The Environment Thread

[Tracker]

17 minutes ago, Mark F said:

The Age, Australian newspaper.

 

 

"News Corp’s climate change shame

From next month, News Corp Australia will end its long-standing editorial hostility towards carbon reduction policies and advocate that the world’s leading economies hit net zero emissions by 2050.

 

 The Age’s Zoe Samios has written that columnists will not be muzzled but some will be expected to reframe their political arguments, though Sky News Australia boss Paul Whittaker said he was not aware of any plan to limit the views of dissenting conservative commentators. It’s a remarkable about-turn for a company that has for many years been a safe harbour for those peddling distortions of the truth about the warming of the planet. Somehow justified by a commitment to a ‘‘diversity of opinions’’, News Corp has supported, encouraged and amplified views that have repeatedly stymied any attempts by governments in Canberra to implement tough measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It has brought fringe opinion in and pumped it into the political mainstream, and it has ridiculed and taunted those, including in politics, who want stronger action. The rationale for the change is a well-kept secret, but News Corp insiders have indicated pressure from advertisers may have played a part. That theory played out this week, with the shift being welcomed by one of Australia’s largest advertisers, Coles, which has moved to position itself as the nation’s most sustainable supermarket."

 

"Another former News Corp executive who would only speak on the condition of anonymity suspected the decision was taken to remain relevant to metro and younger audience, saying “I doubt they will censor the extremities in their opinion writers, where deranged views will reign uninterrupted. It has little to do with anything other than spin and camouflage.”

Same thing is happening at Fox news. too late.  obviously momey related in some way.

the disgusting, repulsive Rupert Murdoch is the cause of much misery.

In pure, unadulterated irony, Fox news and network has mandated COVID double vaccination as a condition of continued employment. Murdoch is like a drug dealer, profiting from the ignorance and gullibility of people and caring not about the deaths and misery inflicted.

[Mark F]

3 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Murdoch is like a drug dealer, profiting from the ignorance and gullibility of people and caring not about the deaths and misery 

I despise the  man. a completely loathsome person.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Mark F

[the watcher]

17 hours ago, Tracker said:

In pure, unadulterated irony, Fox news and network has mandated COVID double vaccination as a condition of continued employment. Murdoch is like a drug dealer, profiting from the ignorance and gullibility of people and caring not about the deaths and misery inflicted.

I don't know if I find that funny or if it makes me angry. I'm kind of stuck on " really ? " If Fox is doing that maybe it's the beginning of a change in mind set down there. Although the cynical part of me thinks most Fox employees are already double vaxed and don't say or deny because they make alot of coin peddling their BS.

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/climate-change-action-report-1.6176546

Quote

Nearly every nation, including Canada, is coming up short — most of them far short — in their efforts to fight climate change, and the world is unlikely to hold warming to the internationally agreed-upon limit, according to a new scientific report.

Only one nation — tiny Gambia in Africa — is on track to cut emissions and undertake its share of actions to keep the world from exceeding the Paris agreement goal of limiting warming to 1.5 C (2.7 F) of warming since pre-industrial times, the report said.

Only one industrialized nation — the United Kingdom — is even close to doing what it should to cut emissions of heat-trapping gases and finance clean energy for poorer nations, the Climate Action Tracker reported Wednesday.

Canada's actions were deemed to be "highly insufficient," along with Australia and China.

Canada's profile:

[Bigblue204]

On 2021-09-12 at 7:17 AM, the watcher said:

I don't know if I find that funny or if it makes me angry. I'm kind of stuck on " really ? " If Fox is doing that maybe it's the beginning of a change in mind set down there. Although the cynical part of me thinks most Fox employees are already double vaxed and don't say or deny because they make alot of coin peddling their BS.

It's been reported for a while now that ****** (sorry tucker) Carlson was double vaxxed early.

[the watcher]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

It's been reported for a while now that ****** (sorry tucker) Carlson was double vaxxed early.

