The Environment Thread

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

I couldn't agree more, so let's stop insisting that the science is settled and calling people names (deniers, skeptics, warmists etc.) and get back to work on what matters, getting the science right. 

How do you define settled?

 

[pigseye]

23 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

How do you define settled?

 

You can look up the definition of settled on your own.

To quote Michael Soussan of the UN 'truth isn't fact, it's consensus'. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

36 minutes ago, pigseye said:

You can look up the definition of settled on your own.

Why would I do that? Going by your post history, it would differ vastly from most agreed upon definitions. If you want to continue your "argument" you may want to shore up some of the semantics in your choice of words. 

36 minutes ago, pigseye said:

To quote Michael Soussan of the UN 'truth isn't fact, it's consensus'. 

 

Quote

 

Scientific consensus is the collective judgment, position, and opinion of the community of scientists in a particular field of study. Consensus implies general agreement, though not necessarily unanimity.

 

Once you can understand that scientific consensus is not unanimity- you will understand evidence based research better. 

 

"Scientific literacy is an intellectual vaccine against the claims of charlatans who would exploit ignorance."

-Neil deGrasse Tyson.

 

 

[pigseye]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Why would I do that? Going by your post history, it would differ vastly from most agreed upon definitions. If you want to continue your "argument" you may want to shore up some of the semantics in your choice of words. 

 

Once you can understand that scientific consensus is not unanimity- you will understand evidence based research better. 

 

"Scientific literacy is an intellectual vaccine against the claims of charlatans who would exploit ignorance."

-Neil deGrasse Tyson.

 

 

close but you forgot the most important parts

Scientific Consensus does NOT mean that:

• the position is definitive: the consensus can evolve with the results from further research and contrary opinions.

Therefore, Scientific Consensus is NOT a synonym of "Certain Truth".

Why are contrary opinions being shouted down when the very definition of consensus states that they are necessary for the science to evolve?

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

58 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Why are contrary opinions being shouted down when the very definition of consensus states that they are necessary for the science to evolve?

I don't think you are cherry picking data points to evolve science- please stop, you are being disingenuous. 

[pigseye]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682618305030

No cherry picking here. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

6 hours ago, pigseye said:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682618305030

No cherry picking here. 

Damn brah... that there is some serious sciencin'. I am ******* convinced. Thank you for sharing that link to completely unravel that Global warming cabalist conspiracy that the Earth is warming... well duh it's the mother ******* sun... Not humans.... so dumb. I wish the liberal fake mainstream media would stop spreading their lies and lining the fat cat research scientists' pockets- ******* greedy 1% scientists.... with their lavishblifestyles and billion dollar mansions.... Goddamned illuminati builderburg shadow government fucks and their carbon tax to fund their humans to Gay frog/dog/human hybridization programs. 

 

 

 

[Fatty Liver]

On 2019-01-24 at 6:03 PM, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Damn brah... that there is some serious sciencin'. I am ******* convinced. Thank you for sharing that link to completely unravel that Global warming cabalist conspiracy that the Earth is warming... well duh it's the mother ******* sun... Not humans.... so dumb. I wish the liberal fake mainstream media would stop spreading their lies and lining the fat cat research scientists' pockets- ******* greedy 1% scientists.... with their lavishblifestyles and billion dollar mansions.... Goddamned illuminati builderburg shadow government fucks and their carbon tax to fund their humans to Gay frog/dog/human hybridization programs. 

 

You forgot to blame da Suzuki man.

[Mark H.]

On 2019-01-24 at 8:03 PM, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Damn brah... that there is some serious sciencin'. I am ******* convinced. Thank you for sharing that link to completely unravel that Global warming cabalist conspiracy that the Earth is warming... well duh it's the mother ******* sun... Not humans.... so dumb. I wish the liberal fake mainstream media would stop spreading their lies and lining the fat cat research scientists' pockets- ******* greedy 1% scientists.... with their lavishblifestyles and billion dollar mansions.... Goddamned illuminati builderburg shadow government fucks and their carbon tax to fund their humans to Gay frog/dog/human hybridization programs. 

 

 

 

And don’t forget that the earth is flat. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

32 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

And don’t forget that the earth is flat. 

