Post Season Diagnosis & Therapy

[TBURGESS]

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

 

If there is only one choice for you...why don't you just do a moratorium on bitching and complaining for a while at least.

[Goalie]

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into.

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading.

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

Suicide? Haha

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

 

If there is only one choice for you...why don't you just do a moratorium on bitching and complaining for a while at least.

 

You think that other side should have a moratorium on Sunshine, Rainbows and Unicorns? I don't. What you call bitching and complaining, I call pointing out things that I think are hurting my team. There's been a lot of that lately because we've been horrible. Looking only at the good side or being positive or thinking that we're making all the right moves or being happy about failure don't get us anywhere, but there are those who think being positive is the only way to be a good fan.

 

Both sides want the same thing... The Bombers to be a top team with a realistic chance of not only making the playoffs but winning the whole dang thing. We simply have different opinions on how to get there. Without differing opinions, these forums would whither and die from boredom. 

[bearpants]

 

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

 

This I disagree with... there's still a long way to go and we need to start winning some game ASAP... to say they're damaging the team is short sighted... 2 years ago no one wanted any part in coming to Winnipeg... not coaches, not players, we had no base of NI talent and our import players were suspect... while we still need to improve at bringing in imports, we definitely have a decent stable of base Canadian now... free agents are willing to sign here, and not necessarily b/c we are the highest bidder... this off-season we'll find out if we can attract some top coaching talent... they're putting us back on the CFL map... hopefully that will actually pay off this year...  

 

I still need to see a lot more to be convinced this regime can do more than provide hope... but there is no chance they are actually hurting the team...

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

 

This I disagree with... there's still a long way to go and we need to start winning some game ASAP... to say they're damaging the team is short sighted... 2 years ago no one wanted any part in coming to Winnipeg... not coaches, not players, we had no base of NI talent and our import players were suspect... while we still need to improve at bringing in imports, we definitely have a decent stable of base Canadian now... free agents are willing to sign here, and not necessarily b/c we are the highest bidder... this off-season we'll find out if we can attract some top coaching talent... they're putting us back on the CFL map... hopefully that will actually pay off this year...  

 

I still need to see a lot more to be convinced this regime can do more than provide hope... but there is no chance they are actually hurting the team...

 

This exactly. A guy like Mike Kelly for example was mortgaging the future to try and eke out a few more wins in the present. Walters at least isn't giving away draft picks like it's going out of style or throwing players on the scrap heap instantly if the immediate results aren't there. He is committed to drafting (whether he's good enough at drafting is up for debate) and letting players work on improving with the idea eventually they'll be able to contribute in a larger way. There is a long term plan in place from what I can tell. Even if it winds up not working at least the new GM won't be left with a large tab in the form of lacking draft picks and even bodies at the NI positions. 

 

I think Kyle Walters has some flaws as a GM that he needs to improve on, and as much as I like Mike O'Shea as a coach I can see some areas I'd like him to be better in too... but they aren't actively harming the team long term so I'll give them time before firing them. Only way I fire them is if I can get one of the proven top guys to come here and replace them. 

[bearpants]

Even if it winds up not working at least the new GM won't be left with a large tab in the form of lacking draft picks and even bodies at the NI positions. 

 

 

This is perfect... even if these guys can't get it done... the next guy will have a much better starting point...

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

 

This I disagree with... there's still a long way to go and we need to start winning some game ASAP... to say they're damaging the team is short sighted... 2 years ago no one wanted any part in coming to Winnipeg... not coaches, not players, we had no base of NI talent and our import players were suspect... while we still need to improve at bringing in imports, we definitely have a decent stable of base Canadian now... free agents are willing to sign here, and not necessarily b/c we are the highest bidder... this off-season we'll find out if we can attract some top coaching talent... they're putting us back on the CFL map... hopefully that will actually pay off this year...  

 

I still need to see a lot more to be convinced this regime can do more than provide hope... but there is no chance they are actually hurting the team...

 

Mack didn't pursue free agents he thought he could build a team through scouting. That's the biggest reason that we didn't sign many. Walters strongly pursues free agents to make the team better quicker (it hasn't happened) and because our scouting hasn't provided enough good players. 

 

How can you make a statement like "not necessarily b/c we are the highest bidder" when you don't know what other teams offered? Pretty much every player is going to say they made the right choice for the right reasons once they've been signed. 