In my mind that makes him a morality  wh*re

Edited September 15, 2021 by the watcher

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

canada's profile:

Liberal ,party, conservative party, on this at least, not a dimes worth of difference. not sure the ndp would be any better.

 

Trudeau is all in on oil. early on, after becoming Prime minister,  he actually got an award from the oil imdustry

 

"The world leader who just this year talked about “phasing out the oil sands,” a massive petroleum exploration project in northern Alberta, will be receiving a major energy award in Houston Thursday night.

At what’s known as CERAWeek, event organizers will be honoring Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for his self-proclaimed ability to balance an energy-driven economy with environmental messages.

Trudeau is also slated to give the keynote address Thursday night and will be the first Canadian prime minister to do so.

Trudeau has run afoul of some of his closest environmental supporters in Canada when he approved two major oil pipelines within the last six months — including the cross-border Keystone XL line."

 

might as well have stephen harper, at least he was up front about it.

the worlds leaders cower before the oil industry.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Mark F

[Mark F]

I think this is a big moment.

 

"Democratic leaders on the U.S. House Oversight and Reform Committee sent letters Thursday inviting the heads of key fossil fuel companies and lobbying groups to testify before the panel about the industry's contributions to climate disinformation in recent decades.

We are also concerned that to protect those profits, the industry has reportedly led a coordinated effort to spread disinformation to mislead the public and prevent crucial action to address climate change," the pair continued. They also expressed concern that such "strategies of obfuscation and distraction continue today," noting that "fossil fuel companies increasingly outsource lobbying to trade groups, obscuring their own roles in disinformation efforts."

 

common dreams

 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/09/16/dems-call-fossil-fuel-ceos-lobbyists-testify-about-climate-disinformation

Edited September 16, 2021 by Mark F

[WildPath]

7 hours ago, Mark F said:

I think this is a big moment.

 

"Democratic leaders on the U.S. House Oversight and Reform Committee sent letters Thursday inviting the heads of key fossil fuel companies and lobbying groups to testify before the panel about the industry's contributions to climate disinformation in recent decades.

We are also concerned that to protect those profits, the industry has reportedly led a coordinated effort to spread disinformation to mislead the public and prevent crucial action to address climate change," the pair continued. They also expressed concern that such "strategies of obfuscation and distraction continue today," noting that "fossil fuel companies increasingly outsource lobbying to trade groups, obscuring their own roles in disinformation efforts."

 

common dreams

 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/09/16/dems-call-fossil-fuel-ceos-lobbyists-testify-about-climate-disinformation

I hope you're right that it will lead to something, but I'm extremely pessimistic at any effort to hold either big oil or organizations that spread disinformation accountable. There's so much money at stake and that money has bought a lot of friends over the years.

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, WildPath said:

I hope you're right that it will lead to something, but I'm extremely pessimistic at any effort to hold either big oil or organizations that spread disinformation accountable. There's so much money at stake and that money has bought a lot of friends over the years.

they do seem to have control.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://news.sky.com/story/california-worlds-largest-tree-wrapped-in-flame-resistant-blanket-to-save-it-from-wildfires-12410546

Edited September 17, 2021 by FrostyWinnipeg

[Mark F]

 

quite remarkable, end od September. 

Underneath this "hottest" blob of positive anomalies in North America it was 100°F at Hazen, ND Tuesday afternoon. This is the hottest reading that far north in recorded history for so late in September.

@extremetemps

Edited September 29, 2021 by Mark F

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/06/fossil-fuel-industry-subsidies-of-11m-dollars-a-minute-imf-finds

Quote

The fossil fuel industry benefits from subsidies of $11m every minute, according to analysis by the International Monetary Fund.

The IMF found the production and burning of coal, oil and gas was subsidised by $5.9tn in 2020, with not a single country pricing all its fuels sufficiently to reflect their full supply and environmental costs. Experts said the subsidies were “adding fuel to the fire” of the climate crisis, at a time when rapid reductions in carbon emissions were urgently needed.