Don't EVEN get me started on those crazy libtards who peddle that "round earth" theory. ******* Luddites... 

[Mark H.]

41 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Don't EVEN get me started on those crazy libtards who peddle that "round earth" theory. ******* Luddites... 

Sheep & shills - the lot of them.

[Mark F]

12 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

 

You forgot to blame da Suzuki man.

Suzuki has three big houses.

Therefore climate change is not caused by burning fossil fuels.

 

The old people aren't going to do anything. Looks like the kids are starting to take over on this.
 

Quote

 

My Message to Davos Elites: Act As If Our House Is on Fire. Because It Is.

"Either we choose to go on as a civilization or we don't. That is as black or white as it gets. There are no grey areas when it comes to survival."

by

Greta Thunberg

 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/25/my-message-davos-elites-act-if-our-house-fire-because-it

Edited January 26, 2019 by Mark F

[Mark H.]

Who is going to step up and make the sacrifices? Hydrocarbons enable the lifestyle we currently take for granted. The agriculture industries are huge carbon users, through fuels, fertilizers and chemicals. If changes are made in the energy sector,  food prices have no where to go but up.  

Meanwhile, I guess we can sit in our affluent surroundings, write articles and create memes. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

On 2019-01-26 at 10:30 PM, Mark H. said:

Meanwhile, I guess we can sit in our affluent surroundings, write articles and create memes. 

Or:

- we can teach our children about waste, energy consumption, recycling and repurposing things. 

- Elect government officials that have a solution in mind and advocate a green shift.

- Educate. Everyone. 

- control the things you can- swap out light bulbs, car pool, use automobiles more effectively. If you can afford a small wind turbine or solar cell, get them.

- demand laws that enable a green shift- The CARB law in California (which was rolled back  )  that required a percentage of new vehicles produced be carbon neutral. 

- a few well placed enterating Memes.

 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Or:

- we can teach our children about waste, energy consumption, recycling and repurposing things. 

- Elect government officials that have a solution in mind and advocate a green shift.

- Educate. Everyone. 

- control the things you can- swap out light bulbs, car pool, use automobiles more effectively. If you can afford a small wind turbine or solar cell, get them.

- demand laws that enable a green shift- The CARB law in California (which was rolled back  )  that required a percentage of new vehicles produced be carbon neutral. 

- a few well placed enterating Memes.

 

Easier to just ignore science and pretend it isn't true. Science is for geeks anyhow. I don't see it, so it can't be true. 

[Mark F]

On 2019-01-26 at 8:30 PM, Mark H. said:

Hydrocarbons enable the lifestyle we currently take for granted

pretty hard for farmers to grow crops without a relatively stable climate.

renewable energy is in the process of becoming the cheapest source of energy. It's already there in some places in the US, without subsidy..

like it or not, It's past time to move on from fossil fuels.

Small country Denmark was an early adopter, and is the world leader in the wind turbine industry. many jobs for them.

Let's be like them.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Mark F

[Mark H.]

25 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Or:

- we can teach our children about waste, energy consumption, recycling and repurposing things. 

- Elect government officials that have a solution in mind and advocate a green shift.

- Educate. Everyone. 

- control the things you can- swap out light bulbs, car pool, use automobiles more effectively. If you can afford a small wind turbine or solar cell, get them.

- demand laws that enable a green shift- The CARB law in California (which was rolled back  )  that required a percentage of new vehicles produced be carbon neutral. 

- a few well placed enterating Memes.

 

The bottom line is living with less - which most of us suck at - badly.  eg. Manitoba has more passenger vehicles than licensed drivers. We’re having fewer children but building larger houses. 

I don’t see any will to do the kind of work that would be required if farming were done with fewer hydrocarbons. Ask any vegetable or fruit grower who does their physical work. Teach children how to pull weeds, butcher chickens and gather potatoes - no one can be exempt from this kind of work. 

Recycling. The current solution is to ship it all to China, who turn it into products that keep our dollar stores full. 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

pretty hard for farmers to grow crops without a relatively stable climate.

renewable energy is in the process of becoming the cheapest source of energy. It's already there in some places in the US, without subsidy..

like it or not, It's past time to move on from fossil fuels.