 

It will be interesting to see if we can/will attract some top coaching talent. I wouldn't put PLAP into that category and according to Lawless, whose often right, he's our first choice and we're willing to wait to see if he gets other offers. The best coaches will want to be with winners because winning makes you worth more as a coach. We can't offer that. I'd guess that being with a new group trying to turn a team around is preferable to being the last guy in on a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years especially if the new HC has a winning history. Our ability to attract a talented OC will come down to money and a chance at being a HC soon.

 

17...

Having draft picks is great but Walters drafting hasn't been stellar.

 

Long term planning is good but it isn't an excuse for not winning today. It's a balancing act... Good teams (Look as Calgary's drafting for example) plan for tomorrow and win today.

 

You certainly have more patience for losing than I do if you'd only fire folks who aren't doing their jobs if you can get get a known upgrade. As much as I'd like an experienced guy, I'd settle for a new GM like Murphy, who's available BTW, rather than a GM who's already proven he can't do the job. Same goes for the HC spot.

[Goalie]

Murphy has been passed over a few times. Sounds like he might be again. Why is that?

[17to85]

 

17...

Having draft picks is great but Walters drafting hasn't been stellar.

 

Long term planning is good but it isn't an excuse for not winning today. It's a balancing act... Good teams (Look as Calgary's drafting for example) plan for tomorrow and win today.

 

You certainly have more patience for losing than I do if you'd only fire folks who aren't doing their jobs if you can get get a known upgrade. As much as I'd like an experienced guy, I'd settle for a new GM like Murphy, who's available BTW, rather than a GM who's already proven he can't do the job. Same goes for the HC spot.

 

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time? 

[JimmyFartball]

I want to be realistic but I'm a fan so I'm also open to some sunshine and lollypops as well. My problem is that there has been far more stormy weather than sunshiny days with the current regime. Hope some of that is just the mess that needed to be cleaned up. Year 3 is the last chance in my books. No more excuses, get your act together Bombers, or get out of the way and let someone who knows what they are doing fix it.

[GCn20]

I feel the same way you do 17to85. I like some of the stuff they are doing and don't feel it has been total incompetence. We have had some bad luck as well so I am willing to give benefit of the doubt for the time being. However, had the Bombers decided to pull the plug on this regime this offseason, I would certainly have understood that too.

I am open to giving these guys an extended look despite their record, however, I do want them on a short leash. I want Lapo here to take over for O'Shea if need be and I want us to have a backup plan at GM. I am comfortable letting them continue, but I want a plan B as well.

[TBURGESS]

 

 

17...

Having draft picks is great but Walters drafting hasn't been stellar.

 

Long term planning is good but it isn't an excuse for not winning today. It's a balancing act... Good teams (Look as Calgary's drafting for example) plan for tomorrow and win today.

 

You certainly have more patience for losing than I do if you'd only fire folks who aren't doing their jobs if you can get get a known upgrade. As much as I'd like an experienced guy, I'd settle for a new GM like Murphy, who's available BTW, rather than a GM who's already proven he can't do the job. Same goes for the HC spot.

 

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time? 

 

I wasn't calling for O'Shea's or Walters heads at the end of last year because they were rookies who were learning on the job. (I didn't think they should have been hired in the first place, but that's another story.) They weren't rookies this year and they provided even worse results.

 

Walters had a lot of good ideas. I like the way he revamped the scouting department and the way he hired more people, but he didn't staff it properly so it hasn't provided the results it should have. I like the idea of hiring more coaches, but I didn't like the choices. I like the idea of keeping our draft picks, but I don't like his drafting. I like that he's been busy in free agency and is willing to spend to get players to come to Winnipeg, but I don't like that he can't tell who's good and who's bad unless they've already played in the CFL (Ex: QB's/backup). Basically, I like the ideas but the execution isn't there. He's had 2.5 years to improve and I don't see much if any improvement.

 

I liked O'Shea the player and O'Shea the special teams coach. I didn't like him as a rookie HC or as a sophomore for that matter. I think that 2 years is enough to figure out if he has it or not and he's come up way short. It shouldn't take total incompetence in all areas of the job to fire him. Missing the playoffs both years should be enough.

