The Environment Thread

[JCon]

I'm glad you've kept this on topic and not pulled it down like the Canadian Politics thread. 

 

But, since the topic is the environment and holding China accountable... 

Paris Agreement to which China is a signatory.

 

What does the CPC have for a platform? 

 

[blue_gold_84]

19 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yeah, we know Trudeau is a true world "leader" & never points fingers at any other country. BTW, the words Trudeau & world leader is an oxymoron. 

Also see: you and critical thinker.

2 hours ago, JCon said:

I'm glad you've kept this on topic and not pulled it down like the Canadian Politics thread. 

You sure about that? It seems like the same garbled commentary with no basis in reality.

Canada's been burning for weeks now and the usual suspects attempt to derail yet another thread with conspiracy theories and falsehoods related to climate change.

[JCon]

41 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Also see: you and critical thinker.

You sure about that? It seems like the same garbled commentary with no basis in reality.

Canada's been burning for weeks now and the usual suspects attempt to derail yet another thread with conspiracy theories and falsehoods related to climate change.

I was being facetious. Ranting about LBGTQ+ is all meant to distract from the topic. 

[Mark F]

23 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Most Canadians are not willing to make the sacrifices to lifestyle this action requires, so I guess our children will get what they deserve. 

children?

no offence intended, that is 

oil company propaganda.

I think living in a city, spending most of your days indoors, distorts, and dulls most people's perception of the natural world. Hot day? go inside. have a nice glass of cold water. Imagine no air con, well dried up. 

but, it is here, now. effects are obvious and dire. right now.

"The Donnie Creek wildfire in northeastern British Columbia has now surpassed the 2017 Plateau fire as the largest individual fire, by area burned, ever recorded in the province's history.

It was sparked on May 12 by lightning, according to the B.C. Wildfire Service (BCWS), and covers an area of 5,343.88 square kilometres as of 10 a.m. PT on Sunday. It is still not responding to suppression efforts and remains out of control, according to the BCWS.

Before this year — which has seen an unusually early start to fire season — the largest single fire was the 2017 Plateau fire near Williams Lake, an amalgamation of several smaller fires that burned a total of 5,210 square kilometres."

the two largest fires in history, within five years.

but The bears, deer, wolves, foxes, squirrels, plants, birds, and the people resident in that

huge area understand.  

But yeah, much worse coming for sure.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Mark F

[Fatty Liver]

58 minutes ago, Mark F said:

children?

no offence intended, that is 

oil company propaganda.

I think living in a city, spending most of your days indoors, distorts, and dulls most people's perception of the natural world. Hot day? go inside. have a nice glass of cold water. Imagine no air con, well dried up. 

but, it is here, now. effects are obvious and dire. right now.

"The Donnie Creek wildfire in northeastern British Columbia has now surpassed the 2017 Plateau fire as the largest individual fire, by area burned, ever recorded in the province's history.

It was sparked on May 12 by lightning, according to the B.C. Wildfire Service (BCWS), and covers an area of 5,343.88 square kilometres as of 10 a.m. PT on Sunday. It is still not responding to suppression efforts and remains out of control, according to the BCWS.

Before this year — which has seen an unusually early start to fire season — the largest single fire was the 2017 Plateau fire near Williams Lake, an amalgamation of several smaller fires that burned a total of 5,210 square kilometres."

the two largest fires in history, within five years.

but The bears, deer, wolves, foxes, squirrels, plants, birds, and the people resident in that

huge area understand.  

But yeah, much worse coming for sure.

 

Yep, and you won't find those details on the evening news, if it's outta sight, it's outta mind.  I live in the BC interior within a huge forested region, the last 5-6 summers have been misery, thick smoke rolls in and rarely dissipates until late Sept.  In the decade I lived in this location prior to that, being smoked out was a rare occurrence, it's no longer a question of "if" I will be burned out, but more "when" will it be my turn to flee.