Explicit subsidies that cut fuel prices accounted for 8% of the total and tax breaks another 6%. The biggest factors were failing to make polluters pay for the deaths and poor health caused by air pollution (42%) and for the heatwaves and other impacts of global heating (29%).

Absolute insanity.

[Tracker]

                                                       

[Mark H.]

^^ where's the logic? Big corporations profit because we buy from them. And no, not just by travelling. 

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

^^ where's the logic? Big corporations profit because we buy from them. And no, not just by travelling. 

how much money  has any corporation put into transition.

how much money have they put into stopping transition. 

they are opposing, ferociously, right now, biden efforts to start the  transition.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Mark F

[Mark H.]

Just now, Mark F said:

how much money  has any corporation put into transition.

how much money have they put into stopping transition.

 

It is beyond stupid to state that our own footprints don"t make a dent. Corporations do not exist in vacuum. 

[Mark F]

16 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

It is beyond stupid to state that our own footprints don"t make a dent. Corporations do not exist in vacuum. 

stupid?

nope.

it is an attempt to shirk repsonsibility. divert attention. from the fact that they resist change. that they will fight tooth and nail to continue as they always have.

in short, its a P.R. job brought to you by oil , coal and gas.

 

they have lied, obfuscatedopposed, bribed, intimidated for decades. 

 

article,that discusses this issue

https://climateandcapitalism.com/2010/08/15/did-consumers-cause-the-bp-oil-disaster/

 

and yeah people need to stop driving huge trucks to the corner store and the like.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Mark F

[WildPath]

3 hours ago, Mark F said:

stupid?

nope.

it is an attempt to shirk repsonsibility. divert attention. from the fact that they resist change. that they will fight tooth and nail to continue as they always have.

in short, its a P.R. job brought to you by oil , coal and gas.

 

they have lied, obfuscatedopposed, bribed, intimidated for decades. 

 

article,that discusses this issue

https://climateandcapitalism.com/2010/08/15/did-consumers-cause-the-bp-oil-disaster/

 

and yeah people need to stop driving huge trucks to the corner store and the like.

I believe this is a huge reason behind "stop polluting" initiatives. Industry successfully pushed responsibility onto the public. Obviously consumers can vote with their dollars, but this doesn't happen enough to have a big effect - look at the situation we're in now. Most people are obsessed with buying at the lowest possible price, rather than limiting consumption and voting with dollars. Governments embrace this by offering incentives to big corporations for under the guise of employment benefits. Corporations love this power and "give back" to the community through initiatives that remove their responsibility and place it in the hands of the consumer, often while getting further tax incentives or straight up government grants.

[Mark F]

19 minutes ago, WildPath said:

believe this is a huge reason behind "stop polluting"

plastic "recycling"..... oil company idea. 

all goes to the ocean, or the landfill. complete scam.

land fill operator:

"I remember the first meeting where I actually told a city council that it was costing more to recycle than it was to dispose of the same material as garbage," she says, "and it was like heresy had been spoken in the room: You're lying. This is gold. We take the time to clean it, take the labels off, separate it and put it here. It's gold. This is valuable."

But it's not valuable, and it never has been. And what's more, the makers of plastic — the nation's largest oil and gas companies — have known this all along, even as they spent millions of dollars telling the American public the opposite. None of this plastic will be turned into new plastic things. All of it is buried."

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled

19 minutes ago, WildPath said:

Obviously consumers can vote with their dollars,

.how much choice do we actually have anyway. actually....not much.  that is what the article I posted is about.

how much revenue will car makers be out, when electric cars are the norm. entire repair shop business is done. they have managed to get  laws passed in some states prohibiting tesla from opening dealerships. lol.

Toyota, is lobbying the us government to slow down the transition to electric. lol. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Mark F

[Mark H.]

