Mass Shootings San Bernardino

[max power]

There's another key difference: a "Christian" killing a bunch of people is exactly opposite of what a Christian is called to do, despite what people who don't read, care about, or understand the Bible like to say. While Muslims killing infidels are actually following what their Koran tells them to do, and indeed emulating what their prophet, Muhammed, did.

[Fatty Liver]

 

For those that think there's a difference between islam, and christianity, as far as promoting violence goes, do I need to post some "pro war" paragraphs from the old testament?

 

comeon man.....

 

people take what they want from religious works.

 

You could do that, and then I could post some paragraphs about how you have a terrible misunderstanding of Christianity (and the Bible).

But what would be the point?  It's still just Muslim terrorists killing everyone. Can't you see that?

 

 

I dispute this statement, as few of these mass shooting events have been linked to Muslim terrorists.  I don't care what the motive or the religion of the nut bars who execute these mass killings is, the fact is 14 more innocent people are dead.  The root of the problem lies in their unrestricted access to excessive fire power and their determination to execute as many people as possible. 

 

Can't find the link but watched a doc. on YouTube earlier this year on black youth gangs in New Orleans where kids as young as 12  were getting their hands on automatic weapons like the one shown in the previous video and using them to mow down other teenage gang members on a nightly basis.  The film-makers easily tracked the sale of these guns to a local inner-city gun shop who was doing a "bang up" business from all the carnage created.  When questioned about excessive sales of automatic weapons in an inner-city neighborhood, the shop owner's response was that his business was perfectly legal and he didn't sell guns to anyone that wasn't qualified.  So why are these weapons legal, when they have no justifiable use but to kill humans?

When the accumulation of money trumps human life, the justification for profit is no longer necessary. 

[sweep the leg]

The world would be a much better place if everybody would just worship the correct god.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

For those that think there's a difference between islam, and christianity, as far as promoting violence goes, do I need to post some "pro war" paragraphs from the old testament?

 

comeon man.....

 

people take what they want from religious works.

 

You could do that, and then I could post some paragraphs about how you have a terrible misunderstanding of Christianity (and the Bible).

But what would be the point?  It's still just Muslim terrorists killing everyone. Can't you see that?

 

 

I dispute this statement, as few of these mass shooting events have been linked to Muslim terrorists.  I don't care what the motive or the religion of the nut bars who execute these mass killings is, the fact is 14 more innocent people are dead.  The root of the problem lies in their unrestricted access to excessive fire power and their determination to execute as many people as possible. 

 

Can't find the link but watched a doc. on YouTube earlier this year on black youth gangs in New Orleans where kids as young as 12  were getting their hands on automatic weapons like the one shown in the previous video and using them to mow down other teenage gang members on a nightly basis.  The film-makers easily tracked the sale of these guns to a local inner-city gun shop who was doing a "bang up" business from all the carnage created.  When questioned about excessive sales of automatic weapons in an inner-city neighborhood, the shop owner's response was that his business was perfectly legal and he didn't sell guns to anyone that wasn't qualified.  So why are these weapons legal, when they have no justifiable use but to kill humans?

When the accumulation of money trumps human life, the justification for profit is no longer necessary. 

 

Well Im pretty sure they arent allowed to buy bombs at the store but the motivation for these killings prompted them to make them.  I agree about gun control.  But lets not pretend the warped ideology that motivates these particular killers isnt a problem...

[The Unknown Poster]

(CNN)Syed Rizwan Farook -- who along with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, carried out the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- apparently was radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

 

Farook's apparent radicalization contributed to his role in the mass shooting of 14 people Wednesday during a holiday party for the San Bernardino County health department, where Farook worked, sources said.

 

Still, it wasn't necessarily the only driver behind the carnage, as workplace grievances might have also played a role. President Barack Obama hinted as much Thursday when he said that the attackers may have had "mixed motives."

 

 

***If you go to CNN, they have a headline saying Terrorism and a sub-story with Obama saying Americans are safe from ISIS. 

[Mark H.]

 

 

Yup. What a joke.

The easiest thing in the world is to immediately stop sale of these weapons. Period. Im pretty ******* sure the founding fathers didnt intend for Americans to get their hands on assault rifles.

Secondly, they have to stop being wishy washy on terrorism. And people need to be told its okay to report suspicions. Its not racial profiling to find suspicious activity by any specific ethnicity or religion to actually be suspicious.