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/sinomine-tanco-expansion-manitoba-1.6897808

Quote

The Chinese owner of the Tanco mine in eastern Manitoba has revived talk of partly draining a lake in order to extract more cesium from one of the world's few deposits of the critical mineral.

Sinomine Resource Group is musing about a long-term redevelopment of its mine it purchased in 2019 along the shore of Bernic Lake, a small Canadian Shield body of water located between Whiteshell and Nopiming provincial parks.

The goal is to reach cesium that can not be mined right now because it's embedded in vertical columns that hold up the roof of the underground mine.

The Beijing-based company's preferred option for the Manitoba mine, however, would be to partly drain Bernic Lake in order to reach cesium from the surface, Sinomine's Frank Wang told the Globe in a story published June 17.

"The final goal definitely is we want to have open-pit mining," Wang told the Toronto-based newspaper.

No plans have been forwarded to the provincial government, said Manitoba Environment and Climate Minister Kevin Klein, adding he was unaware of the company's desire to drain part of Bernic Lake until Wednesday.

Tanco's previous owner approached the province with a plan to partly drain the lake a decade ago but did not obtain approval.

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

I was being facetious. Ranting about LBGTQ+ is all meant to distract from the topic. 

WHAT?!?!?! You mean what people do with their own naughty bits is not of world-shaking importance? Heresy, I say, heresy!

[Tracker]

Hailstorm Results in Spain 12 hours ago:

 

                                                                

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/backlash-brews-texas-law-eliminates-mandatory-water-breaks-rcna92961

[Dan38]

On 2015-12-06 at 11:04 PM, kelownabomberfan said:

I believe that the climate is always changing. I also think that billions upon billions of dollars already spent have been a massive waste of resources that could have been spent in many many other ways to benefit mankind. Is man generated CO2 affecting the climate? Maybe. Let's actually prove it first, then see if we can slow or stop it. Meanwhile millions of Africans can be brought out of poverty. Save them first. Then waste money on unproven hypotheses.

 I called this scam out when it first rose from the snake oil Gore was selling. What a waste but look at all the revenue the Gov's get from all the hype. Another money grab. If they really looked at the truth instead of blindly believing the IPCC report and computer models they might find that there are other causes of the supposed CO2 increase. What if it is the sun causing climate change ? How about a tilt in the earth's axis ? Only problem is our wonderful leaders can't tax the sun or the earth, they only have gullible humans to tax. Of course it is all our fault ! Throw money at it. It won't solve anything but gee it's nice to have so much money to play with. Never mind poverty or pollution or illness or disease, once we applaud the Emperor's clothes we can all live happily ever after.

[WildPath]

9 minutes ago, Dan38 said:

 I called this scam out when it first rose from the snake oil Gore was selling. What a waste but look at all the revenue the Gov's get from all the hype. Another money grab. If they really looked at the truth instead of blindly believing the IPCC report and computer models they might find that there are other causes of the supposed CO2 increase. What if it is the sun causing climate change ? How about a tilt in the earth's axis ? Only problem is our wonderful leaders can't tax the sun or the earth, they only have gullible humans to tax. Of course it is all our fault ! Throw money at it. It won't solve anything but gee it's nice to have so much money to play with. Never mind poverty or pollution or illness or disease, once we applaud the Emperor's clothes we can all live happily ever after.

Seriously?

‘Case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans

Poverty, pollution, illness and disease all worsened due to climate change. I'd post more, but I'm fairly confident that would be a waste of time.

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, WildPath said:

Seriously?

nothing better to do with their time than dig back 8 years on this thread, to find an old  post.

these people are still around. 

amazing is it not?

I saw a post years ago.... a person said sea level rise was not happening.... cause he went to a waterside dock he was familiar with, and measured it by eyeballing it. saw no change.

thats what we are dealing with.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Mark F

[JCon]

32 minutes ago, Mark F said:

nothing better to do with their time than dig back 8 years on this thread, to find an old  post.

these people are still around. 

amazing is it not?

