Star Wars: Spoiler Thread Discussion

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think the crushing blow for Padme was the fact anakin killed all those younglings according to Obi Wan, and then Anakin basically blamed Obi Wan for turning her against him by ratting him out. I think the force choke on her  in which he thinks he killed her, wasn't a good apology to her for his previous actions either. At that point (the force choke) was finally the last straw for Obi Wan conceding he truly was lost to the dark side, nevermind the outright massacre he committed prior at the Jedi temple, and even there on Mustafar, tho Obi Wan wasn't aware of that 2nd one. 

 

It seems like Lucas loosely based a lot of these stories on various religions, and has apparently even said he's fascinated by them (?).  The whole premise of the Holy ghost, is a spirit on earth that helps guide and teach humans, not much unlike the spirit forms these jedi became. While I dont think that theory in that link I posted is right all in all, there's some merit to various points in it

Edited January 22, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Taynted_Fayth]

another interesting point, not necessarily accurate,  was Palpatine admits he killed his master Darth Plagueis, who said he learned how to prevent death from.  going left  field in thinking in maybe Jedi who are on the light side have the ability to join the force when they die, Sith on the other hand while using the dark side of it,  can be reborn and anakin was actually Plagueis reincarnated. I dont hold much opinion on that but there is definitely distinct differences on what side of the force you use, such as lightning from your hands, which both the emperor and count dooku/Darth Tyrannus could do.

 

but I still dont think Snoke is Plagueis, this seems to be the generally accepted image of Plagueis;

[The Unknown Poster]

Id be fine if Snoke was Plaguies but I think the similar musical score was a red herring.

 

[Logan007]

Remember Taynted, that picture of Plagueis is from a book that is no longer canon, so at this time, we don't know what race Plagueis is.  Although I have a feeling it's not Snoke.  I started thinking about it, if he was Plagueis, why wouldn't he just call himself that?  No one even knew who Plagueis was other then Palpatine as the sith kept themselves hidden.  So why even lie about your name.

Who knows what they have up their sleeves.

[Taynted_Fayth]

i cant remember if he says who (race) are in during their meeting but there was, what appears to be a representative of Plagueis' race in Episode 3, but I also believe in Episode 2 on Mustafar when they are discussing the death star and over throwing the republic

 

[The Unknown Poster]

All speculation when it comes to the EU especially and even non-"on screen" developments.  The filmmakers have the ability to change whatever they want.

Why I like the Plageius idea is that it immediately speaks to the power of Snoke, as assuming Palpatine thinks he killed him, it would mean Snoke WAS able to cheat death and laid low all this time for some reason (presumably a nefarious reason).  It also brings the Prequels into the story more.  As it stands the prequels really have little to no bearing on the saga.  You dont have to see them to watch and appreciate the saga.  As much as they sucked, I think it's important to include them.

Snoke said he had seen the rise and fall of the empire.  So regardless of who he was, he was around during the time of the Prequels.  We can assume (until its confirmed or denied) that he IS a Sith as he referred to completing Kylo's training.  They might try to say he's just a Dark Side user or a Dark Jedi but I think that muddies the waters unnecessarily.  The saga story is basically a simple good vs evil story of fall and redemption.  Jedi vs Sith.  Im not sure I'd try to muddy that.  Unless their idea to make it make sense that the Saga continued is that the Sith WERE destroyed but there is this new evil that the Skywalker's must eradicate before the saga truly ends...

[Logan007]

You guys should check out the Collider Jedi Council on youtube.  They go into some deep stuff sometimes.  I watch their show almost religiously...not just Jedi Council but their regular movie news as well.  They have their Jedi Council discussion every Thursday.  I think you'd be interested in it.

And they hate the prequels like most of us do.

[bb.king]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I think he lied about learning to prevent death.  That was one of Lucas' simplistic ideas to show "evil".  Anakin turned to save Padme and the moment he did, he declared his loyalty to Palpatine and said "Ill do whatever you ask.  Just save her" (or something like that), to which Palpatine replied "Im sure if we combine our knowledge we will learn how to save her" (or something like that).

But the implication, to me, was that Palpatine learned to manipulate the force to creative Anakin but never bothered to learn how to prevent death.  On the other hand, if the story is true that Plageuis DID learn both of these powers and Palpatine learned one, it stands to reason he likely learned the other too.  So its possible he did know how to "prevent" death but lied to Anakin.  One interesting thing is how similar the Sith and Jedi were portrayed.  They both needed Anakin to lose Padme.  Palpatine needed her to die so even if he could save her, he never would have.