You're still just scraping snow off the top of the mountain. The root of the problem are all the weapons and armoured vehicles being sold to wealthy countries in the Middle East. And North American support for governments who suppress minorities.

 

Fight the battles we can win.

 

 

I have a problem with who's fighting them - there's no real desire to fix the problems

[MOBomberFan]

Missing your point. Are you saying Radical Islam isnt a thing because some nutjob identified as Christian?

People committing violence against abortion clinics are generally lone-nuts attacking a specific thing they hate. They arent waging war on all things unChristian.

Not at all what I'm saying. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Someone on here suggested that 'we know what they mean' when we hear 'terrorism' ( that being radical islam) and that 'radical islam is doing all the killing'. Maybe if you're terrified of anyone from Arabic nations and you ignore all the other reprehensible acts of politically or religiously motivated violence that takes place literally every day in the US then you might have a point.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Missing your point. Are you saying Radical Islam isnt a thing because some nutjob identified as Christian?

People committing violence against abortion clinics are generally lone-nuts attacking a specific thing they hate. They arent waging war on all things unChristian.

Not at all what I'm saying. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Someone on here suggested that 'we know what they mean' when we hear 'terrorism' ( that being radical islam) and that 'radical islam is doing all the killing'. Maybe if you're terrified of anyone from Arabic nations and you ignore all the other reprehensible acts of politically or religiously motivated violence that takes place literally every day in the US then you might have a point.

 

I think when someone comes into this thread and refers to "terrorism" the context is pretty clear.  If you go out on the street and ask random people what they think of when they hear "Terrorism" or "theres been a terrorist attack", they will say something akin to radical Islam. 

 

And this attack was not a lone nut.  Was not a Christian. 

 

Investigators believe San Bernardino female attacker Tashfeen Malik pledged allegiance to ISIS leader, U.S. officials tell CNN. Watch CNNgo.

 

Turns out the people jumping to conclusions seemed to jump to the right ones.

[iso_55]

What other "religiously motivated violence that takes place literally everyday in the US" are you talking about? So some nut job who walks into a school or movie theatre with a gun & starts shooting read the bible & interpreted it was time to kill people?  C'mon.

[MOBomberFan]

What other "religiously motivated violence that takes place literally everyday in the US" are you talking about? So some nut job who walks into a school or movie theatre with a gun & starts shooting read the bible & interpreted it was time to kill people? C'mon.

Boston bombers... were 'self-radicalized' nutjobs. Not funded or trained by any terrorist group. Just a couple kids who had some real messed up beliefs that resulted on the tragic killing and maiming of innocents. But they were also kids from an Arabic nation so they were practically painted as card carrying members of Al quaeda, motivated by a hatred of western beliefs and religious zealotry. If these guys were religiously motivated then so are yor lone nut jobs that 'aren't Christian no matter what they say'

Let's forget the motivations for a sec. How about gun violence in general. How many lives are lost to gun violence in the states every day? Compared to lives lost to acts of domestic or international terrorism? There have been 300 mass shootings in the US in 2015 alone. There have been over 900 mass shootings in the US since Sandy Hook. I don't claim to know the motivation behind every last one of these shootings, but I sincerely doubt they are all random. So I ask you guys, are these mass killers terrorists? Or only the ones named Faruq?

[Mark F]

 

 

For those that think there's a difference between islam, and christianity, as far as promoting violence goes, do I need to post some "pro war" paragraphs from the old testament?

 

comeon man.....

 

people take what they want from religious works.

 

You could do that, and then I could post some paragraphs about how you have a terrible misunderstanding of Christianity (and the Bible).

But what would be the point?  It's still just Muslim terrorists killing everyone. Can't you see that?

 

 

I dispute this statement, as few of these mass shooting events have been linked to Muslim terrorists.  I don't care what the motive or the religion of the nut bars who execute these mass killings is, the fact is 14 more innocent people are dead.  The root of the problem lies in their unrestricted access to excessive fire power and their determination to execute as many people as possible. 