 

This isn't the first time we've given a GM a 3rd year. Joe Mack was given 3 and a half. I remember arguing with you, 17, that he should be fired when we missed the playoffs in 2012. IIRC you said that we needed to bring him back for another year for consistency, so no, we aren't trying something new this time. Were doing what we usually do... Hiring inexperience and then keeping them too long when they aren't working out. The only thing we haven't done yet is extend a losing HC so they won't be a 'lame duck' then pay them to be a TSN coach instead of ours.  That could still easily happen in the offseason.

[DR. CFL]

Patience is all well and good when it is handd out with the other P word....progress. What is the true measure of progress with this team?

[Floyd]

Wow. Off-season bickering starting early.

 

Its going to get ugly when Walters just hands the OC job to Buck... and then we re-up Brohm.

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

 

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into. 

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much.

 

I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. 

 

Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me.

 

If there is only one choice for you...why don't you just do a moratorium on bitching and complaining for a while at least.

 

You think that other side should have a moratorium on Sunshine, Rainbows and Unicorns? I don't. What you call bitching and complaining, I call pointing out things that I think are hurting my team. There's been a lot of that lately because we've been horrible. Looking only at the good side or being positive or thinking that we're making all the right moves or being happy about failure don't get us anywhere, but there are those who think being positive is the only way to be a good fan.

 

Both sides want the same thing... The Bombers to be a top team with a realistic chance of not only making the playoffs but winning the whole dang thing. We simply have different opinions on how to get there. Without differing opinions, these forums would whither and die from boredom. 

 

Always black or white with you. Sunshine or dark clouds. You seem to be lacking any sunshine whatsoever when it comes to "your" team.

[bearpants]

For most of us it's like one of those mid-July days where it's raining... but still sunny for some reason....

[17to85]

 

 

 

17...

Having draft picks is great but Walters drafting hasn't been stellar.

 

Long term planning is good but it isn't an excuse for not winning today. It's a balancing act... Good teams (Look as Calgary's drafting for example) plan for tomorrow and win today.

 

You certainly have more patience for losing than I do if you'd only fire folks who aren't doing their jobs if you can get get a known upgrade. As much as I'd like an experienced guy, I'd settle for a new GM like Murphy, who's available BTW, rather than a GM who's already proven he can't do the job. Same goes for the HC spot.

 

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time? 

 

I wasn't calling for O'Shea's or Walters heads at the end of last year because they were rookies who were learning on the job. (I didn't think they should have been hired in the first place, but that's another story.) They weren't rookies this year and they provided even worse results.

 

Walters had a lot of good ideas. I like the way he revamped the scouting department and the way he hired more people, but he didn't staff it properly so it hasn't provided the results it should have. I like the idea of hiring more coaches, but I didn't like the choices. I like the idea of keeping our draft picks, but I don't like his drafting. I like that he's been busy in free agency and is willing to spend to get players to come to Winnipeg, but I don't like that he can't tell who's good and who's bad unless they've already played in the CFL (Ex: QB's/backup). Basically, I like the ideas but the execution isn't there. He's had 2.5 years to improve and I don't see much if any improvement.

 

I liked O'Shea the player and O'Shea the special teams coach. I didn't like him as a rookie HC or as a sophomore for that matter. I think that 2 years is enough to figure out if he has it or not and he's come up way short. It shouldn't take total incompetence in all areas of the job to fire him. Missing the playoffs both years should be enough.

 

This isn't the first time we've given a GM a 3rd year. Joe Mack was given 3 and a half. I remember arguing with you, 17, that he should be fired when we missed the playoffs in 2012. IIRC you said that we needed to bring him back for another year for consistency, so no, we aren't trying something new this time. Were doing what we usually do... Hiring inexperience and then keeping them too long when they aren't working out. The only thing we haven't done yet is extend a losing HC so they won't be a 'lame duck' then pay them to be a TSN coach instead of ours.  That could still easily happen in the offseason.

 

Look if Joe Mack hadn't give Tim Burke the head coaching duties he woulda been around a lot longer. O'Shea is a much better coach than Burke. Walters has his work cut out for him I've already said that, but there's really no harm in sticking with these guys for another year. A lot of the problems this past season stem from the offense and given that Willy was out most of the year and they've fired the offensive coordinator who is known to be less than stellar at the job I would suggest that it's not too much of a stretch to think the offense will be improved next season. 

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

 

17...

Having draft picks is great but Walters drafting hasn't been stellar.

 

Long term planning is good but it isn't an excuse for not winning today. It's a balancing act... Good teams (Look as Calgary's drafting for example) plan for tomorrow and win today.