My father in law runs a plastic shop. He buys recycled plastic all the time. I recently saw plastic in his shop that had previously been pill bottles. 

You figure they run recyclables through the sorting machine, bundle them up and then bury them? Not all recyclables get recycled, but plenty do. 

[WildPath]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

plastic "recycling"..... oil company idea. 

all goes to the ocean, or the landfill. complete scam.

land fill operator:

"I remember the first meeting where I actually told a city council that it was costing more to recycle than it was to dispose of the same material as garbage," she says, "and it was like heresy had been spoken in the room: You're lying. This is gold. We take the time to clean it, take the labels off, separate it and put it here. It's gold. This is valuable."

But it's not valuable, and it never has been. And what's more, the makers of plastic — the nation's largest oil and gas companies — have known this all along, even as they spent millions of dollars telling the American public the opposite. None of this plastic will be turned into new plastic things. All of it is buried."

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled

.how much choice do we actually have anyway. actually....not much.  that is what the article I posted is about.

how much revenue will car makers be out, when electric cars are the norm. entire repair shop business is done. they have managed to get  laws passed in some states prohibiting tesla from opening dealerships. lol.

Toyota, is lobbying the us government to slow down the transition to electric. lol. 

 

 

One of the biggest choices we have is consuming less. Many needs are actually wants. Many real needs can have a more environmentally friendly solution. To take your example. Despite efforts to ensure the status quo, we still can buy electric cars readily now. Many people who need a vehicle could actually get by with limited vehicle use, do informal car-shares or join Peg City Car Coop (I don't know anyone who has done this, but it seems like a good alternative)

Similarly, many of the food choices we make could be significantly less harmful for the environment. Sure, there are big attempts to commercialize this with Beyond Meat, etc. (I haven't really looked into how much better this is) but we can also simply make lentil burgers or something similar instead of crushing some pork chops.

Sure, many powerful elements in our society are conspiring to make this seem impossible or very onerous, but there are many ways we can actually vote with our dollars. But going beyond that, we can also try to expose those that are doing environmentally harmful activities, hold governments accountable when they allow/encourage industry to keep up their dirty tricks, and attempt to elect governments who value society over industry.

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

My father in law runs a plastic shop. He buys recycled plastic all the time. I recently saw plastic in his shop that had previously been pill bottles. 

You figure they run recyclables through the sorting machine, bundle them up and then bury them? 

yeah, Thats what I figure.  

 

here are some stats for you.

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/what-percent-recycling-actually-gets-recycled

 

"This will likely come as no surprise to longtime readers, but according to National Geographic, an astonishing 91 percent of plastic doesn’t actually get recycled. This means that only around 9 percent is being recycled. As if that weren’t enough, nearly all of that plastic that does get recycled is actually downcycled, which means it gets less and less useful every time, eventually becoming so flimsy that it can no longer be recycled properly.

As it is, that 91 percent just sits in landfills, piling up and breaking down slowly into arguably more dangerous microplastics. National Geographic reports that by 2050, approximately 12 billion metric tons of plastic will be sitting in landfills across the globe. For scale, that amount of plastic weighs approximately 35,000 times more than the whole Empire State Building."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Mark F

[Mark H.]

Cardboard is definitely recycled. It is a floating commodity, worth about $140 a ton right now. Many businesses accumulate and sell their cardboard packaging. 

Glass is often ground up and mixed with gravel, which is then used for roads or concrete.

There's no reason to not recycle metal - scrap yards pay $$ for it every day. 

I am not sure why plastic is hard to recycle. Plastic bags, yes. But containers can simply be ground up, packed in bulk bags and sold to manufacturers.  The recycling company does not need to melt the plastic pellets - the manufacturer does that when they use it. Even plastic that is new, is bought as pellets. 

It would be interesting to see some local recycling stats, from the Brady landfill, for example. 

[Mark H.]

https://simplyrecycle.ca/debunking-recycling-myths/#more-2948