 

Can't find the link but watched a doc. on YouTube earlier this year on black youth gangs in New Orleans where kids as young as 12  were getting their hands on automatic weapons like the one shown in the previous video and using them to mow down other teenage gang members on a nightly basis.  The film-makers easily tracked the sale of these guns to a local inner-city gun shop who was doing a "bang up" business from all the carnage created.  When questioned about excessive sales of automatic weapons in an inner-city neighborhood, the shop owner's response was that his business was perfectly legal and he didn't sell guns to anyone that wasn't qualified.  So why are these weapons legal, when they have no justifiable use but to kill humans?

When the accumulation of money trumps human life, the justification for profit is no longer necessary. 

 

 

Muslims terrorists killing everyone

 

 

 

Muslim terrorists killing "everyone"

 

ridiculous. And your the guy who posted that everyone should have guns. Where does Jesus advocate that?

 

and I guess you would exclude all those muslims from gun ownership right? and probably require them to renounce their religion right?

 

 

The simplicity of this point of view is remarkable. It's all black and white for this poster.

[The Unknown Poster]

You're being obtuse.  Do you want to use the general definition of terrorism or just the current context of the word?  You're arguing a point no one is discussing.

 

Also the elder Boston bomber was a radicalized Muslim.  Aldo a refugee but thats a different can of worms.

[kelownabomberfan]

On other sites I follow, all kinds of people were falling all over themselves admonishing and screaming at anyone who even hinted that Islamic extremists were behind this shooting, pulling the usual terms like "bigot" and "racist" out of their butts, and now it is hilarious watching them back-pedal, to the point you can hear their ankles snapping.  Just unbelievable.  Some people want to live in a dreamland, no matter what the costs. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I think its important to reiterate that no one (as far I know) is suggesting that all Muslim's are bad or that the religion per se is bad.  One could argue all organized religion is a problem (Maher).  That's not the point of these discussions though.

 

I think most people that suggest radical Islam is a problem are not bigots.  Speculating about motives is fair game as humans but it seems its politically incorrect to speculate when it's a potential Islamic motivation.  And I find people are quick to defend Muslim's when for the most part Id like to think the discussion of radical Islam is not an attack on Muslims. 

 

You never want to have to pause to remind everyone you're not a racist or bigot.  Its a sensitive subject, I know.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

CNN

Sources: Syed Rizwan Farook, male shooter in #SanBernardino massacre, was apparently radicalized

 

The world would be a much better place if everybody would just worship the correct god.

[StevetheClub]

I think its important to reiterate that no one (as far I know) is suggesting that all Muslim's are bad or that the religion per se is bad.  One could argue all organized religion is a problem (Maher).  That's not the point of these discussions though.

 

I think most people that suggest radical Islam is a problem are not bigots.  Speculating about motives is fair game as humans but it seems its politically incorrect to speculate when it's a potential Islamic motivation.  And I find people are quick to defend Muslim's when for the most part Id like to think the discussion of radical Islam is not an attack on Muslims. 

 

You never want to have to pause to remind everyone you're not a racist or bigot.  Its a sensitive subject, I know.

 

A very good point I was trying to construct but you've articulated it better.

 

I think motivation is of primary importance. In a lot of ways those who are radicalized are people who already struggle and just found a cause to attach their own struggle to. See this for a good, though short, interview on the profile of mass killers.

 

I think, given the profile, why interventions such as the CureViolence approach find such success.

[StevetheClub]

Found Dr. Sanjay Gupta: The epidemic of gun violence is treatable also enlightening.

[Mark F]

I think its important to reiterate that no one (as far I know) is suggesting that all Muslim's are bad or that the religion per se is bad.  One could argue all organized religion is a problem (Maher).  That's not the point of these discussions though.

 

 

wrong

 

quote from earlier comment on this thread:

 

 

While Muslims killing infidels are actually following what their Koran tells them to do, and indeed emulating what their prophet, Muhammed, did.

 

 

There are lots of people that think this. Probably more than a few at this site.

[MOBomberFan]

You're being obtuse. Do you want to use the general definition of terrorism or just the current context of the word? You're arguing a point no one is discussing.

Also the elder Boston bomber was a radicalized Muslim. Aldo a refugee but thats a different can of worms.

So nobody here suggested that Muslim terrorists are the only ones killing people - and by extension are the only thing we need to be afraid of? Maybe to a critical thinker like you who has already examined the situation from a few angles I'm being simplistic or obtuse... but there are still a lot of people, neighbour's and coworkers, who are quick to blame foreigners for all our ills and ignore the fact we grow our own sickos right here at home.