I saw a post years ago.... a person said sea level rise was not happening.... cause he went to a waterside dock he was familiar with, and measured it by eyeballing it. saw no change.

thats what we are dealing with.

 

They can't wrap their heads around science and other complicated matters, so they cry and whine that's its fake. Just give them a cookie and send them on their way. 

[Dan38]

 People sure do like to prove Mr. Barnum right.

 

On ocean levels; the ocean rises about one foot every 100 years or so, has been for centuries. It's why we find remnants of towns 400 feet under water. The world was a vastly different place even 2000 years ago. Shorelines were not what recognize today. I can wrap my head around science especially the type that has nothing to gain from it's results.

 

 The old "99.9% of scientists agree about climate change" chant. That would be almost all scientists, right ? So why should anyone believe what a biologist says about climate change or how about that pharmacologist or that zoologist because they all know everything about the climate, don't they ?

 

Keep on running scared people. it's amazing what brainwashing can do.

I thought there were more people waking up. Alas...

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

On 2023-07-06 at 8:53 AM, JCon said:

I'm glad you've kept this on topic and not pulled it down like the Canadian Politics thread. 

 

But, since the topic is the environment and holding China accountable... 

Paris Agreement to which China is a signatory.

 

What does the CPC have for a platform? 

 

Well, if you want to know what poor man's milhouse would do, just look to what trump did with the Paris climate accord. You'll find your answer.

 

 

[WildPath]

6 hours ago, Dan38 said:

 People sure do like to prove Mr. Barnum right.

 

On ocean levels; the ocean rises about one foot every 100 years or so, has been for centuries. It's why we find remnants of towns 400 feet under water. The world was a vastly different place even 2000 years ago. Shorelines were not what recognize today. I can wrap my head around science especially the type that has nothing to gain from it's results.

 

 The old "99.9% of scientists agree about climate change" chant. That would be almost all scientists, right ? So why should anyone believe what a biologist says about climate change or how about that pharmacologist or that zoologist because they all know everything about the climate, don't they ?

 

Keep on running scared people. it's amazing what brainwashing can do.

I thought there were more people waking up. Alas...

Your response is that "hey, non-climate scientists also agree the humans are causing climate change?" That's how you defend your view?

A better response would be to show how the majority of climate scientists (being specific with the science that they study) don't agree that humans are causing climate change. Obviously you didn't do that because you can't.

You could have also tried to express your own personal qualifications for why you think professional scientists are wrong.

If you want the take from climate-specific scientists - The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change | Science.

Not sure what you are saying that some science has nothing to gain from the results. Pretty much any industry that relies on fossil fuels benefits from any uncertainty related to climate science. These are huge corporations that have significant political power and a history of using it in nefarious ways. ExxonMobil has had accurate climate models for decades that have reliably predicted climate change from emissions and tried to spread uncertainty related to climate change to justify the billions of dollars that they rake in.

Quote

Previous investigations have unearthed Exxon documents that suggest the company sought to spread doubt about the science. One internal paper set out the "Exxon position" to "emphasise the uncertainty in scientific conclusions" about the greenhouse effect.

 

[the watcher]

14 hours ago, Dan38 said:

 People sure do like to prove Mr. Barnum right.

 

On ocean levels; the ocean rises about one foot every 100 years or so, has been for centuries. It's why we find remnants of towns 400 feet under water. The world was a vastly different place even 2000 years ago. Shorelines were not what recognize today. I can wrap my head around science especially the type that has nothing to gain from it's results.

 

 The old "99.9% of scientists agree about climate change" chant. That would be almost all scientists, right ? So why should anyone believe what a biologist says about climate change or how about that pharmacologist or that zoologist because they all know everything about the climate, don't they ?

 

Keep on running scared people. it's amazing what brainwashing can do.

I thought there were more people waking up. Alas...