Small country Denmark was an early adopter, and is the world leader in the wind turbine industry. many jobs for them.

Let's be like them.

Nitrogen fertilizer is an oil product - I didn’t know Denmark stopped using it. If you want those kinds of changes, be prepared for the sacrifices that come with them - it won’t be just farmers making sacrifices. 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Easier to just ignore science and pretend it isn't true. Science is for geeks anyhow. I don't see it, so it can't be true. 

I’m not ignoring Science, I’m pointing the realities of these changes. 

[JCon]

Just now, Mark H. said:

I’m not ignoring Science, I’m pointing the realities of these changes. 

I'm not suggesting you were. I'm looking for real solutions, just like you are. I'm only pointing out that the science is real and that we need to find ways to make pollution and uncontrolled consumption more costly, rather than downloading the problem to future generations. The polluters already have. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

42 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

The bottom line is living with less - which most of us suck at - badly.  eg.Manitoba has more passenger vehicles than licensed drivers. We’re having fewer children but building larger houses. 

I don’t see any will to do the kind of work that would be required if farming were done with fewer hydrocarbons. Ask any vegetable or fruit grower who does their physical work. Teach children how to pull weeds, butcher chickens and gather potatoes - no one can be exempt from this kind of work. 

Recycling. The current solution is to ship it all to China, who turn it into products that keep our dollar stores full. 

Agreed. We do need to cut back.  and just to make changes as well.

Manitoba cars for example- start a incentive program that cuts the difference in price between an electric car and a combustible engine one. We are ahead a step because most of our electricity here in Manitoba is renewable.  

Build greener houses. With government incentives as well or just start requiring new houses to be made more greener. 

Farming can be done while cutting back on hydrocarbons. There are plenty of viable alternatives to nitrogen fertilizers.  

Also, when breeding plants (and animals) - place more focus on nutrition density as well as on yield. Too much breeding has been to emphasis yield over nutrition density.

All children should know about  pulling weeds, butcher chickens and gather potatoes. We've created a disconnect with our food and where it comes from - we need to learn again how to feed ourselves. 

Well, perhaps create recycling station (that actually recycles) in each major city and do things in house.

 

All the above requires education,  money and political will... 

we don't have the final word on any of that- but we can start the conversation and steer it in the direction we want.

[Mark F]

 

China has stopped taking our waste "recycled" materials. Stuff that's sent some other places for recycling, gets dumped in the ocean.

solution.....  stop using throwaway packaging products.

RE farming, there's a report out today in The Lancet about how farming  might  have to change. 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Mark F

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Mark F said:

China has stopped taking our waste "recycled" materials. Stuff that's sent some other places for recycling, gets dumped in the ocean.

solution.....  stop using throwaway packaging products.

RE farming, there's a report out today in The Lancet about how farming  might  have to change. 

 

There are lots of things we can do to address our waste and I would start there.

Incremental changes to farming are necessary and I hope they can be done without killing off the last of the family farms or affecting the supply chain. Ultimately, I think we're going to rely more on legumes for our diet in the future and meat will be produced in labs. It's not terribly appealing, I know, but we'll get over it. It's not about eliminating meat but reducing our reliance on it and the environmental impact. 

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

There are lots of things we can do to address our waste and I would start there.

Incremental changes to farming are necessary and I hope they can be done without killing off the last of the family farms or affecting the supply chain. Ultimately, I think we're going to rely more on legumes for our diet in the future and meat will be produced in labs. It's not terribly appealing, I know, but we'll get over it. It's not about eliminating meat but reducing our reliance on it and the environmental impact. 

I agree with you. they are growing meat in labs for burger, which is according to some people, quite good. Also, in Asia, growing vegetables in factories. a lot of vegetables.

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

There are lots of things we can do to address our waste and I would start there.

Incremental changes to farming are necessary and I hope they can be done without killing off the last of the family farms or affecting the supply chain. Ultimately, I think we're going to rely more on legumes for our diet in the future and meat will be produced in labs. It's not terribly appealing, I know, but we'll get over it. It's not about eliminating meat but reducing our reliance on it and the environmental impact. 

I think we will be looking at insects in the future as a potent source of protein.