The point you're discussing is... radical Islam is scary? I agree. So are homophobes and prolifers and the 40% of American Christians who believe we are living in the end times. Ignore me if you don't like my contribution to his noise.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I think its important to reiterate that no one (as far I know) is suggesting that all Muslim's are bad or that the religion per se is bad.  One could argue all organized religion is a problem (Maher).  That's not the point of these discussions though.

 

 

wrong

 

quote from earlier comment on this thread:

 

 

While Muslims killing infidels are actually following what their Koran tells them to do, and indeed emulating what their prophet, Muhammed, did.

 

 

There are lots of people that think this. Probably more than a few at this site.

 

I wouldnt say that's a general statement that all Muslims are bad.

 

I read it as a comment on these particular Muslims killing infidels because of what they think their prophet expects of them.  There are troubling things from Muhammed.  There are also troubling things in the Bible, though I think most people would say Jesus' teachings were more in line with peace, loving they neighbor etc. 

 

I dont know if this is correct but one perspective is that the majority of Christians believe their religion preaches peace and when some nutjob uses the Bible as an excuse to do terrible things, it's roundly seen as not in keeping with Christianity.  But perhaps true devotees of Islam see it differently and that those Muslim's who interpret their religion as peaceful are the minority.  Im no expert in religion.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

You're being obtuse. Do you want to use the general definition of terrorism or just the current context of the word? You're arguing a point no one is discussing.

Also the elder Boston bomber was a radicalized Muslim. Aldo a refugee but thats a different can of worms.

So nobody here suggested that Muslim terrorists are the only ones killing people - and by extension are the only thing we need to be afraid of? Maybe to a critical thinker like you who has already examined the situation from a few angles I'm being simplistic or obtuse... but there are still a lot of people, neighbour's and coworkers, who are quick to blame foreigners for all our ills and ignore the fact we grow our own sickos right here at home.

The point you're discussing is... radical Islam is scary? I agree. So are homophobes and prolifers and the 40% of American Christians who believe we are living in the end times. Ignore me if you don't like my contribution to his noise.

 

You're missing the point.

 

If some lone nutjob attacks a school and does so because they are just crazy or were bullied or worship satan or whatever, that's a terrible tragedy.  And we could have a thread about that.  But if someone came into that thread and said "forget the lone nut job that killed 10 children, what about those radical Islamic terrorists?" it would be equally off topic.

 

No one has suggested there arent other tragedies, that there arent other killers.  But this topic is about a specific act that looks like it was committed by two people who were motivated by radical Islam.  So what does someone killing in the name of the Bible or Satan or their opposition to abortion or because they were abused or because they got fired from their job have to do with it?

 

If someone runs into your work right now and says "there was just a terrorist attack", do you immediately think 'radical islam' or do you wonder what religion, ethnicity, motivation or whatever might be the culprit?  Regardless of your answer, most people would immediately envision a perpetrator that looks like someone with the name Syed Rizwan Farook.  

[Fatty Liver]

This shooting was a bizarro/hybrid event, a few items that makes this different than the typical Muslim extremist terrorist attack.

1. A male/female team

 

2. No shouting of religious sayings

3. Planned to survive.

4. Was an employee with conflict with coworkers.

 

5. This couple had a young child together.

[The Unknown Poster]

This shooting was a bizarro/hybrid event, a few items that makes this different than the typical Muslim extremist terrorist attack.

1. A male/female team

 

2. No shouting of religious sayings

3. Planned to survive.

4. Was an employee with conflict with coworkers.

 

5. This couple had a young child together.

 

Did they actually plan to survive?  I would think engaging the police in a shoot out and throwing bombs at them would be the acts of people pretty much expecting to be killed.

[MOBomberFan]

You're right, most people would immediately envision a perpetrator with the Jafar beard and some bushy eyebrows, but the actual reality is that here... today in the place that we live, our wacko neighbour's are more dangerous than the 1 in 25000 or so Muslims that turn out to be terrorists. If that's not a point you care to discuss that's fine, but I reiterate that some people here are suggesting that our boogeyman has a face (and probably a beard...) and I'm saying if you want to live in fear you don't need boogeyman, you already have neighbour's.

[kelownabomberfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFpRAzlMrTM#t