Of course climate is always changing.  The Milankovitch cycles guarantee that. It has been hotter. It has been colder. But that doesn't mean that what we are in now is natural. The vast, vast percentage of scientists involved with anything to do with our climate agree that our reliance on carbon fuels is affecting our climate adversely. And it's the speed that it is happening and the fact that it is a global phenomenon that will be the ass kicker.  When there has been rapid climate change in the past the effect on local societies has been devastating. 

As far as changing shorelines don't forget alot of that is from erosion. But if you are talking changes over  thousands of years it's different .It allows time for societies to adapt. The isostatic rebound you see in Manitoba for instance  will eventually move Lake Winnipeg down to the city of Winnipeg . But the time line is about 10,000 years. What we are doing now world wide would be the equivalent of waiting till the Lake is flowing over the perimeter to react.

I'm  not a huge fan of the carbon tax at all but thats because I'm  not sure we are getting the best bang for our efforts .  But I suppose it's a start. I'd prefer to start with removing the up to 15 billion dollar subsidies Canada is giving to the oil industry. Pour that 15 billion directly into green initiatives.  I'd rather have seen the rail lines that are vastly more efficient have remained in place. I'd rather see an better effort to get cars off the roads in our cities. I'd rather see that money go into educating people on their personal responsibility for climate change.  

[the watcher]

I'm not sure if this has been posted  but  750 miles on a 10 minute charge is a game changer for a country like Canada. Imagine where technology will take this kind of thing in 20 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

[the watcher]

This is a bit of a shocking number. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/10/heatwave-last-summer-killed-61000-people-in-europe-research-finds

[Mark F]

4 hours ago, the watcher said:

This is a bit of a shocking number. 

I don't think anyone can actually tell how bad this is going to be.

We are really just  getting started.

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

On 2023-07-08 at 8:03 AM, Dan38 said:

 I called this scam out when it first rose from the snake oil Gore was selling. What a waste but look at all the revenue the Gov's get from all the hype. Another money grab. If they really looked at the truth instead of blindly believing the IPCC report and computer models they might find that there are other causes of the supposed CO2 increase. What if it is the sun causing climate change ? How about a tilt in the earth's axis ? Only problem is our wonderful leaders can't tax the sun or the earth, they only have gullible humans to tax. Of course it is all our fault ! Throw money at it. It won't solve anything but gee it's nice to have so much money to play with. Never mind poverty or pollution or illness or disease, once we applaud the Emperor's clothes we can all live happily ever after.

 

 

 

I have spent years discussing this- there is no debate, the consensus is there, so this is all deniers get from me at this point. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[Mark H.]

An environmental topic that is near to my heart:

TREES

In summer, I am out and about harvesting dead hardwoods for firewood. 

I am seeing more dead ash, oak and maple than I'm used to - especially the oak.

In the past, dead oak was either beaver chewed or the creek washed soil away from their roots. This is no longer the case - some massive oaks are just dead.

 

[Fatty Liver]

12 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

An environmental topic that is near to my heart:

TREES

In summer, I am out and about harvesting dead hardwoods for firewood. 

I am seeing more dead ash, oak and maple than I'm used to - especially the oak.

In the past, dead oak was either beaver chewed or the creek washed soil away from their roots. This is no longer the case - some massive oaks are just dead.

 

Birch are dying or dead in my region of BC, within 5 years I think they'll all be gone.

[WildPath]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

An environmental topic that is near to my heart:

TREES

In summer, I am out and about harvesting dead hardwoods for firewood. 

I am seeing more dead ash, oak and maple than I'm used to - especially the oak.

In the past, dead oak was either beaver chewed or the creek washed soil away from their roots. This is no longer the case - some massive oaks are just dead.

 

I've noticed some oaks dying as well. Any hypothesis as to why so many this year?

[Mark H.]

3 minutes ago, WildPath said:

I've noticed some oaks dying as well. Any hypothesis as to why so many this year?

They took a beating due to the 2021 drought. Then 2022 was excessively wet - led to stagnant, standing water.

I am also noticing a white film on the trunks...fungus?