Star Wars: Spoiler Thread Discussion

[Logan007]

Jyn Erso, the lead in Rogue One, is not Rey's mom.  Daisy Ridley pretty much already came out and said that in her statement.  Also, Rey is only 20 in the movie, and 30 years have passed since Return of the Jedi...so...Rey was born 10 years AFTER Jedi, not during a New Hope or Empire.  Kylo was born just after Jedi.

[Taynted_Fayth]

ok so time doesnt work out, I kinda like my vader clone idea. I\m sure they could have found some anakin DNA in that beat up old helmet, that is some how in the hands of Kylo Ren in TFA.  I'd have to, but dont want to, watch episode II again, but did anything ever happen with Kamino - the planet where they made the clones?  I know it was  removed from the archives, but clearly it was still known to some, but I dont recall the planet or the stations they made the clones ever being destroyed

[The Unknown Poster]

10 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

ok so time doesnt work out, I kinda like my vader clone idea. I\m sure they could have found some anakin DNA in that beat up old helmet, that is some how in the hands of Kylo Ren in TFA.  I'd have to, but dont want to, watch episode II again, but did anything ever happen with Kamino - the planet where they made the clones?  I know it was  removed from the archives, but clearly it was still known to some, but I dont recall the planet or the stations they made the clones ever being destroyed

I like the idea of somewhat connecting the prequel trilogy but I doubt they will ever make any major connections.  Using whatshisname who played Anakin, I can see that.  But nothing that requires one to review Attack of the Clones for plot points..  lol

I saw a video that laid out an interesting perspective on that one clip from the Rogue One trailer that showed Emperial Royal Guardsmen and a cloaked figure apparently kneeling.  The speculation was he was kneeling before a Bacta tank and it was Palpatine kneeling.  Well who would Palp kneel before?  Speculation is Snoke.

I doubt it.  But its an interesting theory. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

I got to thinking about the clone idea a little more, If Kamino was untouched with the guise of being a place to build the republic an army, and upon investigation,  Obi wan kinda "mmmm ok"'d it other then being skeptical of who the basis of the clones were on (Janga Fett) why did Palpatine just stop there and then.  When he found a burnt up and barely living Anakin on Mustafar, and he had to become mostly robotic just to live,  why not just send some dna to kamino and restore/replace him. I'd imagine a clone would still have the force in them considering they are made up of the same genomes, similar to the passing of it through your offspring

the only thing I can think of is the confliction between the sith rule of 2, which could have delayed the clone process until Vader outlived his usefulness. then the arrival of Luke further delayed it but the emperor dies before it even starts.  somewhere between jedi and TFA someone activates it, and the penisless version of anakin is born (simple genetic engineering to change Z chromosomes to Y). If Anakin/Vader had returned after the empire fell, I'm sure the rebels would have hunted him down. But with him as a girl,  who would think to give her a second thought

Edited April 18, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Good question. Maybe clones are dumbed down in a way since they did not have independent thought like TFA.

Or perhaps the Midichlorians can't be replicated via cloning.

For bringing up Midichlorians into the conversation I'd like a steak for my last meal please.

[bigg jay]

28 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

the only thing I can think of is the confliction between the sith rule of 2, 

I don't think this is an issue.  According to Yoda, there must be two, no more & no less so they are constantly grooming the next apprentice (like how Palpatine had Dooku but he started working on Anakin years earlier).   The apprentice will either overthrow the master & take on an apprentice or fail and the master needs a new one so both will have someone waiting in the wings.  They can have someone on stand by without them being Sith (like Dooku had with Ventress).

[Rich]

The rule of 2 was implemented by the sith as a way to avoid the dark years when many Sith Lords fought for power and there was basically anarchy  

With the Jedi and Sith both in disarray there is nothing to stop anyone from breaking the rule of 2, especially if the teachings have been lost over time. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

I thought about the dumbed down clones, but based off the movies they seemed fairly competent to drive vehicles, combat and communication, but also had what I'm guessing was pre-embedded directives (Order 66). I'm not familiar with how cloning works, other then you need a sample of the originals dna to reproduce, but they are supposed to be genetically perfect. If those with the force have offspring so they too have it,  I can't see there being a difference.  If a clone could wield the force and can be pre-programed to be your puppet, I would think that would be a great direction if you wanted an apprentice.  Perhaps Vader in his robotic state was weaker then Anakin in his prime, so keeping Vader around almost ensured the emperor wouldnt be taken out by his apprentice anytime soon.  

