business was releasing Kevin Glenn when we picked up LeFors, that started a carousel of instability at QB for years.  Even picking up Buck Pierce proved to be too much in and out.  For all the knocks on KG he was relatively healthy, and while not a world beater has proved time and again to be capable. 

[iso_55]

That was 2009. Eight seasons ago. Kelly turned out to be a terrible choice but the coaches & GM's afterwards chosen afterwards contributed to our continuing mediocrity as well. Kelly was inexperienced, Mack was inexperienced, Butchko inexperienced, LaPo inexperienced, Burke inexperienced, Miller inexperienced, Walters inexperienced & O'Shea inexperienced. That's a whole lot of inexperience thrown at us. In all that time, not one hire with past & proven CFL head coaching or management experience. Are we really expected to believe it's just coincidence or the fact the team won't pay to bring in experienced people?

Edited March 31, 2016 by iso_55

[Taynted_Fayth]

I dont see why we couldnt go back that far, prior to 2008 we had a roughly consistent .500 team but getting older, we bring in kelly and he made some awful moves that snowballed.  Lapo and Mack didnt have much to work with,  but tried to repair the damage left by kelly but other then the exception of 2011 (i think that Pierces health played a big contributing factor to that season) it was still too steep of an uphill climb. Burke and so far the current regime haven't proven to be the difference either and one of the most agreed upon consensus is Willy's health has been a deciding factor in our teams success/woes lately

[Taynted_Fayth]

despite their record last year, KG wasnt their issue in Regina, and he played pretty solid in Calgary, if we had kept him from 2008+  I'd be willing to bet our team wouldnt have been as bad all these years.  Lefors, Bishop, Elliott, Marve, Brink...ect  there's a reason wiki has our last 7-8 years listed as the revolving door era and its our QB'ing more then it's our mangement - but i guess that's chicken or the egg debate

[iso_55]

7 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I dont see why we couldnt go back that far, prior to 2008 we had a roughly consistent .500 team but getting older, we bring in kelly and he made some awful moves that snowballed.  Lapo and Mack didnt have much to work with,  but tried to repair the damage left by kelly but other then the exception of 2011 (i think that Pierces health played a big contributing factor to that season) it was still too steep of an uphill climb. Burke and so far the current regime haven't proven to be the difference either and one of the most agreed upon consensus is Willy's health has been a deciding factor in our teams success/woes lately

But I think you can see where I'm coming from...

[iso_55]

2 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

despite their record last year, KG wasnt their issue in Regina, and he played pretty solid in Calgary, if we had kept him from 2008+  I'd be willing to bet our team wouldnt have been as bad all these years.  Lefors, Bishop, Elliott, Marve, Brink...ect  there's a reason wiki has our last 7-8 years listed as the revolving door era and its our QB'ing more then it's our mangement - but i guess that's chicken or the egg debate

KG would have won a GC here in 2007 over Joseph who looked terrible.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I do, plenty of inexperience across the board, no doubt about it.  but when I see guys like Milanovich go from OC to a successful HC, it makes me believe we've just been missing the talent.  Burke and Lapo had paid their dues as coordinators and it just didnt work out,  (though it almost did for Lapo in 11') Walters was AGM to mack iirc so he was learning the ropes along the way before getting the keys, first as interim GM then as actual GM.  I personally think he's been getting better, but I'm still concerned with scouting. I guess we'll see if theres any gems this year at TC, I think that will be the most telling thing about whether or not we should extend him

Edited March 31, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Bigblue204]

10 hours ago, iso_55 said:

If the Stamps ownership called called Calgary Sports & Entertainment Company (CSEC) operated by the Flames are a "bottomless pit" of money then why do the Stamps have probably the worst stadium in the CFL? Why not just fund a new one? The Stamps have an average weight room for players, no indoor practice facility, a 55 year old stadium that woefully needs to be replaced & a season ticket base that for the most part is stagnating & a lot of complaints from fans about the lack of comforts & amenities at McMahon Stadium. Using the bottomless pit logic means that Calgary should have had a  brand new state of the art stadium as well as facilities better than anywhere in the CFL by now. If anything, the Flames (CSEC) want taxpayers here to fund up to $700 million for the proposed Calgary Next project. It's no bottomless pit of money that's for sure. The Stamps are driven by financial performance. The Flames just don't throw away good money for bad with any of their teams.

you realize there isn't a North american sporting league where the owners build the stadium right? Not even in the NFL. Governments take on the majority of the cost for these things. So it doesn't matter how much $$ a teams owner has when it comes to building a new stadium. It's the city that will have to take that on. If they aren't willing, the owners won't step up.

Though in CGY I'd be surprised if they don't announce one coming in the next year or two.

[Taynted_Fayth]

if this is true, what a start!

[bigg jay]

Not a surprise, they sent out memo's a little while ago telling MLFB players not to report to camp until they heard otherwise.  Cancelling the season was just the next step.

[Brandon]

Does this mean we sign Dan LeFevour!!!!

[Bigblue204]

lots of pissed off players!!!

[holoman]

It's sad that the XFL (glorified tax write-off) was more organized.

[17to85]

21 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Last time we hired a HC with good experience (IE Winning) was Richie back in '99 worked out pretty well IIRC.

I can't remember the last time we hired an experienced GM, but Walters, Mack, Bauer and Reinbold certainly weren't so it's been a long time.

That would be Dave Ritchie as well I suppose. 

[iso_55]

8 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

you realize there isn't a North american sporting league where the owners build the stadium right? Not even in the NFL. Governments take on the majority of the cost for these things. So it doesn't matter how much $$ a teams owner has when it comes to building a new stadium. It's the city that will have to take that on. If they aren't willing, the owners won't step up.

Though in CGY I'd be surprised if they don't announce one coming in the next year or two.

Well, judging by the reaction to Calgary Next by just about everyone, it won't be in the next year or two but the next decade or two. Horrible proposal in the worst possible place in the city. Anyway, the bottomless pit of money reference must include a new stadium because the money is .... well, bottomless. #snapofthefingers

Edited March 31, 2016 by iso_55

[kelownabomberfan]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/374151291.html

Any chance we get Mulumba up here this year???

[bigg jay]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/374151291.html

Any chance we get Mulumba up here this year???

Walters said no.  He said even if Mulumba doesn't get a contract before training camp, he'll probably wait out the year, in case a team needs him due to injury.