The Environment Thread

[kelownabomberfan]

On 2019-01-31 at 3:27 PM, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

I think he was implying that you were wearing the man-diapers.  

Not sure why it would be me. I wasnt the one blocking people for calling into question highly questionable statements. The Syria thing really threw me for a loop. Don't get that at all.

Edited February 2, 2019 by kelownabomberfan

[kelownabomberfan]

On 2019-01-31 at 2:53 PM, Mark F said:

There are several hundred billion dollars of cleanup costs for abandoned oil wells in Alberta.  There are no deposits when the company goes out of business to cover these. The Provincial and Federal government will be paying these.

Several hundred billion eh? The most "out there" environmental websites I can find say that the cost is more likely $40 billion. Hundreds of billions seems to be really really on the high side. Did you look into that number at all or know where it came from? I will agree though that clean up costs need to be dealt with. I wouldn't classify them as a subsidy though.

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l

There are numerous examples of this. Poisoned rivers, and lakes, increased cancer (see Indians that live near tar sands projects) 

If you are talking about the First Nations at Fort Chip that has long been proven to be a hoax. The doctor that made the fake "study" was canned several years ago. The cancer rates weren't higher. The whole "cancer rates are higher"thing was a fraud. The Chief now is a big oil sands proponent and all is good. 

https://www-cbc-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4613003?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fedmonton%2Ffort-mcmurray-first-nations-and-m%C3%A9tis-pipelines-1.4613003

It's sad that these fake news stories get so much attention, and the exposure of the fraud gets so little attention. You would have known that you had been played!

 

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yeah, the insults are obnoxious, as is the superior attituode.

I agree. But I have gotten used to it from the man-made climate change crowd. They hate being challenged, on anything. And either run away when called out, or claim you are "attacking" them. Whatever happened to defending a position? Why is that so unacceptable?

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Probably  messaging each other about "triggering the libtards"

blocking is good.

 

Well I certainly wouldn't say anything about "libtards" as that would imply that you guys aren't smart. That isn't the case. You guys are smart. I just think that you might have let innate confirmation biases cloud your judgement. It's good to question accepted norms. It's good to have conversations with those who disagree with you. It's good to listen to the other side. Blocking people and running away when questioned just leads to closed minds never opening. I don't block people, ever.

Edited February 2, 2019 by kelownabomberfan

[Mark H.]

If government has to cover an oil company’s clean up costs - how is that not a subsidy? 

I’ll use manure management in the farming sector as an example. They come to your farm and dictate exactly what you’re supposed to do - but they sure won’t pay a dime of the costs. 

[kelownabomberfan]

38 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

If government has to cover an oil company’s clean up costs - how is that not a subsidy? 

I’ll use manure management in the farming sector as an example. They come to your farm and dictate exactly what you’re supposed to do - but they sure won’t pay a dime of the costs. 

I think the oil companies should be on the hook for it no question.  Are they not? If not, why not?

[Mark H.]

10 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I think the oil companies should be on the hook for it no question.  Are they not? If not, why not?

I’ve read several articles. Basically, the more I read the the less I know. It’s literally the elephant in the room, though. 

Most articles indicate 2 - 3 billion dollars are needed. 

[Fatty Liver]

14 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I think the oil companies should be on the hook for it no question.  Are they not? If not, why not?

I posted this in another thread, knowing this one would eventually be locked. 😀

Supreme Court rules energy companies must clean up old wells — even in bankruptcy

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/supreme-court-redwater-decision-orphan-wells-1.4998995

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I think the oil companies should be on the hook for it no question.  Are they not? If not, why not?

https://www.producer.com/2018/03/orphan-wells-albertas-47-billion-problem/

 

A combination of an Alberta court case, federal bankruptcy law and a lack of cleanup deadlines has ballooned the number of orphaned wells that are no longer the financial responsibility of oil companies, 

 

this is what is supposed to happen when a well is "dry":

https://www.aer.ca/regulating-development/project-closure/suspension-and-abandonment/how-are-wells-abandoned

 

But Companies can just keep the well open even if not in use. Several companies have just had a ton of "dry" wells sitting there doing nothing with no required timeline enforced so these well remain in limbo- thousands of them... then the company goes bankrupt and no money recovered from the bankruptcy goes towards clean up... so who gets stuck with the bill? Us the Tax payers. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

8 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I posted this in another thread, knowing this one would eventually be locked. 😀

Supreme Court rules energy companies must clean up old wells — even in bankruptcy

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/supreme-court-redwater-decision-orphan-wells-1.4998995

SWEET! that was like yesterday.... damn makes my last post almost obsolete now... lol

 

Anyways- that is an awesome ruling. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Fatty Liver]

13 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

https://www.producer.com/2018/03/orphan-wells-albertas-47-billion-problem/

 

A combination of an Alberta court case, federal bankruptcy law and a lack of cleanup deadlines has ballooned the number of orphaned wells that are no longer the financial responsibility of oil companies, 

 

this is what is supposed to happen when a well is "dry":

https://www.aer.ca/regulating-development/project-closure/suspension-and-abandonment/how-are-wells-abandoned

 

But Companies can just keep the well open even if not in use. Several companies have just had a ton of "dry" wells sitting there doing nothing with no required timeline enforced so these well remain in limbo- thousands of them... then the company goes bankrupt and no money recovered from the bankruptcy goes towards clean up... so who gets stuck with the bill? Us the Tax payers. 