In fact, the goofy death of Padme might be more than it seems.  She was perfectly fine but "lost the will to live".  Which didnt make sense especially as she implored Obi Wan that there was good in Anakin.  If she had given up hope of Anakin's redemption, then sure, die.  But if she really believed he was good, why would she "lose the will to live"?  It made little sense.  If she had given up all hope, it would further have made Luke's redemption of Anakin all the more emotional.

As an aside, regarding the Padme death scene, wasnt it odd how they introduced the twins?  If I recall Luke was born first and she touched his cheek.  Leia was then born and she didnt touch her at all.  I always figured they'd reverse that and use that to explain why Leia could remember her mother.  Perhaps they thought the touch was Padme giving Luke the touch of Force or something...I dont know.  Weird.

Im hoping they delve more into the Prequels next Episode and help make them make more sense.

A bit off topic, but something always seemed really stupid to me about when Padme was giving birth. The medical droid tells Yoda and Obi-Wan that they need to work quickly if they want to save the babies, and Yoda and Obi-Wan are clearly surprised at the word babies. With all of their highly advanced medical technology didn't Padme ever have a freakin' pre-natal exam!! And Yoda and Obi-Wan, with their highly advanced force powers, couldn't somehow detect that she was carrying twins.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, bb.king said:

A bit off topic, but something always seemed really stupid to me about when Padme was giving birth. The medical droid tells Yoda and Obi-Wan that they need to work quickly if they want to save the babies, and Yoda and Obi-Wan are clearly surprised at the word babies. With all of their highly advanced medical technology didn't Padme ever have a freakin' pre-natal exam!! And Yoda and Obi-Wan, with their highly advanced force powers, couldn't somehow detect that she was carrying twins.

Thats a good point.  I assumed at the time that she had kept secret that it was twins. 

Ofcourse the whole hiding them from vader is weird too.  Luke lives on Anakin's home planet.  As a Skywalker.  That should raise suspicions. 

Lucas just wrote awful films and then tried to shoehorn in some semblance of connection to the originals. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

Without the knowledge of Luke,  Anakin was aware he had a half brother on Tatooine from his mother own admission when she said she was bought by a farmer named Cliegg Lars, and he treated her right (as to why he wouldnt seek revenge for him losing her to those sand people in episode 2)

 

all in all He didnt have any reason to go back to tatooine, its kinda of weird tho of all the planets and systems,  a new hope starts off with them on tatooine with the droids.  Like Leia knew where to find Obi Wan, must not have been as low key a secret as yoda wanted if Senator Organa spilled the beans

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

Without the knowledge of Luke,  Anakin was aware he had a half brother on Tatooine from his mother own admission when she said she was bought by a farmer named Cliegg Lars, and he treated her right (as to why he wouldnt seek revenge for him losing her to those sand people in episode 2)

 

all in all He didnt have any reason to go back to tatooine, its kinda of weird tho of all the planets and systems,  a new hope starts off with them on tatooine with the droids.  Like Leia knew where to find Obi Wan, must not have been as low key a secret as yoda wanted if Senator Organa spilled the beans

Well I assume Obi Wan told Organa to send for him if he was in dire need.  And he thought the Death Star was a "dire need" scenario.  Perhaps Rogue One will tease some of this.  I assume the old guy from the beginning of TFA will be a character in Rogue One.  Lars San Tekka or whatever his name was.

[Logan007]

Seriously...we're trying to make sense of the PREQUELS!?!?!?

"Your father was already a great pilot when I first met him" = WAHOOO I CANZ FLY A SHIP!!  LET'S SEE WHAT THIS DOEZ R2!!!

Omg...so....bad.....*huddles into a ball shivering*

[Brandon]

13 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

another interesting point, not necessarily accurate,  was Palpatine admits he killed his master Darth Plagueis, who said he learned how to prevent death from.  going left  field in thinking in maybe Jedi who are on the light side have the ability to join the force when they die, Sith on the other hand while using the dark side of it,  can be reborn and anakin was actually Plagueis reincarnated. I dont hold much opinion on that but there is definitely distinct differences on what side of the force you use, such as lightning from your hands, which both the emperor and count dooku/Darth Tyrannus could do.

 

but I still dont think Snoke is Plagueis, this seems to be the generally accepted image of Plagueis;

[Blueballz]

So who is Rey's parents...or is she one of the Jedis Luke trained but survived the massacre. 