 

You certainly have more patience for losing than I do if you'd only fire folks who aren't doing their jobs if you can get get a known upgrade. As much as I'd like an experienced guy, I'd settle for a new GM like Murphy, who's available BTW, rather than a GM who's already proven he can't do the job. Same goes for the HC spot.

 

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time? 

 

I wasn't calling for O'Shea's or Walters heads at the end of last year because they were rookies who were learning on the job. (I didn't think they should have been hired in the first place, but that's another story.) They weren't rookies this year and they provided even worse results.

 

Walters had a lot of good ideas. I like the way he revamped the scouting department and the way he hired more people, but he didn't staff it properly so it hasn't provided the results it should have. I like the idea of hiring more coaches, but I didn't like the choices. I like the idea of keeping our draft picks, but I don't like his drafting. I like that he's been busy in free agency and is willing to spend to get players to come to Winnipeg, but I don't like that he can't tell who's good and who's bad unless they've already played in the CFL (Ex: QB's/backup). Basically, I like the ideas but the execution isn't there. He's had 2.5 years to improve and I don't see much if any improvement.

 

I liked O'Shea the player and O'Shea the special teams coach. I didn't like him as a rookie HC or as a sophomore for that matter. I think that 2 years is enough to figure out if he has it or not and he's come up way short. It shouldn't take total incompetence in all areas of the job to fire him. Missing the playoffs both years should be enough.

 

This isn't the first time we've given a GM a 3rd year. Joe Mack was given 3 and a half. I remember arguing with you, 17, that he should be fired when we missed the playoffs in 2012. IIRC you said that we needed to bring him back for another year for consistency, so no, we aren't trying something new this time. Were doing what we usually do... Hiring inexperience and then keeping them too long when they aren't working out. The only thing we haven't done yet is extend a losing HC so they won't be a 'lame duck' then pay them to be a TSN coach instead of ours.  That could still easily happen in the offseason.

 

Look if Joe Mack hadn't give Tim Burke the head coaching duties he woulda been around a lot longer. O'Shea is a much better coach than Burke. Walters has his work cut out for him I've already said that, but there's really no harm in sticking with these guys for another year. A lot of the problems this past season stem from the offense and given that Willy was out most of the year and they've fired the offensive coordinator who is known to be less than stellar at the job I would suggest that it's not too much of a stretch to think the offense will be improved next season. 

 

Defense was our strength but not a strength when compared to the other teams. We ranked 8th in most of the big stats.

 

Comparing O'Shea (.333 wins) to Burke (.250 wins) isn't the comparison that we need to do. We need to compare O'Shea to the other HC's in the league right now and he doesn't fair well at all.

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

You can complain if you want but O'Shea is the head coach.  I'm with the group that feels a good OC is all we need to be in the mix. Remains to be seen if O'Shea keeps special teams, if not we need someone good there too.

 

A lot of shake ups in the west, we could finish anywhere at this point.  So many unknowns.

[17to85]

 

Defense was our strength but not a strength when compared to the other teams. We ranked 8th in most of the big stats.

 

Comparing O'Shea (.333 wins) to Burke (.250 wins) isn't the comparison that we need to do. We need to compare O'Shea to the other HC's in the league right now and he doesn't fair well at all.

 

That's a tired argument that I absolutely do not like. Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is tantalizing but what they conceal is vital. Here's what I know from watching the games... there were a hell of a lot of games that were winnable with even an average offensive output, we didn't get that. We were lucky in a lot of games to even get a good quarter out of the O let alone a good game. It's the CFL afterall, sometimes you still have to be able to score your way out of trouble, our team failed to do that. The D wasn't perfect but it was good enough and if they can get some better DL I'd have no trouble seeing them get better without too much trouble. 

[White Out]

For those who are saying that O'Shea is a good coach, what the hell are you basing that on?? 

[Mark F]

For those who are saying that O'Shea is a good coach, what the hell are you basing that on?? 

 

I've asked that question a few times.

 

Haven't seen an answer yet, except "continuity"

[DR. CFL]

Continuity has produced 2 disastrous seasons....continuity should produce progress.

[17to85]

For those who are saying that O'Shea is a good coach, what the hell are you basing that on?? 

rabble rabble rabble! NO WINS!!11!!!

 

you aren't interested in reasons you made up your mind to see everything as negative it's not worth wasting words trying to convince you because you don't like to listen to anything other than your own whargarbl