Here's what happens quite often, companies create smaller shell corps. down to the level of an individual well, then when it's tapped out they pull out and declare bankruptcy on the shell corp. leaving the costs to the gov't for cleanup with no way to go after the extracted wealth.   This practice has gone on for decades and neither the AB. govt. nor the oil patch has done anything to discourage it.  May they rot in hell.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

About time these companies clean up these well sites & if creditors have to wait too frigging bad. And I'm pro oil & not an environmentalist. I just think it's corporate irresponsibility to leave the cost of clean up to landowners & provincial government.

Edited February 2, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[Mark H.]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

About time these companies clean up these well sites & if creditors have to wait too frigging bad. And I'm pro oil & not an environmentalist. I just think it's corporate irresponsibility to leave the cost of clean up to landowners & provincial government.

I think you’re both, as we all should be. 

[kelownabomberfan]

11 hours ago, Mark H. said:

I’ve read several articles. Basically, the more I read the the less I know. It’s literally the elephant in the room, though. 

Most articles indicate 2 - 3 billion dollars are needed. 

That sounds a bit more saner than "hundreds of billions". I always take what Tides and Sierra say and divide by 10 to get the actual.  Some multiple by 10 it appears.

There should be a political will to get oil companies to pony up the $3 billion needed. I agree.

[kelownabomberfan]

It suddenly got really quiet in here....everyone is probably too cold to post right now!

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

14 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

It suddenly got really quiet in here....everyone is probably too cold to post right now!

Or if you are Australia- melting. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/australia-heat-wave-analysis-intl/index.html

 

That is nuts!

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[kelownabomberfan]

20 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Or if you are Australia- melting. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/australia-heat-wave-analysis-intl/index.html

 

That is nuts!

 

Sounds a lot like the Dirty Thirties. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

14 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Sounds a lot like the Dirty Thirties. 

Over there perhaps- but in other places in Australia- Monsoon flooding with Crocodiles. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47112044

 

 

Climate change drastically disrupted the Earth's water cycles- I am not surprised by whats going on in Australia. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[kelownabomberfan]

4 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Over there perhaps- but in other places in Australia- Monsoon flooding with Crocodiles. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47112044

 

 

Climate change drastically disrupted the Earth's water cycles- I am not surprised by whats going on in Australia. 

So they have never experienced anything like this before ever? And there is no other explanation? It has to be "man-made" climate change (I assume that is what you meant)?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

So they have never experienced anything like this before ever? And there is no other explanation? It has to be "man-made" climate change (I assume that is what you meant)?

Good questions. Please Let me know, when you come across anything.

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[pigseye]

59 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

So they have never experienced anything like this before ever? And there is no other explanation? It has to be "man-made" climate change (I assume that is what you meant)?

It's weather plain old simple weather. 

[kelownabomberfan]

On 2019-02-05 at 2:54 PM, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Good questions. Please Let me know, when you come across anything.

 

Did you mean man made climate change or natural climate change? You didn't specify. 

[Wideleft]

"The hottest five years on record are, in fact, the last five years. The year 2016, which was 1.69 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the 20th-century average, holds the top spot, with 2018 at 1.42 degrees F warmer."

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/06/692060375/2018-was-earths-fourth-hottest-year-on-record-scientists-say

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

39 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

"The hottest five years on record are, in fact, the last five years. The year 2016, which was 1.69 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the 20th-century average, holds the top spot, with 2018 at 1.42 degrees F warmer."

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/06/692060375/2018-was-earths-fourth-hottest-year-on-record-scientists-say

So... you're saying that the Earth is on a cooling trend?

 

AHA! Climate change deniers aren't trolls after all! They don't have their heads buried in their asses!

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Did you mean man made climate change or natural climate change? You didn't specify. 

I wasn't the one making the statement. You were. 

Therefore- did you mean natural or man made?

[kelownabomberfan]

23 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

So... you're saying that the Earth is on a cooling trend?

 

AHA! Climate change deniers aren't trolls after all! They don't have their heads buried in their asses!

Who is denying that climate change exists? The climate is always changing. As AOC said, this is "our World War 2".

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Who is denying that climate change exists? The climate is always changing. As AOC said, this is "our World War 2".

Too many people. 

Should have stated manmade climate change.

Are you sure your not a closet Democrat? Cuz now you are quoting AOC. 😀😀