 

5 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I don't think this is an issue.  According to Yoda, there must be two, no more & no less so they are constantly grooming the next apprentice (like how Palpatine had Dooku but he started working on Anakin years earlier).   The apprentice will either overthrow the master & take on an apprentice or fail and the master needs a new one so both will have someone waiting in the wings.  They can have someone on stand by without them being Sith (like Dooku had with Ventress).

no more no less, but it's ok to have someone waiting in the wings,  wouldnt that explain why rey (if she was indeed a clone) was put on the shelf until Vader fell, and Luke joined,  but also an ace in the hole if both flopped

[The Unknown Poster]

9 minutes ago, Rich said:

The rule of 2 was implemented by the sith as a way to avoid the dark years when many Sith Lords fought for power and there was basically anarchy  

With the Jedi and Sith both in disarray there is nothing to stop anyone from breaking the rule of 2, especially if the teachings have been lost over time. 

yeah this always seemed like a silly premise.  Like what would happen if there were three Sith?  A lighting bolt from hell strikes one of them down?

[The Unknown Poster]

There is a great theory, I think it was linked here, that Rey is the reincarnated Anakin.  Its not true.  But the evidence included was pretty good.

[Rich]

8 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

yeah this always seemed like a silly premise.  Like what would happen if there were three Sith?  A lighting bolt from hell strikes one of them down?

Nothing would have happened, it is just how they operated through their teachings.

Quote

Even before Darth Bane created the rule, the Sith doctrines still rotated somewhat around the idea of two: a master and an apprentice. Some Sith temples could only be entered by a pair of Force-users. Eventually, Darth Bane would become the sole survivor of a war against the Jedi Order a millennium before the Clone Wars. Recognizing that it was Sith greed and in-fighting that led to their destruction, Bane created the Rule of Two so the Sith could operate in secret, using subterfuge to plot their revenge against the Jedi.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, Rich said:

Nothing would have happened, it is just how they operated through their teachings.

 

I was being somewhat sarcastic.  Just the idea that it was a rule that could never be broken made little sense.  It *could* be broken but it behooved the Sith master to not create any apprentices that could unite and overthrow him.

[Taynted_Fayth]

lets say that was Palpatine kneeling in that rogue one trailer, it would explain his desire to constantly surround himself with powerful apprentices. that all along, Palpatine was still the apprentice, not the master, and was looking for that back up to finally claim his spot as the top dog. They definitely made him look weak vs Windu that he has to beg anakin to save him, which he does, but with anakin being stronger then Tyrannus, Luke being stronger then Vader (i think, maybe not) but Luke never turning to the dark side,  if Palpatine had a do-over with anakin (in rey) he might have had a better outcome if anakin wasnt such a lose cannon vs Obi wan

[The Unknown Poster]

9 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

lets say that was Palpatine kneeling in that rogue one trailer, it would explain his desire to constantly surround himself with powerful apprentices. that all along, Palpatine was still the apprentice, not the master, and was looking for that back up to finally claim his spot as the top dog. They definitely made him look weak vs Windu that he has to beg anakin to save him, which he does, but with anakin being stronger then Tyrannus, Luke being stronger then Vader (i think, maybe not) but Luke never turning to the dark side,  if Palpatine had a do-over with anakin (in rey) he might have had a better outcome if anakin wasnt such a lose cannon vs Obi wan

If it's Palpatine kneeling...its very interesting.  I dont see him as having a master.  Vader was his apprentice.  if we get really fanboyish, the story Palps told of Darth Plagius is almost true, but instead if Palps killing him, he severly injured him, disfigured him and kept him alive, perhaps to taunt, perhaps to use as an advisor.  Perhaps the intention was to kill him, but Plagius truly learned the secret to immortality and didnt die.  And Plagius is Snoke.  That would certainly connect all the trilogies. 

[bigg jay]

2 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

lets say that was Palpatine kneeling in that rogue one trailer, it would explain his desire to constantly surround himself with powerful apprentices. that all along, Palpatine was still the apprentice, not the master, and was looking for that back up to finally claim his spot as the top dog. They definitely made him look weak vs Windu that he has to beg anakin to save him, which he does, but with anakin being stronger then Tyrannus, Luke being stronger then Vader (i think, maybe not) but Luke never turning to the dark side,  if Palpatine had a do-over with anakin (in rey) he might have had a better outcome if anakin wasnt such a lose cannon vs Obi wan

I always felt that was part of Palpatine's plan - he was constantly undermining the Jedi Council when he talked to Anakin, now he was showing him that they were not the righteous guardians of the galaxy they claimed to be. 