 

Was she told to lay low. Is that why she already seemingly had a grasp on The Force.

[The Unknown Poster]

22 minutes ago, Blueballz said:

So who is Rey's parents...or is she one of the Jedis Luke trained but survived the massacre. 

 

Was she told to lay low. Is that why she already seemingly had a grasp on The Force.

I'm guessing Luke's daughter he thought was dead. Or Kylo's little sister. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

Only reason id highly doubt kylos sister is they outright admit Ben solo is han n leia's son, the age gap between them (kylo and rey) isnt significant enough where kylo wouldnt know he has a sister. He turns evil after luke trains him, and padawons are supposed to start young, but we'd be talking like luke took him to train at 2 or 3. Unless reys got padme aging skills

Edited January 24, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[The Unknown Poster]

Kylo knows who she is. From Rey's vision which showed kylo apparently slaughtering the Jedi trainees but sparing her

he also reacted terribly when told Poe and the droid escaped "with a girl". He demanded "what girl!?"  

His taking off his helmet when interrogating her was symbolic of looking on her with his own eyes. He was looking closely wondering if she could be the same little girl he spared years before.  Her reversal of his mind rape was further proof to him which is why he storms out. 

i think he couldn't bring himself to kill her so he jedi mind tricked her into forgetting and ditched her on Jaaku.  Her having some jedi training would explain her sudden "awakening" accidently initiated by Kylo's mind probe. 

i keep coming back to what Kathleen Kennedy said. The saga is the story of the Skywalkers. Making her anyone but Luke or Leia's kid would alter the dynamic of the saga. 

[Blueballz]

18 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I'm guessing Luke's daughter he thought was dead. Or Kylo's little sister. 

I thought of the daughter angle but didn't seem like a greeting between father and daughter rather a "Hello Master" type of thing.

Kylo's little sister would and could make a lot of sense.

Or could it be another Anakin situation where she was born to a mother who didn't have a known dad.

[Taynted_Fayth]

Maybe shes luke and leias kid lol that kiss on hoth was pretty hot n heavy, but who wants to admit to inbreeding, its not like they were royalty

[Taynted_Fayth]

Oh wait... princess

[Blueballz]

46 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

Maybe shes luke and leias kid lol that kiss on hoth was pretty hot n heavy, but who wants to admit to inbreeding, its not like they were royalty

Maybe that's the fourth line..."The Dark Side leads to inbreeding"...LOL

[Brandon]

54 minutes ago, Blueballz said:

Maybe that's the fourth line..."The Dark Side leads to inbreeding"...LOL

The Skywalkers are Rider fans?

[Blueballz]

17 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The Skywalkers are Rider fans?

That would truly be a "disturbance in the Force"...

[Logan007]

I don't think she's Luke and Leia's kid.  They would have said something to her.

Here is my theory, which I may or may not have already posted:

Rey is Luke's daughter.  She was being trained as a Jedi when Kylo was turned to the dark side and killed all the Jedi apprentices...except one.  He could not kill his little cousin.  As in the movie, he was still fighting with the light side and not fully turned.  He stole Rey, used his force powers to mind wipe her (as you see in the movie, he seems to be an expert at messing with people's minds), and hid her away on a planet not unlike his grandfather's homeworld of Tatooine.  That way she could neither be found by Snoke, or trained to be a Jedi.  When one of the officer's mentions a girl on Jakku escaping with the droid, he gets extremely angry, almost like he knows who she is.  He recognizes her on Starkiller base when she force pulls Anakin/Luke's old lightsaber.  in the book he looks at her after she does this and says "it is you!" so he does know who she is.  JJ made a comment early on that all the names of the characters may not be their actual names.  In her journal book which you can now purchase in the stores, she makes it sound like she gave herself the name Rey after the pilot who died on the battle of Jakku, Dosmit Raeh.  The original script apparently even had the lead as Luke's daughter named Kira Skywalker.

Also, when Luke see's her at the end, there is definite emotion in him, but she still doesn't know the full truth, so 1) they don't want to give it away, and 2) if you were her dad and she didn't know who you were, would you really run up to her and give her a hug?  You're a Jedi, you know she's confused, running up to her and hugging her would just make her pull away.

Anyway, that's my idea.  Only 2 YEARS LEFT TILL WE FIND OUT *cries*

[The Unknown Poster]

Isn't that exCtly what I said? Lol I agree!