Considering Palpatine was able to fight Yoda to a draw (and Yoda was recognized as being more powerful than Mace), but gets "beat" at just the right time for Anakin to come to the rescue, my money is on a fixed fight!

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I always felt that was part of Palpatine's plan - he was constantly undermining the Jedi Council when he talked to Anakin, now he was showing him that they were not the righteous guardians of the galaxy they claimed to be. 

Considering Palpatine was able to fight Yoda to a draw (and Yoda was recognized as being more powerful than Mace), but gets "beat" at just the right time for Anakin to come to the rescue, my money is on a fixed fight!

I assumed Palps was faking being beat by Mace but as the prequels were so poorly written and directed, it wasnt very clear.  Same with his disfigurement.  Lots of speculation.  I think Lucas said it was as simple as Palps being struck with the deflected lightning that did it, which makes very little sense.  I always liked the idea that Palps was very, very old and keeping himself alive through dark side powers and his more "youthful" appearance was a facade he generated with his power.  Once revealed, he no longer had any need to keep up the facade.  And assuming it took a lot of energy to keep up the facade it was in his interest to not do so.  Also made it seem like the Jedi crippled him.

Unfortunately, the make up in SITH was so bad...so fake.  Palps' make up looked way better in JEDI.

[Taynted_Fayth]

Palpatine was one sly MoFo, guess i wouldnt be surprised by any of these possibilities.  the guy was always up to something.  I'm curious why Vader was such a stooge to him tho.  I mean when anakin says to Padme he's powerful enough to over throw him and they'd bring peace to the galaxy, did he get a big helping of humble pie getting beat by Obi Wan? seemed to arrogant to let that knock him off his high horse.  and yet, the emperor never came thru on his promise to cheat death and save padme. His suit kept him alive, but i wonder if it was possible to corrupt it as well when it was put on anakin

[The Unknown Poster]

I always thought, as a kid, that Palps was using his immense dark side power to somehow keep Anakin alive. 

[Logan007]

The thing about the Anakin clone...Rey is a girl.  Clone's are generally...well...a clone, aka an exact duplicate of the original.  Also, Rey's hair is darker then Anakin's.  But they do share similar qualities.  I'd say, same DNA, but different people.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Logan007

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

The thing about the Anakin clone...Rey is a girl.  Clone's are generally...well...a clone, aka an exact duplicate of the original.  Also, Rey's hair is darker then Anakin's.  But they do share similar qualities.  I'd say, same DNA, but different people.

Technically, you could clone a male to a female if you duplicate the X chromosome of the male that determines gender and discard the Y chromosome.  But you couldn't go the other way because you would' be able to get a Y chromosome from a female.

Though it then wouldn't be an exact copy and there would be an increased chance of birth defects.  However it would be possible.

I however find it highly unlikely they would do this.

[Taynted_Fayth]

lol ahh yes X chromosome not Z :S been quite a while since I was in biology. The Kaminoans (Cloners) on Kamino were able to rapidly grow clones into adults, except Boba who was left unaltered at Janga's request. I'm thinking they could realistically manipulate a clone anyway they saw fit. especially with how advanced technology and other sciences were in the movies.

 and my thinking was along the lines of they had some of anakin's dna stashed away for if/when the time came to replicate Anakin, but the emperor's death put it on ice for a long time.  somewhere along the way between Jedi and TFA  someone decided to green light it, but alter it (such as in the form of a woman) to throw people off the Darth Vader recognition. I'm sure if Anakin was just suddenly strutin around again people would have flipped out after all the years of terror he brought the galaxy - and keep it off the radar from the First Order. you saw how hell bent Kylo Ren became the moment he hears of her, like it becomes more of a priority then finding BB-8

again long shot guess, I just dont want her to be Lukes kid, or Kylo's brother, after Vader was revealed as Lukes father, you gotta one up yourself, and those 2 possibilities would be so predictable it would almost seem like a let down if it stayed that way. I like revelations that catch you off guard, adds more lasting impact to a film

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[FrostyWinnipeg]

The identity of Ren's parents must be a major surprise. Something ala EP5.

Wedge Antilles?

Edited April 19, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

So some spoilers have broken for Star Wars VIII that are certainly unconfirmed and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Ill post the title without a spoiler hide as I think its pretty cool and its just a title.  Star Wars: Echos of the Dark Side

So the spoilers would seem to indicate more of the "poetry" and "echos" or homage to the originals, in this case Empire.  Read at your own peril, if these are real it spoils a lot. 

Spoiler

Rey guesses Luke is her father and he replies, "No, you are my father".

This dove tails the reincarnation theory floating around.  Luke tells her he sought out the first Jedi Temple and learned that the spirit of the Chosen One has reincarnated many times, whenever the universe is thrown out of balance.  Rey is as powerful with the force as Anakin was (and why her skills paralleled young Anakin's)

Rey, like Anakin, was the product of a virgin birth.  Luke tells her "You are a child of the Force"

Luke hesitates to train her as history shows the Chosen One struggles with their power and struggles to remain on the light side and if Rey were to be turned she would be far more dangerous to the galaxy than Kylo.

Luke discussed things with the Force Ghosts of Obi Wan and Yoda, played by Frank Oz and Ewen.

Luke eventually trains her.  She has a vision where she speaks with Maz Kanata and Anakin, played by Hayden Christianson who explains that she is he but different and she is shown a scene featuring hundreds of force ghosts, implied to be previous Chosen Ones

Finn wakes up in a Resistance ship and Poe explains they are en route to the new Republic HQ so Leia can lobby for war with the First Order

The new head of the Resistance is Lord Vikram, played by Benicio Del Toro.  he and Leia disagree over how to handle things with Vikram wanting to wait for back up and Leia wanting to go to war now.

Leia doesnt trust Vikram and assigns Finn and Poe to root out spies in the Republic

Finn & Poe track down Vikram's assistant who has evidence of his conspiring with the First Order.

Leia has Vikram arrested and takes over the leadership, assigning Finn to guard the shield codes.

Finn and Vikram's assistant enter a room where they are met by Phasma who immediately takes custody of Finn and the assistant is revealed as the spy who framed Vikram.

In a nice twist, Phasma forces Finn to lower the planetary shields.

A first order fleet comes out of hyper drive and invades the planet, capturing them all.

Kylo tortures Finn using the force, knowing it will goad Rey.

Rey feels Finn's pain and wants to go help.  Luke explains his own struggle with that and how Yoda told him not to go and when he did go, it only caused more pain.  But Luke says he isnt Yoda and goes along with Rey.

 

Honestly, I can see, if that was legit, how some will be upset.  But it sounds really interesting an a new take on things.  The spoilers come from Reddit where legit spoilers have been posted before and I got them from Latino Review, a legitimate source which claimed to confirmation of said spoilers.

[Taynted_Fayth]

so this seems reasonable and follows what you thought about snoke being in that bacta tank

the part talking about the imperial royal guards got me thinking again,  because they were clones,  but were  the best of the best, what made them better then the other clones? different origin maybe?  that storm troopers can actually wield the force.  There were Cuis Clones;

Quote

"I'm impressed by how much the clones have retained of his Force abilities."

―Emperor Palpatine^[src]

The Cuis clones were six prototype clone stormtroopers, bred from the genome ofSa Cuis, a Dark Jedi who served as one of Emperor Palpatine's personal assassins. Through their progenitor, they gained a strong connection to the Force, thus making them a unique batch compared to the rest of the soldiers in theStormtrooper Corps, all of whom were cloned from the templates of ordinaryHumans at the time. Their creation and training were closely monitored by the Emperor and his apprentice, the Sith Lord Darth Vader, as part of an experiment to create a battalion of obedient clone soldiers trained in the ways of the dark side of the Force. In addition to his connection to the Force, Cuis was chosen as a template by Vader because of his sense of loyalty—a trait that the Dark Lord hoped the clones would inherit from the deceased Dark Jedi.

 

I can get behind that spoiler, but i also think my clone theory could have some merit if the writers are going to look into all aspects of the SWU

[The Unknown Poster]

Honestly, I think they will stay far away from clones.  Because how much the prequels sucked.  And also because a clone of someone feels inherently weak and lame.  In the same way many people dont like the new Kirk & Spock because they arent the "real" Kirk & Spock.

The spoiler almost seems to fanboyish but it would be in keeping with the director's style and rumors we've heard of "secret" cameos. 

In Rogue One, if they have Palps bowing to whomever (Snoke) with implications to the sequel trilogy, Ill be impressed.  Because its a way to do these "Star Wars Story" films while also adding to the saga.